POLL: GPO USERS ONLY Support Forum...

[Alan Lastufka]

What would you guys think of us having our own forum, in addition to this NS forum.

We could set up a GPO Users forum that only actual GPO customers could register for. This way we would have an environment where newbie GPOers and seasoned GPOers could feel free to post their music and their experiences without having to wait for the shower of attacks that seem to always follow.

Just a thought... what do you guys think?

[Daedalus]

Well, I for one am not a GPO user but I am still interested in hearing the demos of noobs as well as pros.

I hope you will still be posting some demos here...

[Joseph Burrell]

Considering the environment lately, I vote yes.

[robgb]

You get a yes, from me. A group like my yahoo GPO group, only hopefully with more traffic... images/icons/smile.gif

[Alan Lastufka]

@ Daedalus: I\'m sure most GPOers would still continue to post over here as well... I know I would. There are just some pieces, maybe ones that are still in progress that get torn apart here because people don\'t take the time to read what the topic starter is posting...

@ Joseph: Thanks for the support, hopefully we can grab Gary\'s attention with this one!

I only brought it up because Bela D Media has their own support forum for DIVA and the soon to be released VOCI and FOV, and we\'re having a BLAST over there, with no trolls and all...

[Bela D Media]

All is well and good @ BELA D users forum.
Talking about everything from Samples to \"who\'s your favorite Rock N Roll band\" - That would be RUSH by the way images/icons/smile.gif

Go for it G-Man!

Francis Belardino
www.beladmedia.com (\"http://www.beladmedia.com\")

[Kleven]

You get a yes from me!

[peter269]

I would model VSL and have a GOS/GPO Forum then with appropriate sub-categories below.

[William West]

You get a yes from me as well. You could not pay me to post any of my compositions on Northern Sounds! That said - it is an invaluable resource that I read daily (4 and 5 times daily). It has given me great insight into producing music and solved many technical issues that I have faced.

For now, I\'d rather have my standard hobbyist recordings and techniques than to face the brutal attacks that so many artists are put through on this site. I compose only for myself for the fun of it. Posting here would end all of that.

So the notion of a forum with a more nurturing environment focused on bettering the individual\'s quality of music, sequencing, recording, and mastering techniques would be a great change. I would love to learn how to be a better artist at my craft - I\'m lost here and have no where to get advise when it comes to my recordings.

On a more positive note, I am enjoying GPO beyond measure! And am eagerly awaiting GOS2, solo strings, oh heck, anything Garritan!!

William

[Alan Lastufka]

William,

That is a GREAT response... you should write our MISSION STATEMENT... images/icons/smile.gif

So, Gary, what do you think?

[YBaCuO]

YES! (AND PLEASE HURRY)

[Bela D Media]

To all except one - please ignore

Your IP address has been traced.

[Shazbot]

I\'m going back through some of the recent demo threads, and I\'m not sure I follow you on the bashing/troll thing. Unless I missed something or perhaps a nasty thread was removed? I mean, one person kind of bashed the sound of my first demo, but you know, no big deal.

I\'d prefer to keep all things GPO in one forum, but it would be nice if there were some linked forums like most message boards have, such as...

General GPO Discussion
Announcements
Off Topic
GPO Feature Requests
Etc.

Btw, Mr. Bela, Rush is one of my very favorites, too. Didn\'t care for their latest album much (and it\'s a shame how the mastering was butchered), but I seem to like every other album of theirs since the 80\'s (and earlier, when everything they did was phenomenal), so I\'ll probably like the next one more.

[robgb]

Check the OT section Shaz. Or better yet, DON\'T check it. Why dredge that stuff up anymore. Let\'s keep this positive.

I give this idea a SECOND yes. A dedicated forum is a great idea.

[Shazbot]

Ah, I didn\'t even realize there was an OT forum, as I\'ve only ever linked to the GPO section. From a cursory look, I\'m still not sure I could follow what was going on there, but apparently some posts were deleted, which doesn\'t help me understand it (though I\'m sure I wouldn\'t miss them).

Anyway, that is the Off-Topic forum and this is the GPO forum, which has always been very civil, so I don\'t think it\'s absolutely necessary to have another forum. But of course, if there is another GPO forum, I\'ll be there.

