Looking for advice/ Orchestra on a budget

[D.DiAnda]

Hi,
I\'m trying to put together a decent set of samples on a somewhat limited budget. I mostly write big orchestral music and/or simpler folk/medieval/renaissance influenced music.
So, here\'s what I\'m considering buying:

Strings: GOS lite. (But, until I can afford that, I\'m thinking about buying prosamples vol.11 -which will give me some strings, woodwinds, and perc. to hold me over for a while).
Choir Prosamples vol.13 (Eventually, I\'d like to get VOTA, but it won\'t be in my budget for quite some time)
Brass SAM Horns (already bought them - can\'t wait to get them!), SAM Solo horn, SAM trumpet. Also, I\'m considering prosamples vol.20 (from QLB) to fill out the brass section. (Is there any chance that the DDBE will be sold as separate instruments? If the trombones sound good and are somewhat affordable, I think that I would rather just get them to fill out the brass sect.)
Percussion SAM Timpani and the percussion on prosamples 11 - until SAM Percussion is out. Also, I\'m considering buying prosamples 4 (percussive loops) and/or prosamples 32 (ethnic adventures). (I think that both of those are from Percussive Adventures).
Medieval/folk Early Patches (already bought it) and prosamples 31 (from rare instruments). Eventually I hope to buy the full RI.

Any opinions? Suggestions?
images/icons/smile.gif Thank you,
Dana

[Austin]

Don\'t forget woodwinds as you are planning. Flute (including ethnic ones), Clarinet, Double-reeds....etc.

Depending on your style of writing, you may not need WW sections right away, just solo. OR, perhaps the opposite is true.

Look at Dan Dean Woods for sure, as you they ARE per instrument.

[Z6]

Dan Dean solo strings are quite inexpensive but very classy. They are great for dripping into GOS or probably any other strings for that matter.

And, of course, you now also have a solo violin, viola and cello for around $35 apiece.
Tob has a website with a ton of free goodies, and you might want to plead for Thomas\' delightful pan pipes.

I don\'t own them but Michiel has a couple of harpsichords that sound pretty damn great in MP3 and they seem also quite inexpensive.

[Hasen]

What type of music are you writing? I ask because you list the folk/early patches stuff which isn\'t normal orchestra as such. Personally I would forget getting a choir (I still don\'t have one) and just orchestrate with the standard orchestra for now. So many composers these days take the easy option of trying to \'fill out\' their orchestrations by throwing some choir in with it. With the Tob and SAM freebies you should be well on you way, except for strings and woodwinds.

You might want to think about the AO/Prosonus/Roland entire orchestra libaries. They\'re a good cheap way to get the whole thing and even when you get the GOSes and the DDSBs you still find yourself reaching for the patches from stuff like AO or prosonus - or those legendary Roland strings of course. images/icons/smile.gif

DDSB is available in sections so you can buy whichever instruments you need the most. Along with SAM Horns and Trumpets you should have a good brass set. I would reccomend DDSB rather than DDBE \'cos you have ensembles with the SAM stuff. For choral works its best to have solos.

Well that\'s my thoughts anyway. images/icons/smile.gif

[Marsdy]

Dana

This is probably an unfashionable opion but on a limited budget the Advanced Orchestra Set is a great place to start. They might not be
chromatically sampled or have 8 velocity layers for every note but there are a lot of articulations for each instrument. There are some hidden gems in there you would use whatever libraries you buy. The ensemble flutes, staccato contras and bassoons to name but three. Add to this the free/cheap libraries you mention and you\'re laughing.

Then you can replace the sections of the orchestra one by one with the more expensive libraries. Start with the one that gets on your nerves the most!!!

BTW, what is Peter Siedlaczek doing these days?

[D.DiAnda]

Thank you for the replies...
Don\'t forget woodwinds as you are planning... I should have mentioned in my original post that I\'m not too concerned with woodwinds at the moment. I don\'t use them a lot, and I have some decent soundfonts that I can get by with for now.
Dan Dean solo strings are quite inexpensive but very classy... Thank you. I think I\'ll add them to my list.
What type of music are you writing? Currently I\'m writing music for an amateur gamedev team. It\'s a medieval/fantasy game which calls for music ranging from simple medieval/folk sounding tunes to be played in the taverns to big orchestral battle music (with medieval influences). Actually, there\'s a good chance that I would be writing this type of music even if I was not working on this game.
You might want to think about the AO/Prosonus/Roland entire orchestra libaries... That\'s two votes for AO... what about the compact edition? Anyone have it? How do you like it? I guess that $650 is a good deal for the full edition, but I really want to get GOS lite. So if I get the AO, then I would feel like a big part of what I\'m paying for is another set of strings. I\'m not ruling it out.. I\'ll have to give it some thought. Also, I\'ll check into prosonus and roland. - thanks.

