Video game music [Archive] - Northern Sound Source

Marsdy

01-16-2003, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Scott Cairns:
Hi, go to; http://www.gameaudio.com (\"http://www.gameaudio.com\") - it is the site of someone who posts here (sorry cant remember there name but they know who they are images/icons/smile.gif )

IMHO there demo is EXCELLENT - truly suits the genre.

Peace, Scott. Thanks for the kind words Scott!! images/icons/smile.gif

dwdonehoo

01-16-2003, 01:04 PM

Yup, I\'m another guilty party.

Segerfalk

01-16-2003, 03:01 PM

Also in the game music biz - mostly small productions for cartoonetwork.com right now, but that´ll hopefully change soon. Also did some commodore 64 game music back in the good old days (90-91)

Ed Lima

01-16-2003, 03:03 PM

And another composer/sound designer here.

dSonicka

01-16-2003, 05:06 PM

i\'ve worked in games now for 8 years? any of you guys work or have you worked at game companies in the past. i know will L used to work at ion storm....

i used to work at looking glass studios here in boston...until they went under 2 years ago (the never ending story of game companies). now i\'m freelance

any of you going to E3? would be another cool place to meet up with people!

www.dsonicaudio.com (\"http://www.dsonicaudio.com\")

Joris de Man

01-16-2003, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by dSonicka:
i\'ve worked in games now for 8 years? any of you guys work or have you worked at game companies in the past. i know will L used to work at ion storm....

i used to work at looking glass studios here in boston...until they went under 2 years ago (the never ending story of game companies). now i\'m freelance

any of you going to E3? would be another cool place to meet up with people!

www.dsonicaudio.com (\"http://www.dsonicaudio.com\") I had the dubious pleasure of working for the Bitmap Brothers in London, if you remember them...
They were very popular in the 16 bit age and guys I really looked up to; they did some excellent games like Speedball, Xenon 2, Cadaver and Chaos Engine.
When I joined them they were moving on to PC development (mind you, this was a while ago:), but unfortunately weren\'t as succesful on PC as they were on the ST and Amiga.

Cheers,

Joe

M Ragan

01-16-2003, 10:40 PM

Me too! Me too! (5+ years on staff at EA Seattle, currently indy).

£e petit Prïnçe

01-17-2003, 03:13 AM

Yup, Gameaudio images/icons/wink.gif

VincePro

01-17-2003, 03:26 AM

Wow...what a response! I see that many of you are well accomplished in the video game music industry. I\'m just about to get started and would like any input or advice from all of you! I thank you for your time in advance and am really looking for your guidance. Here are some concerns I have:

1.Assuming you can produce high quality music, just how difficult is it to land a job (getting paid to provide music for a game)?

2. I only compose music, I do not know anything about programming interactive music that changes with what happens on screen..is this a requirement?

3. How do I know how much to charge on a project? What are some of the amounts you guys have made on projects?

4. I am recording my music into a Protools Digi001 rig..is this high enough quality to deliver to the companies? What kind of final format do most video game companies want the music delivered in? If I compose and record the music into my Digi001 rig, and then have it mixed and mastered at a professional studio, will that do? What else am I not considering?

5. I\'m sending out DVDs of my music to video game companies as demos...will this tactic work?

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR SUGGESTIONS. I am really curious to hear about your experiences.

Hasen

01-17-2003, 04:52 AM

Vince, buy this book: The Complete Guide to Game Audio by Aaron Marks. It\'ll answer all your questions and more. images/icons/smile.gif

VincePro

01-17-2003, 05:16 AM

Hasen,

I\'ve actually checked out that book..I\'d just like to hear it from you guys as well. thanks!

