How Does it Make You Feel?

[robgb]

The more I use GPO, the better I feel. What a wonderful library. I\'m constantly amazed by how good it sounds.

My flu has been cured, my winter itch went away and I\'m beginning to think GPO is the reason....

[rJames]

Well, sort of the opposite for me. I\'ve gained an addiction. images/icons/grin.gif

[Alan Lastufka]

To quote one of my older poems:


It makes me feel like this:

#^GE*^EG#&ERG#*RG#*&RG#*RG#*&RG

and I like it! images/icons/grin.gif <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">

[Houston Haynes]

For the first time, I can sit at down and simply think about composing and not some way around the limitations of a library. At this point, the concerns associated with hardware and software technology have nearly disappeared from the foreground and I\'ve gotten closer to \"pure\" musical thought during my sessions. That\'s a gift from GPO that cannot be overestimated. It\'s quick, efficient, and creatively gratifying to work with. I think that the body of work that it will generate from the numerous users that adopt GPO as an orchestrational platform will more than bear me out on this point. The good folks at Berklee seem to agree. Who could ask for anything more?

[robgb]

Funny thing is, I just got a review copy of Opus 1 and I don\'t feel like loading 30 gb worth of samples and wading through them... images/icons/smile.gif

Nice to have GPO within easy reach.

[Alan Lastufka]

Originally posted by robgb:
Funny thing is, I just got a review copy of Opus 1 and I don\'t feel like loading 30 gb worth of samples and wading through them... images/icons/smile.gif
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">OH, BOO-HOO Rob images/icons/tongue.gif You can send Opus 1 my way, I promise to write you a review for it in return images/icons/cool.gif .

[JonFairhurst]

How does it make me feel? Honestly, ambivalent. Not all that negative, not super positive. A bit of this and a bit of that.

On the positive side:

* What a super value! $249 for the whole orchestra, plus other goodies. Amazing. Hence, my purchase.

* Very complete. Not just an orchestra, but a very complete one. Two harps? A pipe organ. Very cool.

* Nice expression. Having the mod wheel control so many instruments is excellent. Definitely a step above the typical CC#11 expression, which is volume only. It\'s not the first lib to offer mod-wheel control of dynamics and timbre, but it\'s the first (to my knowledge) to offer it on so many instruments.

* A nice blend. Laying the instrument tracks together builds a result that is greater than the sum of the parts.

* A reasonably solid first release. I had problems out of the box, but made them right. The pedal crashed the system in some cases. The solo violin had tuning problems. These were quickly resolved in the first update. Not perfect, but above average quality for 1.0/1.1 software.

* Active enhancements. Wow. 1.1 came right away. GPO Studio is out. Do we get new stuff *every* month? It\'s clear that GPO is only in its infancy.

Now to the negatives - not for everybody, but for me...

* My focus is on aggressive/edgy music, often from solo instruments. GPO has a more traditional sound. I can\'t complain though. I knew that I was getting a broad foundation, and that I couldn\'t expect every sound to beat a VSL, EWQL Platinum or a boutique library - or to be tailored to my ear. I figured that I\'d fill the gaps with other current and future libs.

Keep in mind the above positive point of the blend of the instruments though. While a given single patch may not \"speak to me\", combining the instruments often surprises me with better than expected results. It\'s kind of odd - in a good way.

* Difficult to mix & match with my Giga libs on my current system. I own some libs that I really love, and know very well. But I can\'t play them simultaneously with GPO on my current setup. So I often don\'t use GPO at all, depending on the focus of the piece I\'m working on.

* Poor current integration with Sibelius. GPO Studio helps. There are still some functional limitations. Gary assures me that this will be improved over time, and I\'m very confident that this will be the case. But for now, when I use Sibelius, I don\'t use GPO as the soundset.

Writing this out (my own personal therapy) has shown me why I feel ambivalent about GPO - most of the time I don\'t use it. I\'ve pushed it to the back of the toolbox. And if I don\'t use it, I\'m not getting my money\'s worth.

But I really *want* to use it. And when it\'s near the front of the toolbox, where it belongs, the ambivalence will surely pass.

I\'m just gonna have to figure out a scheme to host GPO on another machine, and spend the cash to do it. Some combination of new RAM, a soundcard, FxTeleport and the existing PCs in my house will eventually do it. Then I can sequence with it alongside Giga.

Regarding Sibelius integration, I\'ll be patient. I don\'t really need GPO sounds to proof my notation or work out counterpoint, so this is really secondary.

Eventually, GPO will be at the front of the toolbox, where it belongs.

-Jon Fairhurst

PS: Please don\'t tell me I should experience things differently or make music differently. My experiences and feelings are valid.

