Solo violins dont match rest of GPO?

[tremolo]

Is it just me or do the solo string demos posted in the Garritan website sound toyish to every one? Far from sounding like a Gagliano or Stradavari these samples dont even sound like violins!!! The stradavari sounds like a really bad cello sample. The Gagliani sounds like a bad violin for some pitches while sounds like a bad cello for other !!! I even have some free violin soundfonts that sound better.

The solo string demo should rather be removed as they stand in sharp contrast to the rest of GPO and Gary\'s standards....I dont mean that they will deter anyone from buying. It is understood that solo violins are under development. but I\'d rather wait than here samples like these.

cheers

[christianb]

This may sound like heresy but i recently had a track going and when the time came for solo vio I naturally went to KH. Afterward just for sh*ts and giggles, I copied the track over to gpo\'s solo strad and was pleasantly surprised. In the end I used both. Playing off each other and then in tandem. Worked nice in my opinion.

cb

[yannitch]

Originally posted by tremolo:
Is it just me or do the solo string demos posted in the Garritan website sound toyish to every one? Far from sounding like a Gagliano or Stradavari these samples dont even sound like violins!!! The stradavari sounds like a really bad cello sample. The Gagliani sounds like a bad violin for some pitches while sounds like a bad cello for other !!! I even have some free violin soundfonts that sound better.

The solo string demo should rather be removed as they stand in sharp contrast to the rest of GPO and Gary\'s standards....I dont mean that they will deter anyone from buying. It is understood that solo violins are under development. but I\'d rather wait than here samples like these.

cheers <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Where is this solo demo, which one? I can\'t find what you are talking about.

[Houston Haynes]

Originally posted by yannitch:
Where is this solo demo, which one? I can\'t find what you are talking about. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Try http://www.garritan.com/audition (\"http://www.garritan.com/audition\") and check out the solo violin demo there.

[Houston Haynes]

Originally posted by tremolo:
Is it just me or do the solo string demos posted in the Garritan website sound toyish to every one? <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">It\'s just you. images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[Wirebird]

I think the demo referred to is this http://www.garritan.com/mp3/PaganiniCapriccio-Stradivari.mp3 (\"http://www.garritan.com/mp3/PaganiniCapriccio-Stradivari.mp3\")
It\'s far from toyish, but it does sound a bit like the player had perhaps one too many. MIDI controllers Var, Vel and portamento are applied in a slightly unatural way. But the solo strings in GPO are pretty good - listen to the third violin example in GPO Audition for a different passage if this one does not convince you.
I have both KH solo strings and GPO and although the solo strings in GPO don\'t have as much variation as KH solo strings, they do sound very good with a different character that I also like.

Wirebird

[Garritan]

We have a different approach to demos. Some developers offer only super-polished demos that have been made in-house or by professionals and then tweaked and processed.

Although it is easy to hire professionals to provide well-polished demos, such examples could be misleading. Instead, we thought it would be best to show the libraries in real world use. The vast majority of our demos are submitted by actual users. This shows all aspects of the library in a variety of musical styles and settings. There\'s so much flexibility with GPO that I wanted to show it all, but some seem to want perfection all the time - and this is not what music is about.

The Capriccio was submitted by Matteo Bosi to show how each violin sounds different. No other library offers three solo violins - let alone a Stradivari, a Guarneri and a Gagliano. Matteo made a good contribution.

Tremolo, your criticisms were duly noted and those demos have been removed from the demo page. I\'ll pass along your critique to Matteo and ask him to revisit the demos.

I realize you cannot please all the people all the time. I feel badly when users share their demos out of the goodness of their heart. When demos are unduly criticized contributors feel badly about leaving a bad impression of GPO.

Do you all think that we should offer \"perfect\" polished demos that would knock everyone\'s socks off? Or should we continue with the policy of posting as many demos as possible from users?

What do the rest of you think about demos. Should we only put our best foot forward? Or do we show it all? Let me know what your thoughts are.

Gary

[Skysaw]

I actually liked the solo examples that were up. There were a couple of imperfect moments, but those were brief, and the overall impression was very good in my opinion.

