Workaround to "stuck notes" issue in Logic

[CadeBryant]

As you probably know, the Kontakt Player has always had a bug (when running as a plug-in in Logic) whereby if you stop a sequence in the middle of a sustained note, the note will sometimes keep sustaining (you\'ll hear it when you start the sequence again).

At first I thought the only workaround was to remove and re-instantiate the plug-in (or close and re-open the entire file). But I found an easier way:

After you stop the sequence, select the track where the stuck note exists, then hold down enough keys on your keyboard to exceed the polyphony assigned to that voice. The sound will then stop.

Hardly elegant - but it does work.

[Cerrabore]

That happens with my sequencer (using GPO studio) unfortunately. It has a feature where moving your mouse pointer over a note will make it play, so I just run the mouse pointer over the staff to make the notes \"un-stick\" themselves.

[robfromholland]

Hi,

I have another, probably related, sticky notes problem with Logic 5.5 for Windows and GPO, which I find really irritating:

In my case, as soon as I press the stop button, all notes are switched off. So far so good.

But when I jump to the start of my song and press the play button again (or the record button), then the aborted notes (that were playing when I stopped the sequencer), are played again. The only solution I found is, as you already told, to select the track with the sticky note and press a few keys.

I am working on a mockup of two pieces of Ravel\'s Mother Goose Suite. Often more then 5 instruments are sounding at the same time. So I can have 5 or more sticky notes on different tracks, so this means pressing a few keys for each track after restarting the sequencer. I also have to find out which of the in total 20 tracks gives the problem. images/icons/frown.gif

Does this problem also occur in Cubase SX/SL?

Greetings,

Rob.

[dnortana]

I\'ve had this same problem in Logic, and have found no solution, other than the workarounds you report. I have reported this to NI, and hopefully they will find the problem and correct it.

I do not experience this in Cubase SX2 on PC, nor in Digital Performer on Mac.

Trond

[LHall]

I reported this problem at the end of the year and spent some time on the phone with Tom. Last thing he told me was that NI was finally able to duplicate this problem, and that they would be working on it.

Hey Tom, if you\'re there, any news on this front?

L Hall

[kensuguro]

I\'m also on logic 5.5 on XP and this problems\' killin\' me.

[Tom Hopkins]

No news so far from NI. Tonight I received the Logic environment from Peter (discussed on this thread: http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=001220 (\"http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=001220\") ) and I’m curious to see if it has any effect on this issue as well as the ones it was designed to correct. Logic has proven to be, by far, the most problematic of the sequencing platforms. I’m hoping we can at least find workarounds for the most irritating quirks.

As one of the many orphaned PC Logic users I have been getting familiar with Sonar 3.1 recently and it has none of these problems on my system. It even has a nice feature for setting cc1 for each track to a moderate level automatically upon load of a template song file. I don’t have CubaseSX so I’d be curious to know how things are working on that platform. Anyway, when we (or our industrious users) have some strong Logic solutions to offer we will post them for everyone to use.

Tom

[LHall]

Thanks Tom,

How do you like Sonar?

L Hall

[Tom Hopkins]

Lhall,

The audio/mixing features in Sonar 3.1 are first rate. I can’t say enough good things about this part of the program. On my system audio is very stable with low latency and the ability to route/configure leaves little room for criticism. The Sonitus EQ being hardwired into the channel strips is great and then there’s the Lexicon reverb. Very impressive. I like Sonar\'s audio/mixing better than Logic 5.5.

Sonar handles VST instruments very well - much better than the incomplete support offered in Logic 5.5. It also doesn’t seem to suffer from some of the controller quirks that are so exasperating in Logic (look at all the posts).

Sonar’s MIDI features are mostly fine although this is where I miss my Logic Environment. I’ve gotten used to relying upon the advanced Logic Environment features during my programming chores. I would feel better about it if I could at least discover a way in Sonar to do real-time controller remapping before the data reaches the tracks. This is essential for remapping things like cc2 to cc1 so that a breath controller could quickly and easily be used with GPO. If that feature is lurking in there someplace I haven’t found it yet. A separate program like Building Blocks could give me the Logic Environment features but it would be nice if the ability to do such advanced real-time MIDI manipulations was already built into Sonar.

