What reverbs are you guys using with GOS? [Archive]

Damon

11-10-2001, 01:01 PM

Just curious what reverb and reverb settings you guys are getting good results from emulating a hall reverb? I don\'t own a Lexicon or anything in a box. So don\'t reply if you\'re going to say get a Lexcion PCM-91 because I can\'t afford it http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/frown.gif.
Can anyone recommend a good setting for brass and woodwinds to make them sound more in the back of the hall? I tried a reverb decay for the brass and woodwinds last time of about 1.9 seconds and put about 60 percent reverb wash over it to try and make them sound more in the back. I got okay results. Any tips would be appreciated. I\'ve got a choice between using TC reverb or Waves Renaissance.
Thanks

[This message has been edited by Damon (edited 11-10-2001).]

IGOR

11-10-2001, 03:16 PM

I do use the Waves trueverb. I have a small Lexicon (MPX1), but this one was waist of money. I also have the TC SPARK reverb, which is quite good when your are on the point of mastering to add the extra touch, but in no way for something else.If you can not afford the high end Lexicon, I would advice not to buy a cheap one. For me trueverb works quite well. I needed some time to find the good parameters. Of course I am also looking for better!

Simon Ravn

11-10-2001, 03:22 PM

MPX1 waste of money?? http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif Uhm... okay.... http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Damon

11-10-2001, 03:37 PM

Simon, what do you use?

IGOR

11-10-2001, 06:13 PM

Simon, I am really only telling about my experience with the MPX3, it could of course be that you know better how to use the MPX1 as I do.I had the MPX connected to my 03D Yamaha mixer, and I could just not get a clean reverb with it and not as good distance feeling as with the Waves plug-in, which is also much easyer to use for me. But if you have some advice how I could get good results with the machine, I would appreciate your comments.

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IGOR

Damon

11-10-2001, 07:10 PM

I\'ve been experimenting with the Waves Renaissance verb all day and I think it sounds great for a plug-in. I found a great \'Grand Hall\' setting that I tweaked some. Much more depth and richness then the TC reverb IMHO.
I will be using this verb from now on http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif!

[This message has been edited by Damon (edited 11-10-2001).]

IGOR

11-11-2001, 05:00 AM

Damon, you write you use Waves Renaissance, I do use the Waves trueverb, do you also did try it? If yes, could you tell me difference between the two, and if it is worth to upgrade to Renaissance. Actually I think they have a demo on their website, so I will have a look.

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IGOR

Simon Ravn

11-11-2001, 06:53 AM

IGOR, I don\'t really have any advice. I just turn the knobs until I am satisfied with something http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif I have used the MPX1 for everything the past 3 years or something. I also have a TC M-One, which is more CLEAR than the Lexicon, so you tend to HEAR the reverb more with that, which is in my opinion no the point at all, at least not for orchestral music. So I rarely use that for orchestral stuff - sometimes I use it for the brass though. It is very good at looooong nice verbs a la Mike Oldfield/Enigma - I\'d definitely take it over the MPX1 for that, but not for orchestral music. Having said that, I think that Waves RVerb is the best sounding software reverb I ever heard and sometimes I use it on the final mix to add a little extra hall feeling. And if it wasnt software, or if it was realtime working on my Pulsar, I might consider using it all the way, but as it is now, I still prefer using HW reverbs.

Damon, I guess this answers your question too http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Simon Ravn (edited 11-11-2001).]

IGOR

11-11-2001, 11:25 AM

Thank you Simon, I did spend this rainy sunday surfing after audio infos on the Internet and I found:
http://www.music.vt.edu/students/ohestnes/verbtest/reverbtest.htm (\"http://www.music.vt.edu/students/ohestnes/verbtest/reverbtest.htm\")

Their are 40 diferrent MP3 files 24 times a vocalist and 16 times drums processed with different reverbs. Always the same music of course. I did follow the advices and did the so called blindfold test. After finishing I did know which reverb I will buy. On both the vocalist and the drums, the same one winned with a big difference in points.In order to not influence other poeple I will, at least for now, not write which one. I only hope that it is not a guy from this company which is author of the test :-), because it seems so obvious, but I do not think so. This label always made me a very honnest impression.