[Crackbaby]

Im both for and against it. I dont think it would be a good idea if half of us was hanging here, and the other half on the new forum .. leaving ten percent on both (im a mathematical genious)

Anyone talked to NS about the possibility to have some subcategories here? I feel a great need for that. I posted a new demo here and one day later it was on page two. Didnt get any comments at all images/icons/rolleyes.gif Perhaps its all bad, but i dont think so images/icons/confused.gif
Its not like i want everybody to say it is the best they ever heard (well, it would be nice if they sent me a lot of money so i could spend the rest of my life doing it), its more about comments that can help me improve so i can get in to certain schools.

So.. i say yes to a better forum, and i say yes to keep it here graemlins/tounge_images/icons/smile.gif

(here is the link to the thread where my uncommented song is http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=001191 (\"http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=001191\") )

[Wazzy]

My initial vote is YES! My only question is what about the posting on the bottom of the Support page that says
GARRITAN ORCHESTRA FORUM

A Support Forums for the Garritan Orchestral Libraries is being developed and will be posted soon.

<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I realize that this has been like that since the GPO site has been around but don\'t you think that Gary should respond to this first. Maybe he really has something that is almost ready to go and it would be much better coming as a part of the GPO site and also monitored by them. Just a thought.

Dave

[J.Lehtonen]

Yes why not. But could you just wait a little longer so that all those people who have pre-ordered GPO through a dealer (and there must be MANY) get theirs delivered! I\'ve been waiting my copy for 3 months now. Ordered from T&S England early November and still waiting. Not blaming anybody as there must be a huge back-log of orders, I appreciate that. My only \"salvation\" so far has been that I could at least read and listen what other people are accomplishing with GPO. Don\'t take that away from me pleeaase ;-)

But seriously, how long still, anybody with facts?

Jouni

[Aziraphal]

I\'m not sure it\'s a good idea - apart from the effort of double-posting and double-checking for the answers, there\'s another aspect of life: What doesn\'t kill us, makes us stronger.

Specifically: When another library fan comes by and says \"GPO is crap because it doesn\'t do...\" ... prove him wrong with a musical example instead of re-flaming, and win several doubters over to our side thus.

And if people don\'t like your music... constructive critique by experienced musicians helps you grow, and ignoring malicious comments improves your immunity system against the virus-riddled world of music industry.
Cheers.

[William West]

After reading the comments here, I have a few more thoughts on the topic.
I do not believe it was anybody’s intent when mentioning the thought of a new forum to in any way divide the loyalty and readership of Northern Sounds. My comments in my post above, no matter how negative, were to express some disappointment in the overall mood that sometimes invades the postings on the Overall web-site, which sadly creeps into the Garritan Forum from time to time.

Currently, I use Northern Sounds and its forums as an educational tool as there is much to learn from the knowledge base of its members. Hearing examples of the works of other artists and the constructive criticism that follows is extremely helpful in honing my craft.
When the criticism becomes personal, vicious and unprofessional (as it does somewhat frequently) it changes the entire dynamic of the site – there is NO excuse in one human being treating another the way they do here every now and then. When egos flare and snide comments flow, it is very uncomfortable to read. I personally do not have time in my life for that and have to skip to a more informative posting. Maybe I’m overly serious but I only have limited time on this earth and too much to learn to get muddled down in the soap opera that occasionally plays out here.

Anybody that has purchased from Mr. Garritan and Company would agree that the level of customer service and support is amazing. In turn, the loyalty and dedication of their following has created a community that is strong and well-knit that is also dedicated to the well being and success of each of its members. As a hobbyist, with a lot to learn, I would enjoy a forum or other medium that would further this experience.

That’s all.

William

[UNIX_GURU]

Perhaps a form can be put on the Garritan web site, one like the Bela D Media site has.
I put the phpbb2 form on a new (1 week old!) site I just started and it works great, Bela D uses the same type of form (not the same skin) as me and you can see it works well for them.

Take a look:

http://www.clarkaudio.com/phpBB2/ (\"http://www.clarkaudio.com/phpBB2/\")

[oldh]

Hi William,
I don\'t mean this post as a joke: Do some speed reading and you will quickly have sorted out the mails you don\'T want or need to read without losing too much time...
Harry

[Karl Garrett]

I think some people must live on line and be independently wealthy. images/icons/wink.gif I have gained a lot by scouring the info on this forum and a few others, but time is so demanding that often days go by before I can get to all of them. I wouldn’t care so much where the host was, but dividing up this so useful gathering would make a difficult process even more so for me.

