Which drum sounds better on this tune?

[sporter]

[christianb]

Ok I\'ll bite....
definitely the second one.
Much more ...how shall I say....ooomph


cb

[Joanne Babunovic]

Sport,
Where the goodies go?

[sporter]

Sorry about that...here they are again:


The first:

http://www.sportersstudio.com/Songs/CS1.mp3 (\"http://www.sportersstudio.com/Songs/CS1.mp3\")

THe second:

http://www.sportersstudio.com/Songs/CS2.mp3 (\"http://www.sportersstudio.com/Songs/CS2.mp3\")

[D.DiAnda]

Personally, I like the 1st one. It just sounds a lot clearer to me.

[Alan Russell]

Sporter,

to my ears they sound like one. Did you add any EQ to them or are they in their raw state. Are they a GM Midi - kit.

Get back..I\'ll have more to say..

Alan Russell

[Ray Lindsley]

Sporter, I like the first one. AM I wrong or is that one dryer? Great tune, too.

[His Frogness]

Yeah, the first one.

The tune\'s reminiscent of a 60\'s style spy tune...or maybe a surf tune. Either way, it harkens back to the days where everything was recorded with a room mic. I think that\'s why the first one sounds better to me. The second one sounds as if it was added to the environment while the first seems to be part of the environment.

You should sell that tune to Smashmouth...hehe

[christianb]

Sporter,

Holy ukulele Dano...surfs up.

my vote has to go with #1

cb

[Larry Negro]

Second one....its trashier, though the first is ok too just not original sounding.

Larry

[Joanne Babunovic]

Hi Sporter,
Drums in the first seem to better fit the feel of the guitars and tune.

Here\'s a good test: play the middle part where more instruments come in and ask them if the drums need to be bigger there. My guess is they will say they sound ok there. I think (although they don\'t know it) they are referring more to the arrangment and solo type playing of the guitar without much pad or backup occuring in the beginning. Possibly get little bigger sound by adding a few short/subtle guitar chords in the beginning or maybe spurts of those organs they used back in the california 60\'s. I think you could then get away with allowing the solo to stand as it is when it hits again, and have a nice effect.

[sporter]

Thanks for the feedback!!!!

I\'m trying to do a Ventures style surf tune. The first one is Pure Drums \"Street Kit\" with very little processing. I was told the drums were too \"small\"...not in yer face enough. So I remixed using Purrrfect drums with tons of ambience, and and a little more overall reverb.

I dunno, I liked the first one, but I\'m being told the second is more commercial...The whole thing just needs to be \"bigger\" somehow.

I really appreciate you guys listening!

[sporter]

Originally posted by Larry Negro:
Second one....its trashier, though the first is ok too just not original sounding.

Larry <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Yes, and I think trashier is closer to what they are looking for.

Joanne, you\'re right and I had thought about spicing things up with more instrumentation fo just more notes, especially at the front..but they specifically asked for bigger \"in your face\" drums.

When someone asked you for a \"bigger sound\", what specifically do you do? Stereo widening comes to mind...I\'m thinking more in terms of production/engineering rather than performance.

[Joanne Babunovic]

Sporter,

There\'s a commercial running for Provachol (sp), where this 50+ woman is surfing. Music is almost identical to what you\'re doing. Drums had a little more snare to them, and in addition to the lead guitar, they had a percussion-like, fast staccato \"dry pick\" of another guitar in the back ground - which added lots to the overall percussion ambience.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Hi Sporter,

I like the first kit a lot better than the second one. The added reverb in the second one doesn\'t take you anywhere the first one doesn\'t, but seems to disconnect the kit from the ensemble a bit.