Damon

11-11-2001, 06:50 PM

Rennaissance is better then TrueVerb IMHO and easier to tweak.

[This message has been edited by Damon (edited 11-11-2001).]

Garritan

11-11-2001, 09:47 PM

Chosing reverbs can be like chosing flavors of ice cream. Personally, I like acoustic modeling technology. What sampling is to synthesizers, acoustic modeling is to reverb. You sample the actual room acoustics - then place the instruments in a sampled concert hall of your liking. The Sony DRE777 is a great stand-alone unit (expensive) and AltiVerb is a terrific Mac program. Sound Forge has Acoustic Mirror built in as a Direct X plug in.

Another good program is SoundStage, a direct X plug in that emulates an acoustic space. You place the instruments where you want on stage, virually position the mikes, control the size of the room, the absorption on the walls, etc. Great for instrument placement (you can position the individual instruments of an entire orchestra), but not the best reverb tails.
Gary

Martin Lachance

11-11-2001, 11:55 PM

A small question on reverb and effects while you guys are on this topic...

Do you have to record your work as audio before beginning to use effects like reverb, or can you hear the effects when still working with MIDI tracks?

I wish Giga would offer the possibility to add plug-ins...

Martin

Tom Hopkins

11-12-2001, 04:53 AM

Martin,

One advantage to running a dedicated computer for GigaStudio is the ability to send the digital outputs of your soundcard to digital ins on your sequencer computer\'s sound card. With a low latency card installed in the sequencer computer (I use an RME Hammerfall with Logic) you can apply built-in, DirectX, or VST plugins to the GigaStudio channels in real time. Works well for me.

[This message has been edited by Tom Hopkins (edited 11-12-2001).]

IGOR

11-12-2001, 01:36 PM

Just to add something to the posts of Tom, Matin and Gary.

I do, as Tom, use GS on a dedicated machine and with Logic I can (using input faders) hear the FX in real time. This is really good!
Concening the reverb I just want to add that the Sony DRE 777 is probably a fantastic thing, but it do cost about 9000:-( And last but not least a question: Is the Altiverb really out as Mac Plug-in, in this case I must have receiced some wrong information?

IGOR

11-12-2001, 01:43 PM

Just an add on to my last post:
The Altiverb IS out for mac, as Gary said, but only to use with Performer and AudioDesk. For me no, thank you, I am really happy with Logic. If there is something similar which runs as VST with Logic, please let me know.

ChrisAxia

11-12-2001, 07:38 PM

Hi all,

Well you guys have got me thinking now! I\'m a Logic user with an RME Hammerfall to which I recently added the UAD-1 card that has the excellent RealVerb Pro. However my Giga PC only has an 8 analogue output card which I patch into my Mackie d8b.

Now, after what Tom said, It looks like I should replace the Giga\'s card with an RME Multiface so I can access the RealVerb in Logic! Oh no, more money!! Thanks a lot Tom!

Chris

.....or maybe I should spend a little more and get a PCM91?

ChrisAxia

11-15-2001, 11:42 AM

OK Guys,

I just did an experiment. I recorded a dry mix of that rough string GOS idea I posted earlier into Logic, and messed around with the MPX1, M-One and RealVerb Pro and the Realverb Pro sounded nicest.

SO, I\'ve just ordered an RME Multiface! I blame you Tom!! My credit card is quickly losing flexibility!

Chris

Tom Hopkins

11-15-2001, 12:46 PM

Chris,

Sorry . . . I thought all musicians were independently wealthy . . .

