GS driver for Win 2K

[Charles-Valentin Alkan]

Can anyone get a FIRM release date out
of Nemesys for the release of its new driver
for WIndows 2000? Some sound card makers,
such as EGO-SYS, have already promised
their new Win2K drivers.

[elle]

A recent reply from Nemesys on this topic:

We won\'t be releasing any WDM (win2000) version of GStudio until Microsoft releases the Whistler version of win2K. The current OS is not really proAudio ready (too few outputs, high latencies, ...). The next version is going to be much better. We\'ve been told that version will ship around April-May.

[GigaBeliever2]

What happened to Nemesys saying they would have Win2k support at the January NAMM?

If they have GigaStudio working in any way on Win2k, why not release it as a \"user beware\" alpha?

I for one could live with more latency just to be able to try out a quick idea without having to reboot...

Let\'s see, Win2k support was supposed to come out end of last summer. Now it will be here beginning of this summer? Something tells me this new release date will be pushed back like all the rest...

[Charles-Valentin Alkan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by elle:
A recent reply from Nemesys on this topic:

We won\'t be releasing any WDM (win2000) version of GStudio until Microsoft releases the Whistler version of win2K. The current OS is not really proAudio ready (too few outputs, high latencies, ...). The next version is going to be much better. We\'ve been told that version will ship around April-May.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is nonsense. Ego-Sys reports on their website that they have developed a Win2K driver with audio latencies of 3 ms. They say Win2K is much faster than Win98.

Besides, what has Whistler got to do with it? Whistler is a hybrid version of Win 98 and Win NT. Win2K is 100% NT and beyond. Whistler is a step backwards.

To make matters more urgent, the sound card companies are now gearing up to release drivers for Win2k, including GSIF drivers. Witness Ego-Sys Wami Rack. The say they will have a GSIF driver for Win 2K released in a few months.

Nemesys must make the development of a Win2K driver an urgent priority. Statistics show high-end users are deserting Win98 for Win2k in droves. The number one reason is crashes--or rather the avoidance of crashes. Since I switched to Win2K, I experience crashes and hangups on the order of 1 or 2 a week--rather than a dozen a day with Win98. And for the first time in years, I can almost always shut down my machine without a freeze.

Regards,
Alkan



[This message has been edited by Charles-Valentin Alkan (edited 01-04-2001).]

[Jamieh]

Whistler is NOT a hybrid of Win98/Win2K. It is just a consumer OS build on the Win2K kernel. It should be just as stable as Win2K, but cheaper, with better consumer driver support and with less business oriented features.

That being said, I don\'t understand why Nemesys can\'t get Giga running on Win2K. It seems like the ideal platform.

[cc]

\"Seems\" being the operative word. However, one has to cut through the Microsoft marketing spiel and look at the actual engine. With all respect, implementing a real-time DSP performance system is a completely different ball-game to writing a sound-card driver.

I honestly believe that the best long-term solution is going to be to produce a version of GSt which can run on its own dedicated machine with an OS kernel stripped down to support *only* and *exactly* the functionality that makes GSt fly. Something like real-time linux (since it is available and free), beos, or similar.

As long as GS runs on a machine with a general OS, it will compete with the OS \"housekeeping\" mechanisms for resources, and hence not be able to utilize the machine consistently at maximum CPU load.

[Haydn]

Creating a Win 2K version is not as easy as just making a driver. The whole program has to be rewritten to use the API\'s built into Win2K which may or may not be the same as in Windows 98. The core of the operating systems work totally different. I work with a group of programmers at Intel who are developing an application for Win 2K, Win 98 and Win Me. There are even many differences between Win 98 & Me which cause major headaches when debugging. Intel has a much larger amount of working capital to hire the people they need to work on a project. I\'m sure that Nemesys does not have this extra capital to hire the extra people to create a newer version as well as fixing the bugs on the current version.

I appreciate what GigaStudio can do after seeing what happens with my group who are working on a program that is not as complex as GigaStudio. I see the testing that has to be done with various hardware platforms - we have a group of 5 people just for testing not counting the dozen programmers. It will take them approximately a year to put out this product they are working on which will probably still have bugs when released as they cannot test it with every configuration of hardware and software that could be installed on a system. I would truly love to see a Win 2K version but at the same time I know what the difficulties are in developing it.

[midiboy]

I am REALLY (!!!) unhappy, if not to say pi**ed off that the promised W2K version will probably arrive 1 year after the promised release date. I am getting reliable latencies of 8ms in W2K with VST instruments and I am seriously sick of this talk about needing a seperate PC.

I have got 2 PC´s right now, but it would be really great if Nemesys would get their act together and finally make GS into a VST instrument one could use from inside Cubase or other VST compatible programs.

Granted, I have no detailed programming knowledge but my common sense and experience in this corporate world tells me that they are just not willing to adopt foreign standards, probably because of greed or whatever. Their effects plugins are crap, I doubt anyone uses them, but they had to create a new standard instead of finding a way to use Direct X or VST plugins.

There is always a way to get things to work properly. I still remember programmes complaining about how music unfriendly Win95/98 was. At the beginning you kept hearing arguments about how impossible it was to get low latencies and tight midi timing on Win98 compared to a Mac.