I guess if I had my choice, I’d like to see it on Gary’s site. I think if he could get someone to monitor it closely, it would be easier to do things like setup categories, provide a moderating tone for aggressive conversation, keep trolls at bay, etc. It could only enhance the already intense enthusiasm for his superb products.

[Bela D Media]

I can not truly speak for Gary but I am sure most know that he and I are working together now on a project.

Anyway - I can speak about the BELA D forum. Registered user may sign on and once there - they have access to special discounted shopping carts, product updates, company news and a few other cool things. I made this area as it is a great way to speak to all of my customers privately and at once. I feel that a customer deserves a place to get the latest info and etc without having to sift through a 1000 threads elsewhere.

To me, the forum made by us, is for them as another level of customer care. There are friendships being made and ideas being shared and all of this is under a civil and professional umbrella.

Even if BELA D had it\'s own section at NS... I would still offer the users forum as we do.

This does not mean that BELA D is not all over NS. Of course not - NS RULES! images/icons/smile.gif

[Headcheese]

I am sort of surprised that Gary has not posted on this - he sent me a link a while back to a new forum he had in the works right off his own site. Or maybe he abandoned that idea. In any case I would not spend time putting anything up until Gary chimed in.

[shushki]

Sometimes it gets crazy at NS, but the vast majority of people seem okay. You will still get difficult people no matter where the forums are. It would be nice to see some sub-categories divided into areas of interest. There are so many posts that posts get lost by having only one category.

[Edi]

We may already have just what is desired here: NI, the KONTAKT people have a discussion group on their forum called,\"Powered by NI\". It is intended for discussions of products such as GPO which use NI sampling engines. This forum has the advantage of being open to be read by all, but only NI registered users(this includes GPO customers) can write to it. I believe this is monitored both by NI and Garritan, which is ideal.

Ed

[Garritan]

GPO is growing at a phenomenal rate and we\'re just at the starting gate. There are some positive things happening and the user base is rapidly growing. We need a better way to handle the growth and manage information.

I understand the need, as Crackbaby and Francis suggest, to have forum subcategories. Peoples demos get lost and their questions get buried to page two before anyone can answer. Being able to get to the sections of interest \"without having to sift through a 1000 threads\" as Francis points out would be a benefit. Karl\'s mention of \"setup categories\" would make things easier to navigate. Peter, the VSL model is a very good one and I like the structure and the comaraderie there. It does seem that a private support forum would be advantageous from an organizational point of view. Crackbaby asked \"Anyone talked to NS about the possibility to have some subcategories here?\" Shazbot - maybe your idea of linked forums would work. I\'ll ask Papachalk about the possibilities.

Some of you have expressed the need for a more positive environment. By its very nature an open forum is designed to foster discussion and sometimes that discussion becomes heated and impassioned. But if a forum becomes an ongoing clash of personalities and hostilities, the discussion becomes obscured by unnecessary noise.

As many more GPO users come aboard; many of them will be students, newbies, hobbyists and well as veteran musicians. I truly want a welcoming, civil and vibrant community for all GPO users and a place that fosters creativity and discussion. Francis, your experience about \"friendships being made and ideas being shared and all of this is under a civil and professional umbrella\" is the kind of place I would want for GPO users.

William, when you say \"you could not pay me to post any of my compositions on Northern Sounds!\" this concerns me very much. I would not want anyone to feel that way in a GPO forum. As Aziraphal points out, constructive critique does help you grow and winning people over by example is the way to go. Constructive criticism has helped me to learn how to improve my products for updates and also to develop better products. But sometimes the criticism on the boards is destructive and many have expressed that sentiment.

In my view, forums are about building community. To build a sense of community, there must be the process of construction and building up a place where people exchange ideas, help each other, connect, learn and become more knowledgeable in making music. William\'s vision of \"a forum with a more nurturing environment focused on bettering the individual\'s quality of music, sequencing, recording, and mastering techniques ... to be a better artist at my craft ...to get advise when it comes to my recordings.\" - Does sound like a great mission statement.

