Need help on buying a new keyboard!!!!

[Jared Hudson]

Ok,

So I can\'t stand using the friggin mouse anymore, make that four years of agony, and I desperately need a nice 88 key, weighted keyboard, along with some great sounds, midi functions, and overall versatility. I REALLY wanted the Korg Triton Workstation, but $3400 is just too much for my budget. I\'m trying to compromise, and look for a downgrade, possibly, half as much. My budget would hang around $1500 give or take. I thought that maybe the Korg Triton LE would be a great alternative, but I know there are many other great brands besides Korg. Does anyone know what the popular keyboards are among digital composers? I noticed in a picture of Bill Brown\'s studio that he uses a Korg Triton LE. I\'ve been in music stores and played on both the Workstation and LE. The salesman kept telling me \"OMG teh workstation is better, sounds, and features.\" But I don\'t have that kind of cash.

I also hear the Yamaha Motif series is excellent. Does Roland or Kurzweil make anything worth looking at in that price range? I\'m really looking for \"BANG FOR BUCK\" here. I want to get the most features, best sounds, etc out of the keyboard until I have the money for the full Korg Triton. Anybody with experience around a great keyboard among these brands, or even others I haven\'t listed, please do tell. This is a big purchase, and am very serious about the decision I make. I will take all your comments into serious consideration. Thanks for your time!

Jared Hudson

P.S. Is there any great sites or stores with incredible prices? Would a music retailer like Guitar Center or Sam Ash negotiate prices on a keyboard, or are they strictly priced?

[greatzed]

Wow, man, FOUR years?! I know how you feel, but I\'ve only been without my keyboard for 1 year. I can\'t imagine FOUR! images/icons/shocked.gif

I use an old Korg M1, and it has synth action, but GOOD synth action. It doesn\'t have a mod-wheel, and it doesn\'t have 88 keys, but it does have some good classic sounds. The horn sounds are really good considering how old the thing is (around 13 years, I think). You could probably pick one up for 300 bucks.

Have you looked at the Kurzweil PC series? I\'ve heard good things about those, and they\'re around the 1,500 dollar range. I think they have a good amount of sound banks, too.

[Ken-P]

Yamaha S-90 or Roland XV-88, maybe...

[Alexcremers]

It\'s cheaper to buy an 88 weighted keyboard without sounds. You just buy sounds for your harddisk. They always sound better too.

------------
Alex Cremers

[His Frogness]

Well I use a Kort Triton Pro at work, just the 76 key one. It\'s not the most recent model. I think it\'s the first one after the Trinity. You would have a lot of fun with that keyboard. IT has a lot of toys. More toys than it\'s polyphony can handle actually, but really fun nonetheless. You could get a used one of the older Trtions for $1400.00 or so on Ebay.


However, I would highly recommend the Alesis QS8, or QS8.2. (check it out here (\"http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=031206174133068104143251580329/g=key/search/detail/base_pid/705536/#sound\")). It\'s got a VERY nice feel to it, the piano sounds are incredible, so are the organs, and it\'s got some cool ways to mix sounds, plus you can use Soundbridge to download free sounds over the internet, and there\'s a lot of them (you need an expansion card to do that). Brand new they\'re $1000.00 and you can find the older QS8 for probably 5 to $600.00. Talk about a bang for your buck. It also works great as a midi controller. The interface leaves a bit to be desired, but what keyboard doesn\'t when compared to the Triton. I have a QS8 at home and it will forever be the keyboard I play on and use to control my rack gear.

Edit: Regarding where to go, musiciansfriend.com has most gear you\'ll be looking at and it\'s owned by Guitar Center (they bought em out) so their prices are competitive and you\'ll save tax if you don\'t live in Cali.