IGOR

11-15-2001, 01:55 PM

After 4 days of testing reverbs with GOS, I finally bought Altiverb. I hope this is it, because I allready have Rverb, trueverb, and some TC verb and of course the usual stuff included with Audio sequencers. But Altiverb seems really to be something else. Actually I played and listend to concerts in two of the sampled halls, and as far as my memory is accurate it is unbelievably realistic, especially the Vredenburg Hall in Utrecht, which I do know quite well, because I did teach for 6 years at the university for music in this town.

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IGOR

Bardstown Audio

11-15-2001, 10:19 PM

I have read several responses on this thread that refer to a Lexicon PCM91 as being a sought after hardware reverb box for orchestral music. The PCM91 is certainly a very respectable reverb box for many applications, but I do not think it to be a good choice for classical, unless you are wanting a reverb that adds color to your music. In general, for classical orchestral music, you want a transparent reverb with good room and hall emulations, rather than coloration.

A PCM91 is extremely well suited for drum tracks, vocals, and certain instruments in pop music. Reverb units in a similar price range that are more suitable for classical music would be a Quantec Yardstick or a TC M3000, with the Quantec Yardstick probably being the better choice of the two. The ultimate reverb box for classical music, which Gary previously mentioned, would be a Sony DRES777, but no doubt this box is beyond the justifiable financial means of most people.

The best and most suitable software reverb plug-ins for classical music, in my opinion, are the Wave\'s Renaissance Reverb and Digidesign\'s Reverb One in TDM format for Pro Tools 24 Mix TDM systems.

If you produce a variety of music, classical, pop, etc., it is nice to have a variety of reverbs as well, if your budget permits.

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

pantonality

11-16-2001, 02:24 AM

Hi All,

I came across something the other day and realized it\'s something I\'ve been using for a bit. www.silverspike.com (\"http://www.silverspike.com\") offers some nice FREE plugins RoomMachine 844 and RubyTube. They also offer a pretty good reverb (Reverb.It) that\'s reasonably priced at $39 and there\'s a free demo of that available.

I\'ve been using the RoomMachine to make my latest mixes (the Jitterbug for String Quartet and everything on the Ettienne page) sound like it\'s in a real room. I use it on each individual track to give each instrument some placement then add reverb on the master buss. I\'m still learning to use this stuff, but it\'s made a big improvement.

I haven\'t used the Silverspike Reverb.It much and haven\'t tried the quality parameter. They say you can adjust the CPU load by adjusting the quality. If it was up to me I\'d max that one, but haven\'t actually tried it with the free demo.

Let me know what you think.

Steve_Chandler (\"http://www.mp3.com/stevechandler\")
aka Ettienne (\"http://www.mp3.com/ettienne\")

[This message has been edited by pantonality (edited 11-15-2001).]

IGOR

11-16-2001, 04:27 AM

Hi Bardstown Audio

I do for sure not want to start any polemic about reverbs, but did you really try the Altiverb? To me this one seems to be of much higher quality than everything you mentioned(besides the DRE777), especially for classical-orchestral music.

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IGOR

Bardstown Audio

11-16-2001, 04:45 AM

Hello IGOR,

I am not familiar with Alitverb, though I have heard it mentioned. Is it an acoustic imaging/reflection type of reverb plug-in? Tell me more about it.

Thanks,

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

ChrisAxia

11-16-2001, 05:25 AM

Thanks Kip,

I don\'t feel so bad now, not going for a PCM91. I\'ll check out the Waves stuff and see how it compares to the RealVerb Pro.

Cheers, Chris

IGOR

11-16-2001, 05:59 AM

Reply to Bardstown Audio

Hi,

Altiverb is a sampled reverb as the Sony DRE777, but it is software (plug-in) so it cost much less. If you like to know more about sampled reverb, please the post of Gary about it. I did play and hear concerts in some of the sampled halls and I can assure you, that it is incredibly realistic. it sounds like I am making publicity for this product, but I have no connection with Adioease, I am just very satisfied with it

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IGOR

Jeannot Welter

11-16-2001, 11:30 AM

Igor,

Where can I find a demo for this Alitverb?
Thanks.
Jeannot

KevinH

11-16-2001, 03:25 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChrisAxia:
[B]Hi all,

I recently added the UAD-1 card that has the excellent RealVerb Pro. However my Giga PC only has an 8 analogue output card which I patch into my Mackie d8b.