I had seriously considered starting a GPO support forum since the GPO site has been around as Wazzy pointed out. We started working on one many months ago but became too busy to pursue it. Unix_guru, phpBB is an excellent choice and I like the many design possibilities.

An additional support forum would not necessarily be a replacement of Northern Sounds. If we do a separate support forum it would be more of a supplement. Northern Sounds is a great place and will continue to thrive regardless of what happens with a GPO forum.

I welcome more thoughts on this topic.

Gary Garritan

[Declan]

Thanks for the reply Gary. I\'m glad the GPO community is growing rapidly - I still know a lot of people who want it.

Things are moving fast everywhere, this product does seem to move even more quickly than most and I\'m grateful for that. I look forward to the evolution of the GPO, it\'s community et al. I also hope you sell it in such great volume you can provide a great upgrade path to GOS2. images/icons/tongue.gif Keep up the great work.

[Boneweasel]

I personally don\'t feel there is a need for a new forum.

I can definitely undertand the need for subcategories though. That could be very helpful so new threads don\'t quickly end up on the next page. From the type of posts that are here it seems there would need to be a subcategory for support, and another for user demos/critiques. And maybe one more for annoucements and suggestions.

Honestly though I like the way things are currently set up.


On the issue of flaming, positive environment, etc,

I have had quite a bit of experience with being flamed on message boards. Me and a friend of mine started posting to message boards a few years back in order to get feedback on a webcomic that we had started. We learned very quickly that you have to be thick- skinned when dealing with people on messageboards. A large majority of comments would be down right brutal.

As a result of what I have seen, the flaming at NS is very tame compared to other boards on the internet. Furthermore, I don\'t recall seeing any form of a negative environment in the Garritan Forum.

I can definitely say, that the Garritan Forum here at NS is by far the best forum I visit. The people here are really nice, and extremely helpful. Now that I own GPO, I stop in at least once a day. I have learned a lot from this forum just by lurking, and I would like to say thank you to everyone here.

[robgb]

Gary (Garritan), in one post you\'ve manage to say exactly what I\'ve been TRYING to say about constructive vs. destructive criticism for weeks now. Thank you.

Glad to hear GPO is doing so well. You deserve it.

[crr]

for me the first thing to do is to create categories. That will help navigating in the forum. Then if necessary you could create a dedicated forum for GPO. For now, as I know, there are only GPO and GSO so you could manage both in one forum using subcategories. Just do a step and then see how it works.
This is my opinion
Michael

[shushki]

Either way having your own forum and/or one at NS you cant go wrong.

[Garritan]

Thanks for your input everyone. I have asked PapaChalk about the various possibilities. Also, I am working on a draft with various categories and subcategories. I\'ll will try to post it soon and ask your ideas and suggestions.

Gary Garritan

[nexus]

I\'ll just say Gary, that another forum created out of this one is completely uneeded.

It would STILL have some demo bashing and NS is not alone in this (though it does seem worse here most of the time...been much better lately though).

I feel a better atmosphere here at the GPO side of NS than over on the EW QLSO side (man they really have some a**h*les there!!!).

The trouble here is mostly from members of other forums hopping over here for a quick bash or two at GPO and it\'s users.

Another forum may be moderated differently but still have it\'s own share of the aforementioned a**h*les! It\'s a fact of life that the internet encourages this negative side of human behaviour, with people saying things to each other that they never would face to face. It\'s the \"world without a mask\". Some might think this is good, but I\'m from a generation that does not.

I agree with the person who said they have little time to \'live\' on these forums, they are too busy making a living and making music. I not independantly wealthy but am in very poor health, being partially disabled, and I tend to \'live\' on the forums much more than the average person.

I DO spend too much time here lately rather than working on my music, but I don\'t want to get heavily into music projects until my new PC is finished, after which I will probably fade some from this and other forums I belong to as my music making kicks into gear. I have been in and out of the NS forums since joining a couple years ago, it\'s just lately I\'ve been \'hanging around here\'.

So I think another forum to cover with my attentions would be a waste. I think its divided about 50/50 here whether we should have another forum.

My vote, I have to say, is NO.

(P.S.: I still don\'t feel like putting my stuff up against some of these real pros here and \'running the NS forum gauntlet\'. I know you would like a truly open forum here but your\'re a nice guy Gary, and as stated above, some at NS ARE NOT!!)