The only area in Sonar where I have a major criticism is the inadequate notation section which will be of almost no use to me – a big step down from Logic. The reason, 15 years ago, I chose Logic’s ancestor called “Notator” was because of its integrated notation. In the case of Sonar, acceptable notation will require a separate program like Overture, Finale, or Sibelius. I’d much prefer high quality notation to be fully integrated into Sonar just as it is in Logic (CubaseSX I think has a distinct advantage here on PC although I haven’t tried it yet). This may not be as important for others but I learned to read music notation before I learned to read English and I find it uncomfortable to separate it from the other aspects of music production.

All in all, with the exceptions above, I generally like very much what I’ve explored so far. Sonar’s audio side is especially capable and that’s one of the most important things.

Tom

[spunkmeyer]

Yes, this is a major issue that hopefully will be fixed soon. GPO is pretty much unusable in Logic! Yes, there is the workaround, but that is a complete buzzkill and not practical for any serious composing with this project.

I don\'t see how NI can afford to not fix this as it affects the full version Kontakt as well. It\'s a shame as this is a great product that I am reluctant to use or recommend.

spunkmeyer

[dnortana]

The Logic problems are exasperating, to be sure - but I don\'t know if it\'s clear where the responsibility for the problem lies. To my knowledge, all we know is that the combination Kontakt Player/Kontakt/Logic isn\'t a happy one yet. Is it possible that NI has done their job properly, but Logic itself is flawed?? I\'ve been visiting the Logic forum, and there seems to be a host of long-standing bugs and gripes that remain unresolved after a substantial period of time.

Trond

[spunkmeyer]

You are totally right dnortana. The problem could be with Logic, as is the case with the Mod Wheel reset issue. But if Emagic is not going to fix these problems, then Kontakt needs to be coded around them. Kudos to Garritan on the great samples, if only they were usable!

[Garritan]

I just heard from Native Instruments about some of the bugs in Logic. It was confirmed that therre are known Logic bugs that are slated to be fixed in the 6.4 update.

Gary Garritan

[Tom Hopkins]

Unfortunately, there won’t be any comparable updates to the PC version of Logic – it’s a dead platform. It remains to be seen if NI can make changes to the player that side-step the Logic problems. I just wish Emagic had completed their VST implementation before they closed down development for the PC. Oh well, cross your fingers for NI (or head to a different sequencer, like me).

Tom

[LHall]

I just sent an email to Tom to this effect, but I\'ll throw it out to the rest of you.

Why is this being called a Logic problem? This stuck note problem doesn\'t happen to my NI B4, or my EWQLSO Kompact engine. Same company doing all the interfaces. In fact, it appears that the Kompact and Kontact engines are essentially two different versions of the same thing.

If they can make it work with Logic PC on those products, why can\'t they make it work on GPO.

Seems to me to be a cop out on NI\'s part to say it\'s a Logic problem! Meanwhile, I have to jump through hoops to use GPO.

[rJames]

LHall,
I think they\'re being called \"Logic bugs\" because NI has found them to be related only to Logic.

It may very well be a conflict between the way KontactPlayer and Logic do things. If NI is doing things \"by the books\" then they\'re not going to change things and then have them change again when eMagic and Apple clean up Logic.

Gary\'s comment seems to be about Logic 6.4 (which should be LogicPro due imminently)(sp?)

I\'ve been bugging them about a few things as well and have received no response.

After playing with GPO and Logic since early after GPOs release I can say that Logic DOES have some programming issues and that NI has certainly made some headway and has shown effort.

[Haydn]

The Kontakt engine is much more complex than the Kompakt engine.

[spunkmeyer]

I discovered a workaround for this that I find easier then the current ones. Before you stop the song, mute all the GPO tracks. When no more notes are playing, stop the song. This will ensure that no notes get stuck when the song stops. Muting all tracks within the current arrange folder is pretty easy -- you can right click any track\'s mute button, or use the key command. I have found this to be a life saver in the last few days.

spunkmeyer

[LHall]

I understand what you\'re saying. But my point is, if the problem is with Logic, why does the Kompact engine with EW work perfectly? The Logic bug doesn\'t seem to affect Kompact, so my reasoning is that the problem lies as much or more in the Kontact engine as it does Logic.