[dougrogers]

Originally posted by D.DiAnda:
That\'s two votes for AO... what about the compact edition? Anyone have it? How do you like it? I guess that $650 is a good deal for the full edition.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I have a sneaky feeling that AO will be on sale at www..com (\"http://www..com\") for $475 from tomorrow for one week. Contact info@.com for more details.

dr

[D.DiAnda]

Thanks for the tip! Now the pressure\'s on images/icons/shocked.gif
Time to make a decision. I\'m seriously leaning toward setting all other choices aside for now so that I can afford AO. (All except, of course, the SAM horns which I\'ve already bought). images/icons/smile.gif

[Vertigo50]

I\'d have to agree that AO is a good place to start. The average listener would think that it\'s a real orchestra, and it\'s quite useable. There has never been a time when it didn\'t really do what I needed it to do. There were a few times when I didn\'t like certain sounds, but was able to shape them with EQ and other effects to the point where I was satisfied.

Anyway, as was said before, it\'s a good starting point, and you can replace instruments slowly when you tire of them. With the discount, I think you\'d be making a good investment.

[Hasen]

Well at that price Dana, you gotta get AO! Even if you had GOS _full_ you would still reach for the AO strings in places. Not the sustains though that\'s for sure! I see now why you need the Folk/Early patches libaries, they sound pretty good from the demos so they should do the job.

About the woodwinds, I\'ll have to admit I postponed buying any for a while and just used soundfonts. But with AO you should be alright anyway. Its funny that AO is still the best for this price range, there has been so many advances in orchestral sampling but no-one has made any new budget range full orchestral sets.

[csduke]

I would recommend you consider Prosonus \"The Orchestra Collection\" from Big Fish Audio. You would be buying a pretty good full orchestra for $299. It is really a fantastic value. I cannot compare it to AO as I have no experience with AO. Prosonus includes a boat load of instruments though. Some are OK. Many are very good. Its weakest point is its woodwinds, IMHO. I believe it will always be useful to me. I started with Prosonus then added DDSS, then UOP, and as of yesterday, SAM Solo Horn and GOS Lite (so far - very nice) and soon SAM Horns. Prosonus is a very economical and big way to get your feet wet with GSt. It will also have a lasting value to you. Good luck!

[Ed]

BTW, I know that Prosonus has great orchestral effects and would be perfect for the music that you say you are making.

Ed

[D.DiAnda]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate your responses. I think that I will go with AO... I\'ve been checking for that sale, but haven\'t seen any sign of it so far. Guess I\'ll have to try my best to be patient. (I sent an email to info@, but it may have been too late on friday - I\'ll have to wait til monday).

[pantonality]

Hi Dana,

I hate to complicate your decision, but I bought AO Strings and was very disappointed with the sound. Frankly the sustains sound harsh to my ear. I eventually opted for GOS and well the difference is nothing short of incredible. I would avoid AO and opt for Prosonus if you\'re on that small a budget. From the comments here they\'re at least usable.

Out of AO Strings only the soft sustains and the solo patches are still on my computer.

Steve Chandler

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Originally posted by D.DiAnda:
Thanks everyone, I appreciate your responses. I think that I will go with AO... I\'ve been checking for that sale, but haven\'t seen any sign of it so far. Guess I\'ll have to try my best to be patient. (I sent an email to info@, but it may have been too late on friday - I\'ll have to wait til monday).<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">AO is an excellent buy at this price. The phrases/FX alone will benefit you greatly, and as a springpad for adding more specialized libraries it really fills the bill.

[MikeGraybill]

I\'ve gotta agree with Pantonality on this. I actually purchased AO strings Giga (on a tight budget) and was terribly disappointed with them. It is downright challenging to get good note-to-note transitions with AO, if not almost impossible. The attacks just don\'t lend themselves in most cases to smooth motion, especially in high dynamic ranges.

From what I\'ve heard, I\'m pretty sure that I bought the weakest part of the library. Perhaps AO with GOS Lite would be a really good way to go?

I would certainly recommend the AO sounds/variety over much of the ProSamples stuff. I got the Vol. 20 Orchestral Brass, and while I wasn\'t upset with the sound, you really get what you pay for. The sounds are somewhat static overall, and while they would be useful in certain contexts, mostly they go unused on my drive in favor of the Xsample Trombone and some personal samples of my own.

In the end, I personally would choose AO to cover most bases, but plan on something else for my strings, with AO strings supplementing where they can. (wish I had known this more than a year ago) Good Luck!

[RickD]

I hope I\'m not too late here. images/icons/smile.gif Don\'t waste your money on a bunch of junk, it will never suffice! Just get the cheap Conexant GM 500(sounds better than quicktime, he he), and save up and buy only good stuff.