Now the same thing happens with Windows 2000. I am just pissed that Nemesys didn´t start developing for NT earlier on. They should have started their work on NT (4.0) and not Win98. Then, they would even have had a chance to create a new standard. Right now, they should really hurry. Steinberg will release Halion, there are other virtual samplers out there and memory prices are very low.

Most of the time it´s marketing and not technical reasons.

[ursatz]

Haydn,

Agreed 100%. I\'ve worked in software for 20 years, and I simply marvel at what GigaStudio does. Yes, there are way too many bugs (e.g., all of a sudden, just in the last couple of days, mine always crashes on exit - never did that so regularly before!). But for all that it\'s one amazing piece of software.

Me, I wish they\'d fix the bugs instead of worrying about w2k. I guess the many crashes wouldn\'t be so disabling under w2k, but I *really* think their priority should be to make the product solid, then port it to different OS\'s.

[David Abraham]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by midiboy:

I have got 2 PC´s right now, but it would be really great if Nemesys would get their act together and finally make GS into a VST instrument one could use from inside Cubase or other VST compatible programs.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don\'t think Nemesys wants to participate in the \'integrated plugin sampler\' market they have their high-end customers and that\'s apparently good enough for them. As for me, I don\'t need 500MB bass samples - products like Halion, EXS24 and similar integrated samplers will take care of the rest of us.

-david abraham

[Jamieh]

Hey while we are on the topic of OSes, I just got my new machine pre-loaded with Windowns Millenium. I would like to go back to Windows 98 SE as some people have said GigaStudio runs better on it. But I don\'t know where I can get a hold of it, as most places only sell Millenium now.

So my question is, how much worse is Millenium than 98SE? Is it worth it to try and dig up 98SE? I have an old version of 98 that I could use, but it is first edition, not SE.

[This message has been edited by Jamieh (edited 01-08-2001).]

[elle]

http://www.98lite.net/98lite.html (\"http://www.98lite.net/98lite.html\")

[GigaBeliever2]

From a recent news.com article:

\"The Personal and Professional versions of Whistler are expected to ship before the end of 2001\" The Personal and Professional versions are the non-server versions of Whistler.

So I guess no Win2k GigaStudio until the end of this year if we\'re lucky???

That just plain GigaSucks...

[Charles-Valentin Alkan]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GigaBeliever2:
From a recent news.com article:

\"The Personal and Professional versions of Whistler are expected to ship before the end of 2001\" The Personal and Professional versions are the non-server versions of Whistler.

So I guess no Win2k GigaStudio until the end of this year if we\'re lucky???

That just plain GigaSucks...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does anyone on this forum have any hands-on experience with a Whistler beta? Is Whistler a stripped-down consumer version of Win2K?, or is it a new OS--significant step forward (especially in terms of NT implementation) beyond Win2K? If one is running Win2K now with relatively few problems, will Whistler offer any advantages or new features that would make Win2K obsolete?

Also, why no one can say yet about compatibility, wouldn\'t it be essential that MicroSoft provide backward compatability with Win2K for all programs and drivers for Whistler? Lot\'s of major corporations have already plunked down big bucks to convert to Win2K. If MicroSoft leaves them holding the bag after only one year, I\'m sure there will be hell to pay.

Regards,
Alkan

[GigaBeliever2]

I am by no means an expert on the subject, but from what I understand Whistler is to Windows2000 what Windows98 was to Windows95. So Whistler is just an enhanced version of Windows2000 with bug fixes and some new features.

So anything that works in Windows2000 should work in Whistler without requiring new drivers or updates (except perhaps low level software like disk defraggers, anti-virus apps, or CD-R burning apps that get their hands deep into the OS cookie jar). Whistler Personal is supposed to replace WindowsME, and so Microsoft\'s entire OS line will be based on the same 32-bit code base - finally giving regular Windows users the stability we love with Windows2000.

As far as a compelling reason to upgrade to Whistler, the fact that GigaStudio will work on it is enough for me!

The look and feel will be refined somewhat, including a cool new feature for completely changing the look of the UI to different \"skins\" ala Windows Media player 7. One troubling addition is the possibility of copy protection which will tie the OS to the computer its installed on. I hope this doesn\'t mean you have to buy a new license when you upgrade your motherboard....


Happy Jamming,
John

[GigaBeliever2]

\"I believe that GigaStudio will still have to be rewritten for Win 2K code for Whistler since Whistler is actually an upgrade to Win 2K. \"

In theory it should work in Win2k too, but I bet Nemesys will make the installer exit if its Win2k and not Whistler since Nemesys believes \"The current OS is not really proAudio ready (too few outputs, high latencies, ...)\". They probably don\'t want GigaStudio to run on Win2k if it isn\'t up to speed with the Win98 and Whistler versions...

Here is a FAQ on Whistler: http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/whistler.asp (\"http://www.winsupersite.com/faq/whistler.asp\")


[This message has been edited by GigaBeliever2 (edited 01-12-2001).]

[Haydn]

I believe that GigaStudio will still have to be rewritten for Win 2K code for Whistler since Whistler is actually an upgrade to Win 2K. I could not find any articles from Microsoft regarding compatibility with Win 98 programs and Whistler. There would probably be some performance issues to keep older Win 98 programs compatible. Info is still sketchy on Whistler at this time. I\'m trying to get a beta version to test.