Chris,

How is the UAD-1 card. I am considering it for my Pentium ,Cubase setup. How are the compressors and EQ\'s? Is it really invisible to the computer\'s processing chip as the claim?

I would appreciate any feedback.

Regards,

Kevin

ChrisAxia

11-17-2001, 07:21 AM

Hi there Kevin,

Yes, the UAD-1 card is \'invisible\'. It just appears in the VST plug-in menu in Logic, the same in Cubase I guess. The emulation of the 1176 and LA2A compressors are amazing. They sound like the real thing. The EQ is very nice, and the reverb is excellent.

I have 2 problems, which may only be Logic related. The first one is a click that can sometimes appear before a \'processed\' track starts to play, which Universal Audio claim will be fixed before December. The second is the delay if using the Reverb in a send/return situation. There is a workaround apparently, but is different for the various sequencers.

But, I think it is amazing value for money. You will not hear a smoother plug-in compressor than the LA2A, great for vocals, and the 1176 is fantastic on drums!

Chris

IGOR

11-17-2001, 08:12 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jeannot Welter:
Igor,

Where can I find a demo for this Alitverb?
Thanks.
Jeannot<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

at http://www.audioease.com (\"http://www.audioease.com\")

------------------
IGOR

A_Sapp

11-19-2001, 03:26 AM

Is the KDFX processor for the K2500XS ideal for the GOS library? I mean, I forked out some mega-bucks for that addition. Does anybody own this? Which pre-set would be suitable for the strings?

Jeannot Welter

11-19-2001, 10:57 AM

Igor,

Thank you.

Jeannot.

PeterRoos

11-19-2001, 01:19 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by IGOR:
at http://www.audioease.com (\"http://www.audioease.com\")

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Darn!

Great demo, interesting product!
And they are even located just 10 km from where I live (Utrecht, Netherlands).

However (sigh...) it\'s a Mac only product...

But what a great forum this is! I am learning a lot from you all!

Peter Roos

dnortana

11-23-2001, 07:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by A_Sapp:
Is the KDFX processor for the K2500XS ideal for the GOS library? I mean, I forked out some mega-bucks for that addition. Does anybody own this? Which pre-set would be suitable for the strings? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I\'ve got a fully loaded K2500XS, with KDFX, and have been meaning to try it out as a reverb processor - in live mode. It\'s just one of those things I haven\'t gotten to yet, particularly since I just added Waves Renaissance Reverb to my DAW, which does a very good job on orchestral music, for the money.

In theory, KDFX would permit running several instances of reverb - in parallel - and with appropriate \'tweaks\' to make each one just a little different, but compatible, one should be able to obtain a very lush, complex reverb.

Sorry not to have the preset of your dreams for you yet ... but I wanted to encourage you to exercise the KDFX. It is a remarkably versatile, powerful and clean sounding effects processor.

Re Altiverb, I can say that I have an orchestral piece that was processed with Altiverb, and many very critical listeners were very highly complimentary of the realism. One or two said it was the most realistic sounding they had heard. As a drawback, the Impulse Response library for Altiverb is very, very skimpy at the moment. Though this should be a temporary state of affairs.

Trond

Crispin

11-28-2001, 04:16 AM

Hi all, fabulous thread - very interesting to many I suspect!

Question: does anyone know if you can run stuff through Alitverb in realtime from an outside source? (i.e. can I send giga output to it as I compose or only once I\'ve tracked it)?

Also, can anyone tell me how to access it in AudioDesk? I downloaded the demo but I couldn\'t seem to access any MAS plugins in Audio Desk at all. I must be totally blind or something...

Any info much appreciated.