MDesigner

01-17-2003, 08:56 AM

Vince

I highly suggest you join G.A.N.G. (http://www.audiogang.org) - stop on over and take a look around. It\'s founded by Tommy Tallarico, quite a huge name in the game audio biz.

lex

01-17-2003, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by MDesigner:
Vince

I highly suggest you join G.A.N.G. (http://www.audiogang.org) - stop on over and take a look around. It\'s founded by Tommy Tallarico, quite a huge name in the game audio biz. MDesigner,

Would you be so kind to tell us a bit more about why is G.A.N.G. good for you?

Alex

Adam Frechette

01-17-2003, 05:01 PM

\"It\'s founded by Tommy Tallarico, quite a huge name in the game audio biz.\"

Hehe never even heard of him. Anyways, I am also doing music for a game (1st game). Hopefully it sells alot.

dwdonehoo

01-17-2003, 05:28 PM

Just a quick note here. Strangely, I get a lot of email from would-be game composers asking \"How do I get started?\" There is no easy answer. Basically, you are in-house or you are indie. If you are in-house or wanna be, the goal is clear-cut. If you are indie, the short answer is (if we can assume you have the chops) you have to build up your business and pay your dues, and there is no shortcut. I know composers already established as tv and movie composers and want in on games: but they have to start at ground zero too and pay their dues. Like much of media, its who you know and what your rep is in your target industry that counts. You have to get past the old Catch 22: you can\'t get a job without experience, and you cannot get experience without a job. But that is the nature of paying dues. Be prepared to spend as much time developing your business as composing, at least till you build up a rep.
So, heed the advice here: read the Aaron Marks book, join G.A.N.G., do a search of the forum and read everything (do that here as well). Except for dumb blind luck, there is only the hard way for the indie. In-house composer is the \"easy\" way.

KingIdiot

01-17-2003, 06:10 PM

I worked at Galoob, and SONY, but not in music/sound.

I freelance compose now, mostly for SONY

1 - Depending on location and your networking skills (and network in general), it can be very difficult or relatively easy.

2 - Its not a requirement, but learnign this can helpy ou get into Niche markets, which isn\'t a bad thing, considering it guarantees you wont be fighting everyone who ahs ACID for a gig. I jsut finished an interactive music project on Sly Cooper. Difficult to write for, and not too difficult to program for (but I\'m a geek).

3 - 5 cents a minute images/icons/wink.gif actually you shouldn\'t charge less than $500 a minute of audio if you can, tho thats really low balling it in most cases, and should be reserved for \"you\'re a friend and have been good to me\" points of life, with \"get me a party pass\" tacked on to it. Or if its a game you want to do out of love for the project (in which case money prolly wont matter as much)

Really what you should do, is calculate hw long it will take you to do the gig, and try and find a rough figure from setting an hourly rate multiplied by how many hours you think it will take you.

4 - Yes, should be fine, but you can get better too. Depends on the project. and... Depends on the project, but it should in cases where you\'ll be delivering music as Wave Files, or CD Audio.

5 - Most of the itme, no....but if you\'re really good, and you\'re lucky images/icons/smile.gif

apessino

01-17-2003, 07:40 PM

Well.. considering that no one is giving the one bit of advice I would give first to anyone wanting to work in our industry, I will chime in with it: PLAY THE GAMES! images/icons/cool.gif

I mean it.. very, very few composers working in the interactive entertainment industry give a flying CRAP about the games.. they would much rather be scoring movies, and it shows. It\'s very common to talk to composers who want to be working on games (you know.. until a movie opportunity comes along..) and yet know absolutely nothing about them.

If you want to be taken seriously by game developers try to be one of them and gain some knowledge. And I am not talking just about \"who\'s hot\" and \"who\'s not\" in the industry type of knowledge, but actual GAMEPLAY issues and experience. If your potential employers \"sense\" that you are a gamer at heart, you will have a much better chance of getting work.