You\'ve got some good trumpets and a great horn section, and you can squeak by for now on the strings that come with the Gm 500, so now you should get Dan Dean Woodwinds. You can\'t do orchestral work without good woodwinds.

At this point, don\'t waste a hundred bucks on one trombone, save up and be patient, in the long run it will be worth it. When you scratch together another 600 bucks get DDBE or Solo brass. Now your getting somewhere, and you can put up with the cheap percussion in the conexant library, your next move should be some top quality Strings, GOS, Sonic Implants etc.

The rest is gravy.

Just my 2 cents worth, Good Luck!

Rick

[Hasen]

Originally posted by pantonality:
Hi Dana,

I hate to complicate your decision, but I bought AO Strings and was very disappointed with the sound. Frankly the sustains sound harsh to my ear. I eventually opted for GOS and well the difference is nothing short of incredible. I would avoid AO and opt for Prosonus if you\'re on that small a budget. From the comments here they\'re at least usable.

Out of AO Strings only the soft sustains and the solo patches are still on my computer.

Steve Chandler<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">None of the AO Strings sustains are still on my computer, I did say previously that the sustains are not good, its all the other stuff that\'s great. Even if you had GOS _and_ SI you would probably still need to reach for AO strings at times. Its a great orchestral foundation, everything is well recorded and consistent.

Anyway, I fear our friend Dana has already gone off and purchased AO which leaves us to argue the pros and cons of budget libraries past 100 posts when the Sun has long gone down.... images/icons/smile.gif

[KingIdiot]

What\'s your budget?

It may be a good idea to look into one of the \"orchestral pack\" if you dont have a big budget.

Piecing together from pro samples, may not yeild good enough results to keep you inspired. I wouldn\'t really know tho, since I dont have any of them.

Anyhow, if your budget is extremely tight (as it seems it is). Pick up Prosonous. I dont have it, but think it would prolly be the best option for quality vs. price \"center\" for orchestral mockups.

Then you can add SAM horns and the free SAM stuff, as well as GTown\'s free stuff.

This should give you enough to do the basics for about 400-500 bucks, and still sound pretty good. Get Dan Dean solo strings to layer over the prosonous strings to add expression, thats another 129. This shoul dbe enough to get some great sounds IMO. Obviously not top of the line, but still good enough if you learn to use them (which is one of the major keys)

Edit... I just read Doug\'s Post about AO. Its a great lib, and thats a pretty good price.

Remember that you\'re on a budget and you wont be getting top qual sounds.

I think you could go far with its strings and Dan Dean\'s solo strings. The only problem with Dan\'s is that there is only forte dynamics, but with a bit of creative reprogramming with filters you could get them to work great to layer over AO.

[Paulh]

About AO strings, I hated them for a very long time until I just recently decided to be more open-minded towards them. I think the different expression styles included on that library are very useable, which absolutely applies to all the AO samples...
IMHO, AO is the best possible starter library anyone could have at the moment... 75% of the sounds I use still come from AO! (one way or another)

----

This may be a little OT, but my philosophy of digital orchestration has always been to use nothing out-of-the-box, which applies to every orchestral sample I own, including AO... To be honest, that library can sound pretty lame without tweaking.

just my two cents...

[D.DiAnda]

No, I haven\'t bought them yet. Please keep arguing the pros and cons images/icons/smile.gif . I\'m getting more confused with each post, but I imagine that that\'s a good thing... in the end when I do sort it out I\'ll probably feel better about what I decide.

[Vertigo50]

I totally agree with Paulh. I was actually going to make the same point. AO requires some tweaking.

For example, when I use the strings I have to use a hearty dose of expression, a little EQ tweaking to fix some of the \"harshness\" that someone mentioned before, and of course a reverb to add a little room to it. It also takes some decent mixing skills (but not too good, because I\'m terrible at mixing and it still sounds alright).

So if you\'re willing to work for the sound a little, you\'ll be glad you have AO. If you\'re not willing to work for the sound, then you shouldn\'t be using samples, you should be writing for live musicians. (I don\'t mean that to sound harsh, believe me.)

Anyway, you\'ll have to coax good sounds out of any library, and you\'ll find more depth in AO in my opinion. GOS is definitely worth getting later, though, it just doesn\'t give you the whole orchestra, and you need that at first. I\'m saving up for GOS too, so I feel your pain.

[D.DiAnda]

Thank you everyone for all of your help. In the end I decided to go with the AO. It sounds like it will be a decent foundation to start with. (For some reason it made a better impression on me that prosonus).
Thanks again images/icons/smile.gif

[KingIdiot]

cool enjoy!