And the feelings of those who use GPO regularly, and enjoy it deeply are also 100% valid - that\'s where I want to be. I\'m just not quite there yet.

[robgb]

Originally posted by Alan Lastufka:
</font><blockquote><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><hr /><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Originally posted by robgb:
Funny thing is, I just got a review copy of Opus 1 and I don\'t feel like loading 30 gb worth of samples and wading through them... images/icons/smile.gif
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">OH, BOO-HOO Rob images/icons/tongue.gif You can send Opus 1 my way, I promise to write you a review for it in return images/icons/cool.gif . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">What\'s your address, Ala-- oh, wait, that probably wouldn\'t be legal... images/icons/smile.gif

[robgb]

Don\'t worry, Jon, you\'ll get there eventually...

[JonFairhurst]

Originally posted by robgb:
Don\'t worry, Jon, you\'ll get there eventually... <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">And I\'m taking active steps to make it happen...

http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=007058 (\"http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=007058\")

Writing the above post about \"how it makes me feel\" was a bit of an epiphany.

[nexus]

Well many of you here have said what I myself have been feeling about GPO.

Its GREAT just bein\' able to sit down and work on pieces without being confronted by gigabytes of articulations or having to learn some arcane method of keyswitching or some such other Gigastudio type of thing.

Now I know that articulations of various sorts are needed for some types of music and I have changed my opinion of the need for such things that the \'BIG\' (just had to use that term again!) libraries offer. I feel that eventually such things will be offered as upgrades and I\'ll be the first in line to buy them.

$$$$ money. The BEST part of this library is the sound/performance vs cost factor for me. Some here can afford QLSO Platinum or VSL. That\'s great if you can buy that. I won\'t knock those libraries anymore. I once spent a fortune (for me) on the Vitous library ten years ago when it came out and I cannot really ever do that again.

GPO is priced so reasonably (and realistically!) and Gary is so committed to his users that I have been calling it a groundbreaking product here for months and I think it has proven that in spite of \'intitial release\' bumps.

Thats just my take on this thing. When my new PC is finished (3.0 ghz-1.5 gigs ram) I expect to just fly with GPO! (I\'m probably going to be scarce around this forum after that--too busy making music!!).

[E minor]

Poor current integration with Sibelius. GPO Studio helps. There are still some functional limitations. Gary assures me that this will be improved over time, and I\'m very confident that this will be the case. But for now, when I use Sibelius, I don\'t use GPO as the soundset.


That\'s not good. . . GPO would serve no other purpose to me but to make MP3\'s, considering I notate all my music, and that with Sibelius.

[JonFairhurst]

There are four issues:

- You have to match staff and sound manually by setting the channel for each staff in Sibelius to match your GPO template. A minor issue.

- Since GPO ignores program changes, and Sibelius can\'t change channel mid-staff, you can\'t change articulations easily, say from arco to pizz. There\'s a workaround, but it\'s not a fun one. Since GPO is not articulation-intensive, this only affects a small number of cases.

- Since most GPO instruments use the mod-wheel for dynamics, and Sibelius uses velocity, your dynamic markings, hairpins and the espressivo feature won\'t work properly. The workaround is to manually send a mod-wheel command. Very not fun. This is my biggest concern.

- Since Sibelius doesn\'t support envelopes, it will never get the magic out of GPO that a sequencer can. (This one\'s hardly GPO\'s fault.) Let\'s hope Sibelius 4.0 adds envelope support.

So, overall they can work together, but they\'re not yet ideal together. Remember that GPO\'s only been out a couple months or so, and the player has already been updated, and GPO Studio released. I would imagine that it won\'t take long for some of the above issues to be worked out.

Envelopes might be another story. I predict them to be in Sibelius 4.0 at the end of the year - in the best case. Could be never! In the meantime, use a sequencer. The performance results are generally much better than what a notation program can do.

[E minor]

- You have to match staff and sound manually by setting the channel for each staff in Sibelius to match your GPO template. A minor issue. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Pretty much what you would have to do if you\'re using soundfonts. Which I have been using.
Since GPO ignores program changes, and Sibelius can\'t change channel mid-staff, you can\'t change articulations easily, say from arco to pizz. There\'s a workaround, but it\'s not a fun one. Since GPO is not articulation-intensive, this only affects a small number of cases. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Like I said, I\'ve been using soundfonts to do mp3\'s, which usually means having to create a duplicate score for this purpose only. I would simple make two 1st Violin staves. One for arco and one for pizz, which is probably your workaround.

- Since most GPO instruments use the mod-wheel for dynamics, and Sibelius uses velocity, your dynamic markings, hairpins and the espressivo feature won\'t work properly. The workaround is to manually send a mod-wheel command. Very not fun. This is my biggest concern. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Can\'t say I know much about this Mod-wheel. . .