[Wirebird]

Originally posted by Garritan:
Do you all think that we should offer \"perfect\" polished demos that would knock everyone\'s socks off? Or should we continue with the policy of posting as many demos as possible from users? <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I think the user demo contributions are great, and apart from GPO itself this open attitude was one of the reasons why I bought GPO. Composing classical music or anything that is written for an orchestra is far from easy, but the friendly community approach that surrounds GPO on your website and on the forum is very inspiring and IMHO something a lot better and greater than just \"serving up polished demos to market a product.\"

The violin demo discussed here is not bad, it just needs slightly less aggressive use of controllers. I don\'t think it should be removed - it\'s a user demo, not a polished professional demo. It\'s nice to be able to hear what users can accomplish because they are probably closer to my own range of skills. Having all these demos available is like saying: \"You can do good and you can do great with this instrument, it\'s up to you, not the limitations of the instrument.\"

Wirebird

[dalamein]

Gary

I believe that demos of users are critical, and that it gives users pride in their work, that they have composed with GPO.

You have already proved GPO is phenominal in sound, with in house demos. I wish to see your site grow with more user demos.

The Solo Demos were fine.

What you could do is have the best of both worlds, by having a headline \"GPO USER DEMOS\" or still have the demos you have it right now in context, and just write \"GPO USER\" next to their piece.

Something to that effect. it is importatn to do this, as many students, and musicians already know that sometimes DEMOS are made by in house professionals, but what if they could hear good user demos. This makes us realize that composing and orchestrating with GPO is user friendly and very possible to pull off.

Thats just my point of view


Dave

Gary I also emailed you with some questions since your private message is full.

Dave

[Tim Monaghan]

As an owner of GPO Id say that they are one of my favorite intruments in the collection.

I dont think Gary was trying to make a master peice with that demo, from what I read it was just a ...demo.

Its up to us, you and me to make them sound great with good sequencing, in my opinion, I\'ve done it and Ive heard demos where others have done it far better than me. Gary is just providing us the raw tools. Its our job to make the music. If a sample sounds too pretty in its raw form, it will probly screw up your song (opinion).

Anyways, I am very happy with all of the violins that come with GPO. As a violin and viola player myself, I was prepared to be dissapointed, but was pleasantly surprised.

I think they sound great. (The real thing....I havent listened to that demo, because I didnt know about it when I made my purchase. )

As a musician I think its easier to see the raw tools, and imagine what you\'d do with them, rather than see the tools thru someone elses eyes...

Tim

[Jeannot Welter]

Tremolo,

How often have you heard a Gagliano, a Stradivarius in real life? How close have you come to any of these instruments?
I have worked for 30 years in the music business, mostly as a conductor and I have listened to instruments of that quality from 6 feet away.
That\'s why I tell that your comments are out of line and malicious. But then, you might just have bad ears...

JW

[Wirebird]

Originally posted by Jeannot Welter:
That\'s why I tell that your comments are out of line and malicious. But then, you might just have bad ears...
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Let\'s not scare people away from commenting images/icons/wink.gif
Not everyone buying GPO has 30 years of experience, but most people has an idea of what they like. All opinions should matter when it\'s regarding something that\'s for the novice as well as the experienced (but respect should of course be a key word in such circumstances).

Wirebird

[Headcheese]

The solo string demos are probably not the most flattering of all the demos , but I like being able to hear them. I find it very interesting to hear a range of skill levels applied to the tool, and oh, the solo instruments sound very nice to me. limited articulations, but you can get a surprising variety out of what is provided - and I have never heard a soundfont that compared images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif . I love the user demos Gary - Keep em comin! (the fact that one of mine was posted has absolutely no bearing on my opinion- though I am honored! And Gary- I figure you decided not to post my clown car demo because...well, because its about a clown car!)

[nexus]

\"..I realize you cannot please all the people all the time. I feel badly when users share their demos out of the goodness of their heart. When demos are unduly criticized contributors feel badly about leaving a bad impression of GPO..\"

Gary, that\'s why I NEVER post my demos on any forums here. I\'m not in the disposition to run the \'NS Forum Gauntlet\'!!