The thing I think would make the drums \"bigger\" is a lot more aggressive, forward-leaning groove. The part you have there is either playing boom chick boom chick with a ride, or a fill. Forgive the awkward scat notation, but I think you want a groove more like Ba-Boom - -Chick - - Chick Ba-Boom - - Chick - - Chick. And not so much difference in what is groove and what is fill. It\'s hard to describe in words, but the feeling you want \"leans forward,\" rather than \"sitting back.\" Also, you might picture a drummer in your head, and try to avoid a part where his hands are pretty much in one place at any one time. Functionally, that\'s using not only a ride cymbal, but other cymbals and drums to keep the \"ride\" part flowing through the kit instead of sticking on one voice.

It rarely works to add lots of reflection \"tail\" to a drum part to make it bigger, unless it\'s some kind of Spector-esque \"wall.\" Most of the time, not even then. You want to perceive room and walls, but not reverb, unless it\'s a very specific effect. It\'s more a matter of saturation, partly in the amount of \"kit\" you have sounding at any given time, but partly in the way you saturate the track in post production. Tape and even amp simulators are great for putting some \"hair\" on a drum sound, and Purrrfect Drums definitely can use some hair when doing this kind of tune. An engineer of his era would have definitely saturated the tape to get \"the sound.\" Definitely you don\'t want that kick sound in the second mix for this kind of tune--it\'s too low and clicky, and it\'s not the way drums were tuned in that genre or time. Kits were a lot thinner walled, and toms were tuned more open and resonant--however the thinner shells made them a lot less purely ringy--they had more thud and smack. Snares, however, were tuned a lot more like today than the horrible 80s where people started playing those godawful deep snare drums with tons of reverb. Bleeaaaachhh!! Gives me shivers.

At the risk of showing my testosterone, if you imagine that virtual drummer sitting on stage, eyes on that gyrating girl that\'s eyelocked right back, and he\'s thinking--Pull your shirt up, pull your shirt up, pull your shirt up, I\'m gonna groove you till you do it, come on baby, you\'re gonna do it, come on, come on, I know you want to, come on, show me--I think you get a part a lot closer to what will cook that tune. You want to imagine that he\'s working up a sweat, getting physical, and trying to close that deal!! , drugs, and rock and roll, baby.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

In listening again, the fills I\'m talking about are the more internal \"end of phrase\" ones, rather than the intentional \"Third Rock from the Sun\" things. You might check your piano roll there, and make sure the groove isn\'t coming in late after the fill. I wouldn\'t suggest overtly quantizing--just making sure nothing is impeding the forward-propulsion of the groove.

[Markus S]

One more vote for the first one.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

My version of Purrrfect Drums may be an older one than yours...I didn\'t remember seeing a \"street kit\" and sure enough, the one I was thinking of is \"Small Swift Kit.\" You might try the kick which is mapped to C# rather than the one mapped to C---it\'s a lot rounder with less of that really low tone. Also, just putting a highpass in the chain, and running it up as you\'re playing the track back might help.

[sporter]

Thanks again for listening and commenting.

Bruce, I\'m thinking you\'re probably right on that the feel...the pattern is not aggressive enough. I believe on this one I used slicey drummer...which I like but I\'m getting a more laid back feel where I need more energy. I need a more live feel.

Joanne, this is for a commercial spot similar to what you\'re describing, only it\'s a lone surfer dude. I\'m hoping I can get it the way the producer wants it...we\'ll see

Thanks again..time to eat now... images/icons/grin.gif

[sporter]

Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:
My version of Purrrfect Drums may be an older one than yours...I didn\'t remember seeing a \"street kit\" and sure enough, the one I was thinking of is \"Small Swift Kit.\" You might try the kick which is mapped to C# rather than the one mapped to C---it\'s a lot rounder with less of that really low tone. Also, just putting a highpass in the chain, and running it up as you\'re playing the track back might help. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Bruce, the \"Street Kit\" is from Pure Drums.

[Joanne Babunovic]

Step away from the Thanksgiving table, Sporter.

Just like there\'s \"no crying in baseball\", there\'s \"no eating until a composition is right\" images/icons/smile.gif