Good luck.. images/icons/wink.gif

A-

--------
Andrea G. Pessino (not female, just Italian)
Blizzard Entertainment

apessino@blizzard.com

MDesigner

01-17-2003, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by Adam Frechette:
\"It\'s founded by Tommy Tallarico, quite a huge name in the game audio biz.\"

Hehe never even heard of him. Anyways, I am also doing music for a game (1st game). Hopefully it sells alot. He pitches in on a lot of different stuff, I can\'t even keep track of anymore. To name some games I\'m sure he scored: MDK, Earthworm Jim (1 & 2), Terminator, Mortal Kombat Trilogy, NHL FaceOff \'98, Madden Football. To name some stuff I think he pitched in on but it wasn\'t too publicized that he did so: BloodRayne, James Bond Nightfire(maybe I\'m thinking of the wrong Bond game). If you get G4TV (a cable channel dedicated to gaming), you can catch him on there.. he has his own show called Judgment Day (game reviews).

PS: Good luck, Adam.. let us know how it goes! Can you talk about the game at all? What is it?

MDesigner

01-17-2003, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by lex:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MDesigner:
Vince

I highly suggest you join G.A.N.G. (http://www.audiogang.org) - stop on over and take a look around. It\'s founded by Tommy Tallarico, quite a huge name in the game audio biz. MDesigner,

Would you be so kind to tell us a bit more about why is G.A.N.G. good for you?

Alex <hr /></blockquote>G.A.N.G. is a great way to network with other people in the game audio business, both amateurs and pros alike. Amateurs can get advice from people tightly established in the industry. Jobs are posted to the forum more frequently than I\'ve seen anywhere else as far as audio related work goes. Other benefits I don\'t want to mention specifically, but a certain major sample library is discounted if you\'re a G.A.N.G. member. You get discounts on other audio hardware, and higherups at G.A.N.G. are currently checking into getting discounts at major sample houses that YOU shop at regularly (sweet!). They\'re also looking into getting group health insurance as well, but need more members.

Did I miss anything? Any other G.A.N.G. members want to add anything?

dwdonehoo

01-17-2003, 10:44 PM

\"I will chime in with it: PLAY THE GAMES!\" A funny but good point. He\'s right on about a few others. Some composers are \"diverse\", but, for example, unlike some, my key focus is games. I have hundreds and have just completed a punishing finishing session of Serious Sam SE (yes, I cheated). But there are now movie and TV composer wanting to cross over to games: one reason is that in 2001 movies were an 8 billion dollar business, and games were a 12 billion dollar business. Somebody is getting paid. Still, if the job pays, I will not turn my nose up on anything, while some may have an agenda. A good music whore should not care. images/icons/wink.gif

Crispin

01-17-2003, 11:39 PM

Thought I\'d chime in here too.

Worked in games for 8 years. Little bits of film and tv too.

If you\'re interested in reading a long winded account of how I got in etc. feel free to go here:

http://www.igda.org/breakingin/profile_crispin_hands.htm (\"http://www.igda.org/breakingin/profile_crispin_hands.htm\") (excuse the picture, I\'d been playing with the wrong settings on the microwave)

or here:
http://www.gaming-age.com/cgi-bin/specials/special.pl?spec=insider1&pagenum=1 (\"http://www.gaming-age.com/cgi-bin/specials/special.pl?spec=insider1&pagenum=1\")

Incidentally, I also heartily agree with the comment about playing games. Crucial! If you\'re not passionate about gaming, you probably shouldn\'t be composing for them because it will show in several different ways. Stick to film.

King - gotta say it man, your music for Sly completely RAWWWWKED!!! Well done!

Anyways, hope the info in the links is somewhat useful to you VincePro. Other than that, King and DWDonehoo both pretty much nailed their respective points.