Edit 2: One thing that makes the Triton so invaluable is that every controller it has on it is programmable. The pitch-bend wheel, mod wheel, ribbon slider and 4 knobs are totally programmable. It also has an IMMENSE amount of effects, and every parameter of every effect can be routed to one of those controllers. The QS8 doesn\'t have a ribbon slider which I\'ve used a lot on the Triton. The QS8 does have 4 regular sliders that are programmable though. K, I\'m done now images/icons/smile.gif

[His Frogness]

One more thing. It irritated me that The Triton didn\'t have any digital outs. They put digital out on their rack-mount Tritons, but not on the keyboard models. I think the new ones have them now, but that was a big bummer for me images/icons/frown.gif

[sporter]

The Yamaha P250 works great for me. I keep a little Roland PC200 for when I don\'t want the weighted 88 feel (which is almost never). The P250 has a lot of features, plus the piano sound is very expressive...the other sounds are just so so. You do get a GM setup, so you can play midi files and do mock ups and such.

For 88 and weighted, Yamaha gets it right..IMO of course.

[Jared Hudson]

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys. I will consider them, although I keep pressuring myself to possibly strive for the full Triton. I find it funny how so many people are praising the Triton as they talk about the lesser keyboards. It\'s like Triton is king, and everything else is the peasants. HAHA! I\'ll keep looking around. Any more comments or suggestions would be great! Thanks.

Jared

[Alexcremers]

Listen to me and Chocotrax. The sounds are poor and out of fashion before you can say Triton

------------
Alex Cremers

[Alexcremers]

If you buy a 88 weighted soundless keyboard you save money. With that money you can buy far better sounds than what the Triton houses.

------------
Alex Cremers

[Marsdy]

I agree with Alex and Chocotrax.

For the price of an 88 note Triton, you could get a cheap Studiologic controller and some amazing libraries and softsynths.

Instead of the Triton pianos you could have a PMI Bosendorfer and a Scarbee Rhodes, instead of the orchestra samples, GPO or EWQSLO Silver or mabye even Gold or VSL Opus 1, for the pads and wierd synth stuff, Atmosphere, NI Pro 53 or G-media oddity for the analog synth sounds, Trilogy for the basses. OK so maybe that\'s starting to add up to more than the cost of a Triton but you get the idea.

[Sharon S]

Hello

I have the same problem ,I\'m also looking for 88 weighted controler.I do agree with Alex Cremers and Chocotrax for getting only a contoler.

Alex Cremer wrote :

If you buy a 88 weighted soundless keyboard you save money. With that money you can buy far better sounds than what the Triton houses.
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Alex I was thinking to get a studiologic sl880
I looking for a close as posible piano weighted keyboard ,cause I\'m startied to get piano leasson again.

So any off you guy\'s ,what will be good and if one of others studiologic keyboard better than sl880 and why.Also is there a better controler by yamaha or others companys.

Thanks

p.s. Jared Hudson you will enjoy from contoler +sampler combo for the long piriod .

[Alexcremers]

Sharon, here\'s a thread about the SL-880.

click with mouse and read (\"http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=006023#000000\")

------------
Alex Cremers

[dnortana]

An excellent controller is the Kurzweil K2500. Pitch bend, mod wheel, eight sliders, two ribbon controllers, breath controller input, ccpedal input, inputs for a couople of pedal switches, etc, etc.

I have a K2500XS, 88 weighted keys, it has all the control features you could possibly ask for - alas, I now rarely use it for the sounds, since Gigastudio, Kontakt, sample libraries and soft-synths (like Atmosphere) have pretty much taken over.

You might just find a good deal on a used Kurzweil, worth looking into, at least.

In any event, I agree with the guys above, what matters today is controller capability in a master keyboard controller, not the onboard - and soon to be outdated- sounds.

Trond

[J. Whaley]

I\'ll echo the ring of buy a controller. I use an older Roland A-90. But I never use any of the sounds in it. The Studio Logic is quite good. Also Yamaha has a few controllers that would be worth the price - plus you get some okay sounds. There\'s one in particular I\'m thinking of (although I can\'t remember the number) that is really small but a full 88 keys. It\'s great for gigs cause it\'s got decent sounds, but works great for studio too. Cost is around $1k.