I think many people here need to \'lighten up\'. I know there are many seasoned pros here, but unless your Bernard Herrmann, can the negative derisionary crap. A sharp comment or two can really feel like getting a whipslap here to someone who enthusiastically puts something out as a demo.

I just wanted to say that for a long time. It\'s not directed at anyone in particular, but those people whom it might be, well you know who you are.

Guess saying this is \'gonna make me REAL popular here now....

[Skysaw]

Originally posted by Garritan:
Tremolo, your criticisms were duly noted and those demos have been removed from the demo page. I\'ll pass along your critique to Matteo and ask him to revisit the demos.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I think you should repost them, or get a substitute up quickly. I ordered GPO partially based on those.


What do the rest of you think about demos. Should we only put our best foot forward? Or do we show it all? Let me know what your thoughts are.
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Best approach would probably be to post it all, and mark the user submissions as such.

[bosone]

HI!
i\'m the one who submitted the violin demo to gary.

first of all... it may seem obvious but i don\'t think that they sound so \"horrible\" as someone stated...

second: i\'m NOT a violin player! i just played two or three notes out of a violin (just to try how it works, i never began to study it, nor i want to do!). i\'m just an electcric guitarist (and no skilled one, too!) and hobbyst musician.

i tried to \"render\" the paganini capriccio while i was listening to a real performance by Accardo. the task for me what to learn how to use the articulations and how to get the maximum from the library. since i\'m not a violinist i don\'t know if the rendering i made is reliable, but, compared to the original recording, i was satisfied.

i have to admit that i made the original recording with the gagliano (if i remember well) and then i used the same midi file to render the 3 mp3 with the three different solo violins included in GPO. and i have to say that one sound better than the others. but the fact two out of three violins sounded \"worse\" is due to the MIDI file, and NOT to the samples!
i don\'t know if i have time to improve che MIDI recording fot the remaining violins, but i will try!
meanwhile, you can listen to the other demo i made, in which i used the solo violin over some distorted guitar and drums!! ;-)

[tremolo]

Originally posted by Garritan:

I realize you cannot please all the people all the time. I feel badly when users share their demos out of the goodness of their heart. When demos are unduly criticized contributors feel badly about leaving a bad impression of GPO.
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I think my message came across wrongly.

Gary...please note that I didnt mean anything negative about you. Your sample libraries have changed orchestral sampling landscape and I have benefited tremendously from them. I NEVER meant to criticize you in that sense. Far from it, I have deep respect for your products and I was just pointing out that the solo string demos were not upto the standards of the rest of GPO (which is exceptional). I wasnt even attempting to be harsh on the Bosone, who made the demo.
All I was saying was that the solo demos should probably wait till the samples get better.

I really really apologize if I came across as rude. Maybe I should have just sent you a private mail rather than posting to this entire group. I am really sorry.

But I am indeed glad you still took my message positively. You should be considered as a benchmark in customer service.

Regards

[tremolo]

Originally posted by Jeannot Welter:
Tremolo,

How often have you heard a Gagliano, a Stradivarius in real life? How close have you come to any of these instruments?
I have worked for 30 years in the music business, mostly as a conductor and I have listened to instruments of that quality from 6 feet away.
That\'s why I tell that your comments are out of line and malicious. But then, you might just have bad ears...

JW <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Mr Welter,
I really didnt wanna get personal, unlike you did, so I refrain from saying anything in reply to your silly

the readers in the forum will judge who has a bad ear, and mouth!!

[Jeannot Welter]

Agreed.

[Garritan]

Tremolo

Thank you for your gracious reply.

Nicolò Paganini (1782-1840) was one of the greatest violinists of all time. His pieces composed for solo violin were considered almost impossible to perform earning him a reputation as a \"magician\" and \"the devil\". 150 years later Paganinis\'s works are still extrememly difficult for even the world\'s greatest violinists. The Caprice is of a certain style and period and the nature of the piece is different than what we are accustommed to hearing today.

In light of the fact that the Caprice is most difficult for real violinists, Matteo\'s attempt with sampled sounds was a bold step and I applaud him for his effort. We will revisit the Caprice and we\'ll be posting more solo violin demos soon,

Thanks to those who have sent in solo violin mp3s since the start of this thread.

