OT:Java or flash?

[SCARBEE]

Hi,

If you go to a website what do you prefer (if any) to look at:

1) Flash animation stuff
2) Java animation stuff

Have you java enabled or disabled? Have you downloaded java for XP? (not included on CD)

PS. Do you see the java applet on www.scarbee.com? (\"http://www.scarbee.com?\")

Would you rather see something similar in flash?

thanks

[MikeGraybill]

The site looks great to me in Java. I was just discussing this with some friends with regards to my own site, and personally, I don\'t like sites that require the installation of additional software to view. Flash is border-line, as many people do use it, but I\'d rather play the numbers and go with something most people are likely to have. If even one person left the site because they didn\'t want to install something they weren\'t currently using, then the site didn\'t do its job, imo.

Good looking site, btw!

[SCARBEE]

Originally posted by MichaelAngelo450:
[QB]Flash is border-line,QB]<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">What does this mean? Anyway, thanks for the comments about the site. My wife is in charge of that - and all cover artwork.

Java is very cool (check: http://www.anfyteam.com/), (\"http://www.anfyteam.com/),\") but aren\'t some people scared about security issues? And what if you have do download java?

[Chadwick]

I can\'t tell you which is better, but I WILL say that any site which has a huge intro causes me to look for the \'skip intro\' button straight away. Such a waste of time generally.

Your Java stuff is really cute and doesn\'t seem to take long to load.

[Hans Adamson]

Hi Thomas,

My standard setting is: No Java, No Flash Plug-ins, no cookies, no nothing. This for security reasons + there is nothing more annoying than having to sit and wait for irrelevant material to load. I guess I am a hard-line HTML guy...

If I really want to access something on a site that requires java, I place it in a category with more lax security. Otherwise, I\'ll just go on to another site.

Hans

[Francis Belardino]

Java:
been around forever; available in many forms (script, compiled, etc).
typically does not require the user to pre-installed a plug-in.
particularly suited for creating interactive animations and combining animation with other Web page elements.
not particularly efficient use of graphic elements (bitmaps, etc).
applets are typically larger than Flash; longer downloads, longer load times.
scalable to any processor-driven platform (computers, cell phones, appliances, smart cards, etc)

Flash:
requires a plug-in (designed and produced by Macromedia Inc.); plug-in must be updated intermittently.
supports a wider range of graphic elements (GIFs, fonts, etc) and features (opacity, etc).
highly efficient use of graphic elements (vector-graphics).
smaller, more self-contained files than Java; faster downloads, faster loading.
supports MP3.
files will give far more reliable (animation) playback rates between different machines and browsers.
So, if you\'re in the comparison game there are a few obvious differences:

Java is universally available and usable; Flash\'s usability depends on the (admittedly broad) propogation of Macromedia\'s Flash plug-in.
Flash produces smaller applets that load and download faster.
Java integrates easily with other web page elements; Flash less so.
Flash has a definate vector-graphics \"look\"; Java apps can look like whatever the designers choose.
Flash is much more self-contained and easy to deliver as a stand-alone (albeit plug-in dependent) applet; Java less so.
Java can be scaled to any platform that has a processor; Flash less so.
One point that\'s been raised over and over in the Java VS Flash debate is that Java is \"more secure\" and therefor better suited to applications like online games, etc. Although I\'ve discussed this issue with every game design and development person I\'ve ever met there\'s never been a concensus on the issue, nor a lucid description of what exactly the issue is. Suffice it to say that some of the most successful commercial game systems have and continue to be Java-based while Flash-based systems are still struggling.

Before leaving the issue it\'s worth noting that Flash was not intended to replace Java, they\'re designed to work together: Java scripts can activate and communicate with Flash files; Flash files often use Java to detect web browser capabilites; Flash typically needs Java programs to open new browser windows and select display options so that the Flash files will display as intended.

There you have it: both Java and Flash continue to have their place in the online world and that\'s not likely to change in the near future. In fact as the definition of \"online\" continues to evolve both Java and Flash are evolving with it. Java is appearing everywhere these days --any electronic device you can imagine can run Java apps-- while Flash is appearing more and more on the Internet every day. Certain areas of the web --namely movie sites and their preview offerings-- are almost exclusively Flash driven. The \"debate\" goes on.

[PeterRoos]

Hey Francis,

Having a very good year actually (as IT consultant), in spite of all the recession hooplah. This allowed me to do some nice investments in my sample library collection and PC audio gear. Hopefully I will one day be able to use it professionally as well.