If you were to get a studio logic or cheap yamaha board you could save money and buy plugs and other sounds to round out your arsonal. For some of the bells and whistles the Triton provides you could get Xphraze from Steinberg for $199. Also I\'d say get a Karma for the bells rather then a Triton. If you really want the triton, you can always buy a triton rack later and get all the same sounds without dropping $3500. I have a friend with a Triton 88 and he hates it cause it\'s so bulky.

Also steinberg is about to release another VST that has a bunch of bread and butter sounds. For a couple hundred you could get that and cover what the triton would give you. I wouldn\'t push for a triton.

Also, the coolness of the triton is several years old now. It\'s not the latest and greateset that it use to be.


J-

[Rich Pell]

The Yamaha S-80 (88 Weighted keys)is a great controller and fairly affordable since the S-90 came out. Its also great for assigning CC#`s to it to control VSTI`s.

[Jared Hudson]

Ok, I think I may have got ahead of myself. I had thought that if I bought the Triton, it would cover me on about every angle (rock, pop, r&b, etc) but orchestral. But as you guys are putting it, if I got a great 88 key controller for 2/3\'s cheaper, than I could spend oodles of money on samples to run through it that are way higher quality anyway. I already planned to get the Steinway B piano for Gigastudio afterwards. It would really relieve me if I didn\'t have to spend $3400, and put in overtime hours to pay off the loan (I\'d be going through a credit union). Ok, so I think I\'ve made the choice to NOT get the Triton. I\'d feel so much better on a stress level to save that money.

So here\'s the new question:

What is the best damn 88, weighted keyboard, with a great controller and wonderful feel? And do some keyboards have more touch response levels than others? I\'m looking for at least 64 note polyphony, and 5 velocities (or if that would even matter with Gigastudio). Again, BANG FOR BUCK. Is there an incredible one for around 1K? If so, then I\'d spend another grand on some great samples to cover myself. (Steinway B, Atmosphere, SI Mini, etc).

Again, thanks for the suggestions so far, and I\'m glad I started this thread now. Seems to be quite useful. Anymore suggestions would be great!

Jared

[Bela D Media]

Old question:

Does anyone make an 88 or 74 with synth touch and after touch via key press?

FB

[Scott Cairns]

Jared, I havent read through this whole thread but how important are weighted keys to you?

Unless you are a classically trained pianist you may be paying a lot extra for something you dont really need.

Obvoiusly you want something with a nice action when you play, but amongst my top priorities would be plenty of octaves and heaps of sliders to assign CC\'s.

[Scott Cairns]

Does anyone make an 88 or 74 with synth touch and after touch via key press?<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Frank, I have the Roland A-37 controller. It\'s 76 note and has aftertouch. Problem is it has only one joystick and one slider.

I ended up buying a seperate midi controller.

[Jared Hudson]

Originally posted by Scott Cairns:
Jared, I havent read through this whole thread but how important are weighted keys to you?

Unless you are a classically trained pianist you may be paying a lot extra for something you dont really need.

Obvoiusly you want something with a nice action when you play, but amongst my top priorities would be plenty of octaves and heaps of sliders to assign CC\'s. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I am very concise about wanting weighted keys. I don\'t want anything but. I\'m not classically trained, but I do well for making stuff up, and playing shorts tunes I can think up. I\'ve taken piano courses at college, and have been playing around on piano since I could reach the stool. Weighted is a MUST. I tend to play better than on those nasty plastic keys.

[J. Whaley]

Jared are you saying you want something with at least 64 voice polyphony as a controller? Or a controller with sounds that has at least 64 voice?

If you just get a controller, polyphony isn\'t a problem as that\'s based on where your sounds are triggered. So Giga with 120 Polyphony would be your polyohony limit. With VST usually each instance provides a new set of polyphony.


If I didn\'t need a keyboard with sounds I\'d look at a Studio Logic board. I think you can get a great controller for less then $1k. Or that Yamaha board I mentioned would include sounds for about $1k. I think it\'s the P-90.

[Bela D Media]

Originally posted by Scott Cairns:
</font><blockquote><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><hr /><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Does anyone make an 88 or 74 with synth touch and after touch via key press?<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Frank, I have the Roland A-37 controller. It\'s 76 note and has aftertouch. Problem is it has only one joystick and one slider.