Gary Garritan

[Garritan]

Here are some solo violin demos that were just submitted.

The Romanza in F by Beethoven was performed on the 3 GPO solo violins by Francesco Marchetti. These three solo violins - a Stradivari, a Guarneri and a Gagliano - were all made in the 1700\'s.

http://www.garritan.com/mp3/fm-Romanza-GUARNIERI.mp3 (\"http://www.garritan.com/mp3/fm-Romanza-GUARNIERI.mp3\")

http://www.garritan.com/mp3/fm-Romanza-GAGLIANO.mp3 (\"http://www.garritan.com/mp3/fm-Romanza-GAGLIANO.mp3\")

http://www.garritan.com/mp3/fm-Romanza-STRADIVARI.mp3 (\"http://www.garritan.com/mp3/fm-Romanza-STRADIVARI.mp3\")
---------------------

Here is a violin solo from a larger peice titled \"Lament\" composed and performed by Jerry Wickham.

http://www.garritan.com/mp3/ViolinSolo-Lament.mp3 (\"http://www.garritan.com/mp3/ViolinSolo-Lament.mp3\")

Thanks Francesco and Jerry for sharing this with us.

Gary Garritan

[tremolo]

Thanks for those excellent demos!

Who would\'ve imagined 6 months ago that these Violins are just but a part of a full orchestral library costing 250 bucks!!

I really like these and therefore take back my immature comments that started this discussion.

(geez .. dont I feel stupid now images/icons/shocked.gif )

cheers

[MusicalCharities]

Originally posted by Garritan:
Do you all think that we should offer \"perfect\" polished demos that would knock everyone\'s socks off? Or should we continue with the policy of posting as many demos as possible from users?


I think that all user contributions are among the most important aspects of GPO (and GOS). Having them is what gives the sense of community that Gary has tried to achieve so diligently in the past.

[Mega]

Yes, maybe the web site can highlight that these are demos by users like yourselves!

Thanks Garritan for showing remarkable openness, flexibility, and dedication! It will surely lead to your continued success and hopefully ours as well!

[fjafan]

Gary,

I wasn\'t really looking to purchase GPO at this time, but after having read this and other threads on this forum, and having seen the incredible service and care that you give to your customers, I felt almost obligated to take the plunge now! Well, maybe not obligated, but certainly motivated! So, I will finish this note and hasten over to your website to sign up today! As someone else said earlier, you could write the book regarding Customer Service!

Dave

[RickD]

Originally posted by tremolo:
Thanks for those excellent demos!

Who would\'ve imagined 6 months ago that these Violins are just but a part of a full orchestral library costing 250 bucks!!

I really like these and therefore take back my immature comments that started this discussion.

(geez .. dont I feel stupid now images/icons/shocked.gif )

cheers <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">You might feel stupid but in my book you\'ve shown great character!

Rick

[Kunio]

Gary, keep the user demos! Some are great, more importantly proffesional slick demos always avoid anything that doesn\'t sound perfect with the sampled articulation of the player. The GPO demos have real composers trying to fit the samples to THEIR needs, instead of changing their music to fit the samples! The user demos have been a major selling point for me. If you take them down and put up a measly 3 staccato-brass-unison-concerto demos like Silver I\'ll be dissapointed!

Remember when you couldn\'t even get demos of libraries? They expected you to pay thousands without hearing it. GPO has more demos than all the other guys combined! This, my friends, is truly a butt-kicking policy. That Gary has to balls to put up so many varied demos proves he is confident in his product. Complaining about this is looking a gift horse in the mouth, nothing more. Some of the user demos have a few warts, some are pro-caliber productions... As it should be! Would you rather he insulted your intelligence like all the rest? Not only that, it\'s FUN to hear what other people are doing with the library!

[Elhardt]

Please don\'t attack me too, but I had the same thought as Tremelo did about the solo violin demos. The vibrato sounded artificial as if looped, the violins sounded thin, and there is almost no noticable difference between the three. But then again, it\'s playing in the high register, above where all the interesting body resonances are and that might account for some of that. However, I was very impressed by most of GPO especially after learning how small the library is (fitting within memory). Probably even smaller than my old Advanced Orchestra library.

-Elhardt