By the way, Tom and Gary have been more than accomodating in trying to resolve this problem. I\'m not pickin\' a bone with them at all.

[UNIX_GURU]

I have not seen this problem with any plugins in logic, I think it is a NI bug.

[Garritan]

Originally posted by Tim Monaghan:
Anything recent on this? Should I just switch to sonar? Im anxious to get started with GPO but its pointless with the Logic software at this point.

Tim Monaghan <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Tim,

Native Instruments is working on the next upgrade to the Player and hopefully will have it posted in the next few weeks. This will solve some of the Logic issues however some issues still remain that have to do with Logic itself. The Emagic Logic 6.4 update, due out any day for many days, will reputedly solve the stuck notes problems.

Gary Garritan

[Tim Monaghan]

Ok, Ill try it. ive just been a Logic user for years... im scared!

images/icons/wink.gif

Thanks for the advice, Ive heard alot of ppl say sonar really rocks. My last cakewalk experience was an older version of cakewalk.

Ill give it a whirl anyhow.

Thanks again
Tim

[Tim Monaghan]

Anything recent on this? Should I just switch to sonar? Im anxious to get started with GPO but its pointless with the Logic software at this point.

Tim Monaghan

[Shazbot]

Any further news about this stuck note issue? I was trying to configure GPO in n-Track studio, just to see how well it would work in there, but anytime I hit stop, the notes haaaaaaang...

[LHall]

Hey Gary,

Sorry for bringing up some old news, but have there been any updates that fix the "stuck notes" problem for us Emapple orphans using Logic 5.5.1 on a PC? I see there have been fixes for 6.x, but any hope for the rest of us hanging on to our PCs?

My use of GPO has been very limited simply because of this hassle. I'd really love to use it more.
LHall

[Garritan]

Larry,

I had heard that the latest version of Logic fixed this bug.

Logic 'Stuck Notes" Problem: If notes are getting stuck notes after you play them, try this: In "Options/Preferences" there's an option for "Reset Preferences". This offers a menu of controllers that are to be reset when the transport is stopped. CC1 IS on the list, but (of course), it's broken - known Logic bug. The Panic/All Notes Off feature works by double-clicking the "Input/Output" window on the Logic transport. This should kill the hung notes.

http://www.garritan.com/GPO-LogicPage.html (http://www.garritan.com/GPO-LogicPage.html)

[LHall]

I guess that means I'm outa luck since I'm on PC and can't use the latest version of Logic. Very frustating indeed.

I believe the fault lies not with Logic, but with Native Instruments since everything I own works perfectly in Logic EXCEPT GPO and Stormdrum - both Kompact based interfaces I believe.

Is there no way to get NI to admit this and fix it? I'm really tired of spending hard earned cash only to find I can't use a product just because I don't want to throw away the PCs I bought last year.

[Tom Hopkins]

LHall,

You are not out of luck. I've spent months examining possible workarounds for the Logic Audio PC problems and recently posted the results of my investigation. The suggestions I posted explain an approach that solves all of the problems that have been plagueing PC users - at least it solves them on my system with Logic 5.5. That includes no more stuck notes, independent (not global) control of cc7 data by midi channel within an instance, and no jump to zero when the stop button is hit. I've tested it successfully with both MIDI controllers and Logic automation. The solution is not without compromise as detailed in the post and it may not be exactly the solution you are after but it makes GPO usable with Logic PC and eliminates the problems when used in this manner. With other solutions entirely out of my control this is the best I can offer and represents a way to get Logic PC users up and running. In case you missed it on the support forum the post can be found here:

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21844

I hope this helps,

Tom

[LHall]

Thanks Tom,

I did miss this in the support forum. Thanks for your hard work on this problem.

I still instist that this is an NI problem, though. All my EWQLSO programs work fine on Logic 5.5 PC. So does my B4. I do not understand how they can make one product that works fine and another that doesn't when it's all the same basic engine. The fact that the other things work fine tell me it's not a Logic problem.

Is there anyone at NI that we can plead our case to?

Thanks again,
Larry