I ended up buying a seperate midi controller. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I have the Radium61 and it\'s very cool but no aftertouch via key press.

So you are saying use the Roland to play and the Radium to control?

Whats the Roland going for?

[Scott Cairns]

So you are saying use the Roland to play and the Radium to control?<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Frank, I dont have a radium. My Roland A-37 is a controller with keys and i use the UC-33 (\"http://www.evolution.co.uk/company/news_ucc33e.htm\") (just a box of faders and knobs really) for midi CC\'s.

Best,

Scott.

[Jared Hudson]

Would a Yamaha P60 be good along with a UC-33e, or would that be pointless? The P60 is 88 weighted, high quality, but doesn\'t have all the midi controlling functions. As we discussed earlier, sounds on the keyboard are pretty much pointless, so it wouldn\'t matter how barebones the P60 was. The UC-33e would cover any midi controlling functions, and this all falls around $1000, which allows me to spend lots on samples. Any takes on this?

EDIT: Oh wait...it has only 32 note polyphony, but then again, this doesn\'t matter right? It\'d all be running through Gigastudio with my nice 160 polyphony.

Jared

[Scott Cairns]

Jared, certainly if the action and \"playability\" is a big factor you may have to choose the controller that gives you that first and foremost. Then buying a dedicated controller like the UC-33 will give you full midi control.

Unless, someone out there knows a good controller that gives you all the options. images/icons/smile.gif

Man, I should be getting a comission from Evolution, I\'m always recommending the UC-33. images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[Jared Hudson]

Originally posted by Scott Cairns:
Jared, certainly if the action and \"playability\" is a big factor you may have to choose the controller that gives you that first and foremost. Then buying a dedicated controller like the UC-33 will give you full midi control.

Unless, someone out there knows a good controller that gives you all the options. images/icons/smile.gif

Man, I should be getting a comission from Evolution, I\'m always recommending the UC-33. images/icons/rolleyes.gif <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Scott,

Yeah. Here\'s what I\'m saying. The Yamaha P60 is a very barebones keyboard with 88 weighted keys. It doesn\'t have hardly any midi controlling on it. That is why I would buy the UC-33 to go with it. This would work with the P60 fine, and plug into my soundcard right? So...I have the keyboard, and all the midi controlling I need. The keyboard\'s 32 polyphony is irrelevant cause I\'ll run every sample from my computer in Gigastudio, therefore giving me 160 polyphony right?

So I would buy the P60 and UC-33 for under 1K, therefore having oodles of money for samples. Is this a plausible attempt at starting out wisely? Is there anything I\'m missing that would bite me in the *** later?

Jared

[His Frogness]

FINE JARED!!! JUST GO BUY WHATEVER YOU WANT!!!! *runs off crying*


That\'s why I was trying to plug the QS8. Just keep it in mind. Go price out all the stuff these guys suggest, and if it\'s 7 to 800, great deal. If it\'s more than that though, you could get the QS8 for 1 grand. 88 weighted, which has some nice sounds in it, 4 assignable sliders, 3 assignable pedals, and a freakin serial port which I have no idea what it does. I forgot.

[Alexcremers]

The Frogster might have a point there. The Alesis QS8 keyboard is made by the same company that makes Studiologic. And it\'s going off the shelf for half the price now.

------------
Alex Cremers

[marco b]

Originally posted by Bela D Media:
Old question:

Does anyone make an 88 or 74 with synth touch and after touch via key press?

FB <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">What about this one: Studiologic TMK 88,
ultra cheap and light-weight 88-keys!
images/icons/tongue.gif

[marco b]

Hi Jared!
Get Yamaha KX88, I got it and it\'s great! images/icons/tongue.gif
Looks good and is very heavy-weighted!
Actually, when you\'re used to it, you
don\'t want to play with any other keyboard.
I just went to local music store and played
A-90 and SL880; ouch, they felt ligh as feather!
images/icons/grin.gif
But one wink; If you not used to it then don\'t
try to play fast organ gliss with KX88,
you get your fingers broken or burned! graemlins/tounge_images/icons/smile.gif

[Sharon S]

Hi

Alex Cremers wrote:

Sharon, here\'s a thread about the SL-880.

click with mouse and read
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Thank you Alex for the link .
Since I\'m in the same boat as Jared its was great to read about your recomendations.