Good luck,
Crispin
http://www.stereonaut.com (\"http://www.stereonaut.com\")

Joris de Man

01-18-2003, 09:19 AM

Well, my 2 cents:

-Investigate the strength and weaknesses of the various platforms out there (such as PC and PS2).
Knowing something about how the respective platforms work will give you a better understanding of how your music will be used and heard.
-Get used to working with limitations (King knows what I mean:) with regards to instrumentation (we want it as a midifile with a soundfont), memory (it has to fit in 800k) and polphony (32 voices max!).
One of my latest project was 12 tunes for a Gameboy Advanced title, which all had to fit into a 900k soundbank (including soundfx) and 6 voices polyphony. It was fun! images/icons/tongue.gif
-Find out more about how sound is used in games...what triggers it? How is it triggered?
When sounds are used with animation, is it one big loop or seperate events triggered at certain frames in the animation, etc.?
-Play a lot of games. It will give you more ideas and inspiration...
Some of my personal favourites:
PC:
-the Fallout series by Black Isle/Interplay; fantastic atmospheric soundtrack with very professional sounddesign, and a fab game to boot.
-Diablo 2
Some pretty offbeat music for a game that sets a good mood, with nice x-fading between levels for a continous/seamless atmosphere
PS2
-Metal Gear Solid 2
Harry Gregson Williams MV style soundtrack gives this a cinematic feel. Good use of event triggered music.
-GTA3 and 4
Nice use of licensed pop music, which sets the tone and era for the game. Sounddesign is ok, but servers the game well.

Cheers,

Joris

Hasen

01-19-2003, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by MDesigner:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Adam Frechette:
\"It\'s founded by Tommy Tallarico, quite a huge name in the game audio biz.\"

Hehe never even heard of him. Anyways, I am also doing music for a game (1st game). Hopefully it sells alot. He pitches in on a lot of different stuff, I can\'t even keep track of anymore. To name some games I\'m sure he scored: MDK, Earthworm Jim (1 & 2), Terminator, Mortal Kombat Trilogy, NHL FaceOff \'98, Madden Football. To name some stuff I think he pitched in on but it wasn\'t too publicized that he did so: BloodRayne, James Bond Nightfire(maybe I\'m thinking of the wrong Bond game). <hr /></blockquote>You are - Nightfire was scored by none other than NS poster Ed Lima. images/icons/smile.gif Tommy Tallarico is indeed the biggest name in game music so I\'m surprised if anyone in the business hasn\'t heard of him.

KingIdiot

01-19-2003, 03:57 PM

Just a side note about TT, Its Tommy Tallarico Studio\'s that does the most music for games, not TT himself. If it was, He\'s got a crazy secret about stopping time. I believe one year TTStudios did something like 80 titles or something.

and Thanks Crispin! I listened to a couple tracks again. Some not as bad as I thought for 400-500k sample banks images/icons/smile.gif

Ed Lima

01-19-2003, 04:47 PM

Thanks for the props, Hasen. Yeah, I scored and sound designed \"James Bond Nightfire\" for the PC. The console versions were handled by a house in Europe. The Bond game that Tommy Tallarico did, Sam, is \"Goldeneye\" for the Nintendo 64.

VincePro

01-19-2003, 05:56 PM

Thanks for the great responses guys..Since all I can provide is music, (no programming, sound effects) does that hurt my chances of finding work a great deal?

Hasen

01-20-2003, 04:06 AM

Originally posted by VincePro:
Thanks for the great responses guys..Since all I can provide is music, (no programming, sound effects) does that hurt my chances of finding work a great deal? In short, yes. In fact you may find that sound fx are in general even more sought after than music and that its your ability to provide sound fx that gets you the gigs where music is also involved.

KingIdiot

01-20-2003, 01:20 PM

Alot of it is Right place Right time. You\'d be amazed at how many in house guys I see getting CD\'s that jsut STACK UP, but its also these guys who tell me it\'d be great to have another FX guy, we jsut dont have the budget.

being a jack of all trades is a good thing tho. Understanding some sound design elements really helps since you\'ll be able to work with multiple formats other than streaming for music. Niche markets... gettting good at them can mean more steady work, just keep up on the changes.

Imagine all the guys in the same boat as you (know how to provide music and thats it), the odds are against you. Know imagine if you know some processes taht these guys dont, the odd\'s are still against you, but they are better odds images/icons/tongue.gif