OT: Violinists demand more pay

[Mike Kelley]

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2004/s1073945.htm (\"http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2004/s1073945.htm\")

So now is the time for GPO and GOS to come in and eliminate all of these prima donnas <g>.

[MalteRathke]

Yeah .. people can be really annoying here in good ol\' germany images/icons/cool.gif

Malte

[Mike Kelley]

I\'ve given some thought to this story and now I think I ought to get paid for how many lines of code I write.

Yep, that\'s it -- the longer (and more bloated) the program the better. Why should the guys who write optimized code (and thus perform less work) get the same money as I do?

[Crackbaby]

i agree with you tremolo. I got a violin this christmas and so far i only learnd to play random harmonics images/icons/tongue.gif

[RichG]

I do not agree.

[GigaLove]

An interesting discussion indeed, and although there is something true about that I don\'t think that this would be a good idea. A band always consists of more or less sophisticated instruments. That is right. But each of the instruments is equally important to model the whole Sound. And paying the string players more than the others would disturb the peace among the musicians... so this would affect the harmony of the whole Sound again.

[Styxx]

\"I dont think the real point should be about the number of notes played. I would say that the difficulty of learning an instrument be the factor. I bet anyone here would agree that the violin is harder to learn and perfect than percussion\"!!

I do not dispute the fact that learning to play the violin well is not a hard task and may be it is the most difficult to master. However, to say it is more difficult to master than percussion and visa versa is more or less a bias opinion. I am learning violin now and can say comfortably it is not an easy task. But, as a percussionist I must say there are aspects of playing the various instruments in the percussion family that are just as difficult to master as mastering tremelo on the violin.
Perform on snare drum a single stroke roll at quarter = 120 evenly for the duration of a minute in time with a metronome. Do it at different dynamics and tempos and keep it as absolutely even as possible.
No, the point isn\'t how many notes. Yes it is the difficulty of learning. I will not step any further in this dispute. I\'ve been a percussionist for years but my first love was and allways will be the violin. I was only making light of the subject. (sorry for all the spelling errors)

[Mike Kelley]

Somehow this all reminds me of the story of the television repairman (back when there was such a thing :>) who came to the house and opened up the back of the television and looked in at all the parts and components and then reached into his kit and got a very tiny transistor and then reached deep into the cabinet and put it in among the thousands of other parts.

The television started working and the repairman said to the homeowner \"That will be $60 please.\" \"60 dollars!\" the homeowner shouted. \"For one tiny little part? That\'s ridiculous.\"

The repairman reached in again and took the transistor out and handed it to the man. \"The part is free\", said the repairperson. \"It\'s $60 for knowing where to put it.\"

I don\'t care if there\'s only one cymbal crash in the whole score -- the money paid to the percussionist is for knowing when to sound it.

[nexus]

Originally posted by Styxx:
\"The violinists claim that because they play more notes than their fellow musicians they deserve to be paid more\".
Yeah right so percussionist should be paid more because we have to carry more and heavier equipment around right! Let\'s see, I have a couple caddy\'s of various size sticks and mallets and not to mention heads and....but wait...I play violin too! Not as well mind you but how many notes are we talking here? This could become lucrative! <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Strange as it may seem, 1st violinists were traditionally paid more in top orchestras like the Philly Philharmonic. This practice wained after WWII as the union got pressured.

[Styxx]

\"The violinists claim that because they play more notes than their fellow musicians they deserve to be paid more\".
Yeah right so percussionist should be paid more because we have to carry more and heavier equipment around right! Let\'s see, I have a couple caddy\'s of various size sticks and mallets and not to mention heads and....but wait...I play violin too! Not as well mind you but how many notes are we talking here? This could become lucrative!

[tremolo]

on a related note, I have often wondered about the plight of real performers with the advent of the virtual orchestra. Afterall, isnt it true that the human dexterity is what causes those remarkable range of articulations that the virtual orchestras are trying deperately to mimic?

I for one support the violists, and real orchestras as well !! I myself use a virtual orchestra (cannot even think of a real one!!) but the concept of 100 people playing together in a concert must never die. It will be the most pitiful thing since there wont be any standards to look up to.

If I was playing with a group of 20 violinists in total anonymity, I would atleast like to get paid well!!