Jared if you get the keyboard before me ,please let us know if you happy with the keyboard you picked.

Sharon

[Jared Hudson]

Thanks to all who\'ve replied generously. I have read over everyone\'s posts, and still haven\'t made a definite decision, but here\'s my plan.


Music Budget (already have Gigastudio 160)

Yamaha P60 (not definite) - $750
M-Audio UC-33 - $250

Academicsuperstore.com
Sonar 3 Producer - $370
Sound Forge 7.0 - $160

SAMPLES
Steinway B - $200
Atmosphere - $400
SI Mini - $450
Quantum Leap Guitars - $150 (December Sale)
Percussive Adventures - $200 (December Sale)


Total Estimate (excluding tax and shipping) - $2800

Any comments on this? Thanks to everyone again. I\'ll still look at the Studio Logics, and a few Yamaha models some people suggested. I\'m going back to the Sam Ash music store in the city tonight (where I jammed on the Triton). I will tell you what I\'ve decided later tonight! images/icons/smile.gif

Jared

[Robin Clayton]

I greatly prefer the feel of the yamaha p series over the other keyboards I\'ve tried. But if you\'re going to combine it with the UC-33 there are a few things you need to think about. The P60 has no sustain or expression pedal inputs (according to EM though I find this difficult to believe) and the P90 has only a sustain input. The uc-33 has a lot of sliders and knobs but I\'ve found no indication that it has any inputs for foot pedals. Also, I don\'t think any of the sliders can really substitute for a pitch slider. Perhaps someone can suggest workarounds, but it seems to me that the P60/90 are crippled as keyboard controllers. I think a lot of instruments are hard to play with fully-weighted keys. So, you might consider buying a P60 and spending $400 for a decent synth-action keyboard controller, which is \"only\" $150 more than the uc-33. At least this hardware won\'t be outdated in 5 or 10 years like the triton already is.

[J. Whaley]

You should probably check out Hans Zimmer Gtrs over QL guitars. You may want to consolidate your Steinway B and SI mini purchase into either GPO or QLSO silver. Both have full orchestra plus piano which would give you a better place to start. Then upgrade later to full SI strings. I can\'t imagine SI mini being better then GPO or QLSO with the full orch.

If you want good bass I would HIGLY recommend Trilogy and/or Scarbee. I love scarbee, but Trilogy is probably better bang for buck out of the box. It rounds out the entired bass world very nicely and you won\'t be looking for bass for a long time.

[Jared Hudson]

Well, there\'s a possible job opportunity on the horizon, and I\'m buying samples for what I need now. BTW, I melt when I hear the Steinway B. Just gorgeous. About the Scarbee products, I\'m more interested in the Vintage keyboard libraries than the guitars at the moment! HA! I have recently fallen in love with the old skool sounds of Rhodes and Wurlitzer. Add a phat urban beat over the top, some of my sister\'s vocals, and maybe a sax solo from her, and I\'m really having fun! If when I get paid for the possible job, I\'d run right out and buy the full QLSO, and get a few other things with it.

You said the P60 doesn\'t have a sustain pedal plugin? If that\'s true, then I would sadly have to turn it down, but I won\'t jump to conclusions yet. I\'ll find everything out tonight. images/icons/smile.gif

[Lazul]

Hi Jared,


I am intrigued. I went to your website and checked out your studio. Very nice setup. But how in the hell does a 20 year old afford all that? Are you a trust fund baby or something? No offense. images/icons/smile.gif Then you come on here saying 3400 is outside of your budget when you have all those goodies sitting in your studio. Sorry, I had to ask.


images/icons/smile.gif

[JonFairhurst]

Do you ever go out and jam with friends? In that case get more than a controller. I like my friends K2500 for it\'s piano and electric piano sounds, its action and its control surface - though it is a heavy monster for hauling around. I\'ve got the PC-88 (predecessor to the PC-2). It\'s not bad, but has one aspect that I really dislike - the \"zone selectors\" have dual functions - they delegate the menus AND they turn the zones on and off. After owning this keyboard forever I still get messed up by that.