- Since Sibelius doesn\'t support envelopes, it will never get the magic out of GPO that a sequencer can. (This one\'s hardly GPO\'s fault.) Let\'s hope Sibelius 4.0 adds envelope support. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I\'m assuming that you save your Sib. score as a midi, and then go from there. This doesn\'t work so well in the sequencer?

[Jeff Hurchalla]

Jon,
\"Since most GPO instruments use the mod-wheel for dynamics, and Sibelius uses velocity, your dynamic markings, hairpins and the espressivo feature won\'t work properly. The workaround is to manually send a mod-wheel command. Very not fun. This is my biggest concern.\"

We\'re making a change to GPO Studio which should be available soon, which should make things much easier in this respect. I\'ll have more details later images/icons/smile.gif I just wanted you to know we\'re addressing it.

[JonFairhurst]

Originally posted by Jeff Hurchalla:
We\'re making a change to GPO Studio which should be available soon, which should make things much easier in this respect. I\'ll have more details later images/icons/smile.gif I just wanted you to know we\'re addressing it. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">As I wrote, this is my biggest concern - and I\'m confident that it will be addresses based on Gary\'s previous replies. Your reply helps confirm it.

E-minor, if you\'re using Soundfonts, GPO will be a big improvement. Items 1 and 2 above will be the same as always for you. Item 3 is a temporary problem.

Regarding item 4, yes, I often move my Sib scores into a sequencer and apply expression. The mod-wheel vs. velocity issue is a bit tricky here as your dynamic markings (ppp-fff) will be controlling attack. The workaound is to re-draw/record expression, and redraw the velocity as needed.

Lately, I\'ve been playing in my compositions to the sequencer by hand, rather than using Sibelius\' MIDI out. I use sounds with Sib for notation and counterpoint checking only. Then I move to the performance mode to get the best sound.

GPO has a real strength in the pre-notation phase as well. You can use it with a sequencer to to a cr@ppy sketch, just to work out basic melodies, chords and bass. It\'s really fast. Then do the notation/counterpoint/orchestration in Sibelius with a light soundset. Then back to GPO (and/or other top samples) for the musical performance.

How does GPO make me feel? Better every day.

[E minor]

Regarding item 4, yes, I often move my Sib scores into a sequencer and apply expression. The mod-wheel vs. velocity issue is a bit tricky here as your dynamic markings (ppp-fff) will be controlling attack. The workaound is to re-draw/record expression, and redraw the velocity as needed. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Interesting. . . must be a programming thing for the which they treat dynamics in this way. So where do articulations such as \"tenuto\" fit into the picture. I\'m obviously going to notate according to industry standards (as much as one can defined industry standards) so how much work is it to redefine these things which appear on the score to make them effective/work in GPO. In other words, if dynamics are affecting attack(?) What do accents and tenutos do, or how do they fit into the picture?

Am I right or wrong in thinking that these libraries are not geared toward notation software first and formost, but is more of a secondary thing? I use the \"mouse\" for every note I input. Where does that leave someone like myself who is all thumbs at the keyboard?

[JonFairhurst]

Originally posted by E minor:
Interesting. . . must be a programming thing for the which they treat dynamics in this way. So where do articulations such as \"tenuto\" fit into the picture. I\'m obviously going to notate according to industry standards (as much as one can defined industry standards) so how much work is it to redefine these things which appear on the score to make them effective/work in GPO. In other words, if dynamics are affecting attack(?) What do accents and tenutos do, or how do they fit into the picture?<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">The best solution would be to move the Sib MIDI file into a sequencer. For accents, draw the velocity loud for big attacks. Sibelius handles note duration for you. This doesn\'t change. The last sequencer trick is to put down the pedal for legato phrases and tenutos. You could also do the pedal thing in Sibelius with a hidden pedal line.



Am I right or wrong in thinking that these libraries are not geared toward notation software first and formost, but is more of a secondary thing? I use the \"mouse\" for every note I input. Where does that leave someone like myself who is all thumbs at the keyboard? <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Gary has assured me that supporting notation apps is really important for them. They ship Overture SE with GPO. The student market is a key target. It\'s just that the integration isn\'t quite there within the first two months of GPO shipment. All indications are that this will start to change shortly.

[E minor]

Thanks for your insights Jon. . .

[Wirebird]

How using GPO makes me feel? It makes me feel sorry... Sorry that I have too many other things that I need to do instead of using GPO all day! images/icons/mad.gif
But hopefully I will have more time soon to devote to composing with GPO. I totally love it and have already got a lot of inspiration from using it.

Wirebird