Thanks all,
Crispin

Bruce Mitchell

11-30-2001, 02:27 AM

hi Crispin.... re: Altiverb: You can run audio through it in real time. But if you\'re running over 30 or 40 midi tracks plus audio you might need a Mac G5. (2002)

I am running Altiverb with DP 3.01 in a standalone configuration with a Powerbook G4 550 and a Motu 828 dig out to a Spirit Digital console. I am only using stereo to stereo reverb settings and already my processor use is around 70-80%.

You must run it in NO LATENCY mode for real time audio. It will perform better with a mono to stereo verb. Call me if you need help to set it up. It\'s the best reverb for Concert Hall simulation.

ChrisAxia

11-30-2001, 10:43 AM

Hi there Bruce,

Thanks for the info. My supplier here in the UK tells me he has supplied 3 people with Macs just to run Altiverb! He reckons it sounds amazing, but hasn\'t had a chance to compare to the expensive Sony unit. Have you?

thanks,

Chris

ChrisAxia

11-30-2001, 10:44 AM

ChrisAxia

11-30-2001, 10:47 AM

Bruce Mitchell

11-30-2001, 06:45 PM

Chris: I have not compared it to the Sony. The Sony is 3x more cost. It is also much slower loading presets. I much prefer the Alti to the Lex PCM 91 in my studio.

PeterRoos

11-30-2001, 06:56 PM

Can you give us a cost indication, from what you have learned on the hardware requirements and software license for Alti?
I am not so familiar with the Mac types and costs.

Peter Roos
(NL)

ChrisAxia

11-30-2001, 07:57 PM

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for that. Well if you far prefer it to your PCM91, I think I\'d better start saving!

Chris

P.S Sorry for the triple post. This site was doing strange things earlier toaday!

Bruce Mitchell

11-30-2001, 11:14 PM

Peter; You need at least a Mac G4 450 and a pro sound card. If you buy a Motu device then you get the audio software for the plug in. Then you can download the Alti demo and hear it with occasional beeps before you buy.It also works well on a Mac Cube which you can get used but your only choice for audio is the Motu 828 since it has no PCI slots.Cost depends on your location. Here in Canada everything is overpriced.

KingIdiot

12-01-2001, 02:15 AM

Bruce,

How does Alti perform with basic Mac Audio I/O?

*Does* it/DP3 perform with basic Mac Audio I/O http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

I have a Tibook that I\'d love to run it on with my other lap. What I hope gets going is EgoSys\' new Adat USB 2.0 interface. and if I can get it to work on both Mac and PC, then I can run 8 track lightpip to and from teh MAC-PC

WOW!!!! that would be freakin awesome!!

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

Bruce Mitchell

12-01-2001, 03:30 PM

Hey King; Yes DP 3 works well with Native Mac Audio, You can use Sound Manager, Digi, Asio, Korg 1212 or Motu all running uner MAS. (Motu Audio System). Processor use is the same for Sound Manager or Motu. Firewire is better than USB for audio. YOu can also use multiple 828\'s now.The really great thing about DP however is Quick Scribe. I use this everyday on a Cinema Screen/Cube combo to compose with from my Midi keyboard. Beats anything else I have ever used for speed, accuracy in Notation.

BTW King: I find it incredible that you can get 160 voices out of a Tecra seeing that the hard drive av.access time is around 13 ms. Its one thing to get close to 160 playing
just the piano-its another to get 160 using 30 instruments or so. Now there\'s the Tecra 9100 up to 1 gig of Ram. I imagine that 2 of these with 2 RME DigiFace might sound
good. (And replace my noisy 1.4 Athlons )

For GOS Halls I find the Alti Vredenberg Large Concert Hall Stereo to front cardiods my fave impulse. In fact I am running Dan\'s Solo Trumpets direct through this hall with no dry mix. Beautiful! Also snare drums will sound like a Hollywood Sound Track with this Hall. You can\'t get this sound from normal reverbs. I\'ve tried. I use a lot of Orch Percussion from Vitous. The snares and Bass Drums are great. You might want to roll back the reverb time to 97% or so.

