Armageddon score ( what strings ((and voices?)) - also billbrown question

[Ed]

Does anyone know if it was Miroslav strings (or the Hans Zimmer private lib) Harry Williams and Rabin used for Armageddon.

I assume they used the same as each other for continuities sake, right? I cant hear anything especially different between the samples in the tracks.

A good track to hear the strings is on the Official Cd (Trevor Rabin only apparently) - \"Short Straw\"

If you have the bootleg cds of the score listen to the track \"A Wing and a Prayer\" on cd2.

I just want to know if that\'s Miroslav action.

Ed

PS: Out of interest how did this score get some really SOV London Choir type sounds to sing the boys choir type AHHEOO samples... Because there isn\'t a patch for this on my copy, and when I play below the range of the boys choir it doesn\'t sound right.

Bill Brown uses it as well, you can clearly hear it right at the start on one of the undying tracks (recently put up) - \" . Undying_Scene_10_BB (\"http://www.billbrownmusic.com/ZZZsound/Undying_Scene_10_BB.mp3\") \"

And while you are listening that damn sweep sound is there again right at the start before 1 second elapses on the track \" Undying_Scene_4_BB (\"http://www.billbrownmusic.com/ZZZsound/Undying_Scene_4_BB.mp3\") \", what is it!! Not knowing is killing me! lol

Ed

[KC]

Ed, those sound like Hans\' custom library, not Miroslav.

Trevor has a huge stack of EIV\'s which Hans also used before he switched to Giga.

[Paulh]

I think it´s a live string ensemble with Armageddon... I´m too lazy to check the end credits to see if it was recorded somewhere.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Originally posted by Ed:

And while you are listening that damn sweep sound is there again right at the start before 1 second elapses on the track \" Undying_Scene_4_BB (\"http://www.billbrownmusic.com/ZZZsound/Undying_Scene_4_BB.mp3\") \", what is it!! Not knowing is killing me! lol

Ed<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hi Ed,

It sounds to me like something raked across a gong, or across a cymbal and pitched down.

I have also used prepared piano for that kind of sound, but I don\'t think that\'s what this particular instance is.

EastWest has a nice prepared piano library, as does Michiel Post, if you\'re interested in those kinds of sounds in general. They are excellent for creepy mood stuff.

[Ed]

Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:

EastWest has a nice prepared piano library, as does Michiel Post, if you\'re interested in those kinds of sounds in general. They are excellent for creepy mood stuff.[/QB]<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Thanks Bruce (and everyone else). But can anyone answer my SOV question?

Ed

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Originally posted by Ed:
[QUOTE]But can anyone answer my SOV question?

Ed<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Doesn\'t sound to me like they\'re actually \"moving.\" Probably it\'s retriggered notes on the different syllables if it\'s actually London Choir. But VOTA would also do this easily with keyswitches.

[Paulh]

Originally posted by Ed:
</font><blockquote><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><hr /><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:

EastWest has a nice prepared piano library, as does Michiel Post, if you\'re interested in those kinds of sounds in general. They are excellent for creepy mood stuff.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Thanks Bruce (and everyone else). But can anyone answer my SOV question?

Ed[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I don´t think SOV has the exact sample you´re talking about... It must be a MV-exclusive sample images/icons/confused.gif

I have made a similiar sample by myself; I used 4 different patches from the Siedladzek choir (AH, EH, EE, OOH) and programmed them to blend into each other images/icons/grin.gif

Here´s a quick demo of that sample:

Click here (\"http://www.geocities.com/phtempwebsite/choir1.mp3\")

Edit: Heh I didn´t just post it to say \"look what I´ve got\", so It´ll give you an idea what it could sound like it you decide to go for that sound the way I did.

[spectrum]

There\'s mod wheel crossfades of Vowels programmed in the Roland version of SOV...which is what Trevor (and the other writers on that score) were using.

There are a number of things like this that are only available on the Roland version of SOV.

spectrum

[Ed]

Damn, if only I knew that when i bought it.

Is there a way to get a copy of the Roland version without having to buy the full version again?

[spectrum]

You could talk to your distributor...but keep in mind that NONE of that stuff will convert properly into GIGA (unfortunately)

spectrum

[PeterRoos]

Editing your AKAI version of SoV can be a very rewarding tutorial into working with the GigaEditor and into editing .Gig files in general.
The basic material is very good and it is not so hard to overcome the typical AKAI and S-Converter limitations. Also, the original release has rather slow envelopes, which you can both adjust AND keep, by creating multiple instruments based on the same samples.
It is also very nice to create keyswitching programs, for instance for the Boys Choir vowels. Another goodie is adding release samples (based on the staccatos), which can do magic if you want more VotA style short envelopes.