Peter

PS: Any new \"floor noise\" samples? images/icons/cool.gif

[SCARBEE]

Originally posted by PeterRoos:
BTW, my XP machine did not show Thomas\' fading image Java applet...
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Yeah, that\'s the problem and the reason why I started the topic. I own Flash 5 and can also do gif-animations and Java. Gif-animatins can be OK, but they will be big.

[SCARBEE]

Originally posted by Plundrik:
Your site looks really nice anyway!<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hey, I will pass this to my wife...

About the R.S.P. \'73 - demoes will be up soon...

[Lewis]

By all means dont use java for design. Anfyjava is really crappy in comparison to what flash can do.

If you have doubts about my sayings - go to:

www.2advanced.com (\"http://www.2advanced.com\") and browse their works - as well as their own site.

Love - Chris

[PeterRoos]

Francis,

Sorry to correct you, but I am reading a number of misunderstandings and mixups in your post.

Java is not a script language. Maybe you are mixing up Javascript and Java; they are completely different and independent languages.

Javascript (also known as JScript and EcmaScript) is supported by all mainstream browsers and does not require a plugin or special runtime support.
Java is a completely different animal, an object oriented language that requires a virtual machine to be available and enabled on the user\'s machine.

You can write JavaScript in any text editor and run it from a webpage. For Java you typically use a development tool, such as JBuilder, from which you create (semi-compile) class files, which you then deploy and test using the APPLET tag in a webpage.

And here comes the nasty twist: although a lot of users have that runtime support for Java, by upgrading and upgrading Windows and the MSIE browser, Microsoft is NO LONGER distributing this Java runtime with the latest Windows and Explorer versions. This is a result of those silly (marketing and branding) wars between Sun and Microsoft and others.

If users without that runtime encounter a web page that includes a Java applet, it will first try to download and install the Java runtime. That sucker is several megabytes large. You don\'t want to bother your visitors with detours like that (what about \"you need to reboot Windows\" after installing?). Lot worse than those nasty \"Do you want to install Flash version xxx messages\".

Recently I developed a Java applet for some handy client-side keyword matching. Originally we thought it was a clever decision to chose this \"portable\" platform. The solution is now rejected by most customers in the client group, because it is not supported and accepted by their MS-based systems.... Doh. We now must consider to rewrite the stuff in ActiveX format, the least portable of all...

Better consider a lighter solution for \"presentation purposes\" by using Dynamic HTML (= Javascript and HTML 4+). Animated Gifs can also be more useful than you think, btw.
A lot simpler, and a lot more cross-browser and multi-OS compatible.

BTW, my XP machine did not show Thomas\' fading image Java applet...

Cheers, images/icons/smile.gif

Peter

[Plundrik]

Hello, Scarbee

I doubt it will be a problem to feature flash animations on your site. Many sites already use flash and you often get prompted to install it when such a site loads.

Your site looks really nice anyway!

[Francis Belardino]

I should have noted that I was not the pen~man on that post. I read an article about Flash vs Java and thought it would help here. My bad!

This was in PC Mag.

Anyway ... FLASH 6.0 is awesome!! Our site uses Flash & Java script.

www.audiovisionsonline.com (\"http://www.audiovisionsonline.com\")

How are things by the way?

[Johan]

I prefer: \"No animation stuff\"

- If I want to watch an animation, I turn on the television.

- If I want to watch nice images, I open a magazine

- If I want to find information, I search the internet. (Unless I\'ve book about that topic).

But I my opinion is probably not important as most web pages are meant for children and teenagers who consider animations \"cool\".

Hans

> If you go to a website what do you prefer
> to look at:

> 1) Flash animation stuff
> 2) Java animation stuff

[Munsie]

I develop/maintain around 3 dozen websites, some sites have 1000 hits a day others have over 100,000 hits a day. You\'ll find the more hits you get the less flash/java apps you\'ll use because eventually you will get tired of all the dial up users emailing you about how slow everything is. I\'ve never been a fan of the \"click here to skip intro\" index page. The only time I EVER watch the demos is if I\'m on a site that really depends on visuals to get their message across. (rock bands for instance) I\'ve never come back to a vendor site (where someone is trying to sell me something) after having to wait forever for a java/flash animation/menu system to load. K.I.S.S. (Keep it simple, stupid!) images/icons/smile.gif