So, make sure that the user interface is really direct, so you can do what you need without delegating functions, menus and buttons. And only worry about the sounds that you\'ll want to carry in your car/van/truck. If you only plan to use the keybaord in the studio, go for the controller without sounds.

Regarding weighted keys, I\'ve got them, but I would love to have a synth action as well. Fast woodwind parts and string/harp glisses would be much better played on light touch keys. For times when I need less speed, but want more control, weigted is the way to go. Both is best :-)

Just don\'t ask my opinions on specific new models. My music dollars want to go for libraries, so I\'ve purposely been avoiding looking at new hardware. Then again a synth action keyboard and wind controller would go nicely with that new VSL Sax 1 package :-)

[Tumababa]

I just bought a Wurlizter 140B. Sweeeeet......

[Jared Hudson]

Ok everyone,

I just got back from Guitar Center and Sam Ash. I checked both places out. At Sam Ash, I really liked the Roland RD-150 and Korg SP300, and both were under $1000. The feel was fantastic, and the sounds, though limited, were decent (not that it mattered). They didn\'t have the Yamaha P60 on display, so I hurried over to Guitar Center before they closed. I tried it out, and it just felt.....eh...kinda heavy. Although it did have a sustain pedal plugin! HA! But it wasn\'t the one I wanted after all.

I think I will be going with the Studio Logic 880. The keys felt smooth, not too heavy, and just had basic controls, no sounds. Final price.....$400! WOW! This gives me more money for samples. I also asked the salesman what he thought about the SL-880 combined with the M-Audio UC-33e, and he said it would be fine, especially since I\'m tired of using the mouse. They had that there also for me to look at. It was very nice, as expected. I can\'t believe how naive I was. I started this thread wanting a $3400 Triton, now I\'m getting a $400 SL-880! HAHA!

One more thing, I don\'t know if anyone knows, but I planned to buy Sonar 3 Producer and Sound Forge 7.0 from academicsuperstore.com with my student ID. Does anyone know if I\'ll get a FULL license when I do that? Also, not that it matters, but will I recieve the box and manual, or is it OEM?

I was also told that Sonar 3 was a lot more annoying with windows than Cubase SX. Cubase SX is supposedly a neater working environment, and not as cluttered. Any experiences on this?

Anyways, here\'s the NEW budget so far:

Studio Logic 880 - $400
M-Audio UC-33e - $250

Sonar 3 Producer (not definite) - $360
Sound Forge 7.0 - $160

Steinway B - $200
Atmosphere Module - $400
Percussive Adventures - $200 (December Sale)
SI Strings MINI - $450

TOTAL Estimate - $2420

SEPARATE (Using my own money)

Quantum Leap Guitars - $150
Sustain Pedal - $30
Table Microphone Stand - $50

Studio Desk - Estimated $250 (building with my dad....big on carpentry).


Jared


P.S. Lazul, those pictures are the MET Studios that I used when I was at college for Music Engineering. I didn\'t go back this year, cause I\'m applying to Berklee for film scoring. No problem for asking, I\'m sure you were stumped as well as some people have been in the past. images/icons/wink.gif

[J. Whaley]

Jared, what\'s your plan with Percussive Adventures? Don\'t forget it\'s mostly performance loops. It might be a better use of your $$$ to look at another great library from East.west - like maybe storm drum!!! Or even Percussive adventures 2 when it\'s out. It\'ll be more friendly to work with. You\'ll likely want some additional software for time stretching if you go with PA 1. images/icons/smile.gif

J-

[Tobias Erichsen]

I\'d second the vote for the KX-88 from Yamaha. I own this beast for some time now. It can be bought really inexpensive and the touch is really decent. OK - it\'s not in one league with a grand piano - but then what keyboard is? Especially at a price-point of $300-$400...

Tobias