Be prepared for some systematic work, though (lot\'s of materials).

Peter

[PeterRoos]

oh no... images/icons/frown.gif
now I have to start fixing those terrible zzzap, zzzap strings. This is old stuff, done in one run with good old GigaSampler.
Also need to tear out those Kyrie boys... terribly overdone...

Lol Doyle images/icons/cool.gif

Btw, drum loop is also from Eric/Spectrum: Liquid Grooves.

[KingIdiot]

I think SoV would be a great place to start trying to learn the giga editor. I dont have it, but know how some of the lib is laid out. You could make some great stuff with the patches.

Also Ultimate strings is a great one to fool with, as well.

AO can benefit from some editing to make it more playable in one channel (adding hard attacks to sustains)

Thats one thing people should definitely get into. You can start to create patches that these \"top\" composers wotn have access to.

[Thomas_J]

Learning the gigaeditor is pretty simple, and opens up a world of possibilities to the composer/producer. I strongly recommend diving into it. It can be fun and very rewarding, as long as it doesn\'t crash (which it does a little too often it seems) - KingIdiot has a great point. Because many people are too lazy to learn the editor, they are missing up on a lot of fun. You can reprogram any library to suit your playing style and expression. Ultimate Strings, as KingIdiot mentioned is a great one to begin with. The library does not feature X-fade patches so I set out to create some. It took me 30 mins and the results were very good. Made the library sound totally different. And the best part, I customized it to my preference.

So just get down with it and learn it. It\'s simple (and you can buy Dave Govett\'s tutorial if you feel uncomfortable learning it from trial and failure.)

Thomas

[Ed]

Ive just listened to Peters \'Assie\' track and OH MY, its great! I have no freaking clue how you managed the bit at the beginning!\' HOW!???

And Eric, this has convinced me that I HAVE to get liquid grooves. I think you need a few more demos of some your libs because one track isn\'t always enough. I love that groove in Peters track its the stuff ive been looking for ages!

I am going to get that gigaeditor tutorial too.

thanks everyone.
Ed

[dwdonehoo]

Peter has some great advice above, and he really knows what he is doing with SOV. As a matter of fact, go to his site and listen to \"Assisi\", one of the best songs I have heard via this forum, and maybe the best I have heard of that genre. Without a doubt, it is a showcase for SOV and one of these days I too will get SOV. Meanwhile, I listen to \"Assisi\" now and then with envy.

[PeterRoos]

Hey Ed, nice remarks.
The intro starts with 3 short Gregorian chant phrases from SoV, that\'s easy. (BTW, I recently heard these a few times in \"The Body\" with Antonio Banderas\").
Next part with strings and several choir instruments was mostly a matter of mixing level and changing chord voicings. I remember also using \"pre-set\" choir samples singing the Cm and Abm chords. Solo soprano was created in SF from 3 short phrases.
Funny detail in this track is that I used my good old DX7 for a low Prophet drone in the beginning and for the fake church organ (hard panned with delay on the opposite site). Actually one of my very first pieces with sample libraries and GigaSampler...

On Liquid Grooves: make sure to get the Groove Control version (I have the AKAI version), like Eric said probably a lot more flexible.

Regards,

[Nick Phoenix]

I am pretty sure that low male vowel shuffling is from Han\'s custom library. It\'s an 80 piece male choir. He sampled them singing little phrases and words. Sounds huge and silky smooth. Puts the demons from VotA to shame. Interestingly enough, the SOS review of VotA mentioned the demons and compared them to Crimson Tide. Good thing he didn\'t have those samples to compare them with. Not that I don\'t like the demons, but it\'s only 8 men.

[Hasen]

That Assisi piece is great Peter! Your skills with vocal samples are incredible, and you wrote the piece so long ago as well.

[Maarten Spruijt]

Nice atmospheric piece indeed, Peter.

On the intro phrases I hear the ambience cut off a bit and start again on the new phrase. Perhaps you should \"merge\" those by adding more reverb. Then you make it sound more like they are in one recording/room.

Just my 2 vocal cents/lines.

Maarten

[PeterRoos]

Might be a worthwhile \"study\" assignment to redo this after two years. Have built a nice pile of libraries, since I did this one.
I would definitely tackle it with a different approach now. I will keep you posted images/icons/smile.gif