[tremolo]

Originally posted by Styxx:
\"The violinists claim that because they play more notes than their fellow musicians they deserve to be paid more\".
Yeah right so percussionist should be paid more because we have to carry more and heavier equipment around right! Let\'s see, I have a couple caddy\'s of various size sticks and mallets and not to mention heads and....but wait...I play violin too! Not as well mind you but how many notes are we talking here? This could become lucrative! <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I dont think the real point should be about the number of notes played. I would say that the difficulty of learning an instrument be the factor. I bet anyone here would agree that the violin is harder to learn and perfect than percussion!!

[Junkmonkey]

Do soloists get paid more?

[GigaLove]

Originally posted by Styxx:
\"I dont think the real point should be about the number of notes played. I would say that the difficulty of learning an instrument be the factor. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I would say both of it. Both factors are important: it sounds bizarre, but the number of notes are relevant: it is a difference, if you wait 20 minutes for your timbale stroke or if you play constantly string runnings.

Perhaps it was also the intention of the string players to take the argument of the number of notes because this is a measurable unit. The discussion about the difficulty of certain instruments can turn into a personal discussion. And that does not help.

Anyway... I would say that\'s a part of the game. Too different payments would be an unbearable preference.

[Styxx]

Originally posted by GigaLove:
</font><blockquote><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><hr /><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Originally posted by Styxx:
\"I dont think the real point should be about the number of notes played. I would say that the difficulty of learning an instrument be the factor. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I would say both of it. Both factors are important: it sounds bizarre, but the number of notes are relevant: it is a difference, if you wait 20 minutes for your timbale stroke or if you play constantly string runnings.

Perhaps it was also the intention of the string players to take the argument of the number of notes because this is a measurable unit. The discussion about the difficulty of certain instruments can turn into a personal discussion. And that does not help.

Anyway... I would say that\'s a part of the game. Too different payments would be an unbearable preference. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">First, I was quoting Tremolo. I will not take credit for another’s words.
Whatever happened to the love of playing your instrument? Money yes and rightly so. However, when the green gets in the way of the heart all hell breaks loose and the end result can only be a complete failure in the unity of an organization. The orchestra is no different. If I have to hire musicians for a musical and any one section or player demands more money, the first reaction from the staff and myself is to find others suitable to fill the position at a respectable amount. It is not fair to the brass section that I pay the string section more money because they are playing more notes. Or, any other section for that matter!
Let me tell you a true story. I remember in wind ensemble our best most admired percussionist, who could sight-read anything any time, was to strike a triangle three times during a 3/4 segment. He waited almost the entire concert through several long compositions. When his moment came, he missed every stroke. And I mean missed! His timing was there! His reading was perfect! He just missed the triangle with the beater! When asked why he replied; it suddenly seemed harder to play those three notes than several thousand at that moment.
Standing there 20 minutes for a timbale stroke can be real challenging at times!
Hmmm, Yes! Measurable unit! \"Watson! The games afoot\"!

[thesoundsmith]

Hey, I\'m a pianist - I sometimes play ten notes or more at once! So in my jazz combo, I should make at LEAST ten times as much as the bassist, who only plays one note at a time, and mostly only four notes per bar.

With this logic, the speed metal guitarist should be the highest paid of all???

BTW, I think code should be paid in inverse proportion - the fewer lines to do a task, the greater the pay...

Dasher

[Jonny Lost]

Hey Everyone,

I heard about this on NPR on Friday and I wanted to see what everyone one else thought.

The idea of pay per note seems to me a little over the top. If your in an ensmeble, the pay should be even acrossed the board, taking into account seniority of course. :-)

Let me give you a real life example. I play percussion in an R and B band. We recently began backing a well known blues singer who, for one reason or another, always seems to be broke. Anyway, we played two gigs with her in one weekend. She brought in well over $2000 each night. The band each got $75.00 for the weekend!!! It\'s a bit of a different situation because she is the actual act and we are her band, but it\'s that type of mentality that is tearing the classical music scene apart. It\'s also why many composers are moving to the \"virtual\" orchestra.

The orchestra needs its violins, no doubt there. But they are needed just as much as the horns, or the trumpets or even the lowly percussionist with five different mallets in each hand frantically counting 332 measures of rests! (I\'ve been there before!!)

The argument itself reminds me of when I was in beginning band and we always had arguments between the saxophones and percussionist as to which instrument was harder. It just seems a little juvinile to me.

Also, it\'s funny that this is taking place in Bonn, with the Beethoven Symphony. I believe Mr. Beethoven would tell those violinist to bugger off. He was, after all, a shrude businessman. images/icons/grin.gif

Jonny