Simon Ravn

12-01-2001, 04:53 PM

Hmmm someone should make Altiverb for PC http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

KingIdiot

12-01-2001, 04:55 PM

Interesting Bruce,

Yes its 160 at mostly one or two instruments. PLaying more will definitely start to kill the poly. I haven\'t put it through a very rigorous test yet. But It performs VERY well for sketching string pats with the Full strings lite,..then putting parts together and rendering them out instrument by instrument.

As for USB Audio. I agree Firewire is better, BUT this Egosys interface is VERY VERY small and does not require an additional power supply. My MAIN issue with laptops was to get a computer tht I could compose on with out additional hardware/power supplie..etc....but still get great sound since I\'ve been spoiled by Giga http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I mean yah.. I could compose on just GM/XG sounds ( I probably should so I focus on the music), but I\'m spoiled by having inspirtional sounds http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

I\'ve been known to take my laptop and compose on it while I go wait in line for a movie http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif. I\'ll be doing that while I wait in line for Lord of the rings thats for sure.

I want a MINI Ztar neck next http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif MWAHAHAHA

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Really...I am an Idiot

A_Sapp

12-01-2001, 05:43 PM

I understand that exactly!! I used to compose better music with my old PSR-225 than I do now with my kurzweil K2500XS. I thought I was the only one like that, sheez. Sounds are good enough to where you can make easy music sound good. Sheez.

Crispin

12-03-2001, 12:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bruce Mitchell:
hi Crispin.... re: Altiverb: You can run audio through it in real time. [snip]
You must run it in NO LATENCY mode for real time audio. It will perform better with a mono to stereo verb. Call me if you need help to set it up. It\'s the best reverb for Concert Hall simulation. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Bruce, thanks for the reply and kind offer. I may yet give this a go but I\'ll have to buy another mac just to run it since I currently use Logic on my G4 (I somehow doubt AudioDesk or Performer would cooperate by running concurrently...)

Take care and thanks again,
Crispin

Bardstown Audio

12-03-2001, 05:37 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Crispin:
Hey Bruce, thanks for the reply and kind offer. I may yet give this a go but I\'ll have to buy another mac just to run it since I currently use Logic on my G4 (I somehow doubt AudioDesk or Performer would cooperate by running concurrently...)

Take care and thanks again,
Crispin<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rather than invest in a new G4 just to run Altiverb in real time and using it as an external reverb box, why not just install DP or Audio Desk along with Altiverb on the same G4 with Logic and import audio files into DP or Audio Desk, which you have tracked in Logic. You can then apply Altiverb to your audio tracks accordingly, and then import them back into Logic. Obviously, you would do this after completing all other effects processing in Logic, and apply Altiverb just before final mastering.

Having everything on the same G4 would also make for much tighter digital word clock sync, otherwise, you would be introducing unwanted jitter to your sessions if you were to link another computer to your system. If you should happen to have a quality word clock sync device, such as an Aardsync II, where you could sync several computers and or other external devices, then added jitter from daisy chaining computers and other digital devices to your system would not be an issue.

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")

KevinH

12-05-2001, 06:10 PM

Bardstown Audio

12-05-2001, 07:38 PM

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Crispin:
\"Hey Bruce, thanks for the reply and kind offer. I may yet give this a go but I\'ll have to buy another mac just to run it since I currently use Logic on my G4 (I somehow doubt AudioDesk or Performer would cooperate by running concurrently...)
Take care and thanks again,
Crispin\"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why would you necessarily need to have Logic and DP/Audio Desk running concurrently? You can record your audio tracks in Logic, then quit Logic, open DP, and import your audio tracks into DP or Audio Desk for processing with Altiverb, then bounce those tracks to disk, close DP, re-open Logic, and then import those processed tracks back into Logic. Works great for me.

Kip
Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com (\"http://www.bardstownaudio.com\")