Kontak vs. Giga efficiency

[tonylombardi]

Hi all,
Can someone explain the difference in efficiency between these two?
In other words, which one allows the most voices for a given CPU? Which one allows the most loading of instruments given a certain amount of RAM?
I remember Bruce Richardson commenting on this recently but can\'t find that thread.

Thanks,
Anthony Lombardi

[Rich Pell]

Originally posted by tonylombardi:
Hi all,
Can someone explain the difference in efficiency between these two?
In other words, which one allows the most voices for a given CPU? Which one allows the most loading of instruments given a certain amount of RAM?
I remember Bruce Richardson commenting on this recently but can\'t find that thread.

Thanks,
Anthony Lombardi <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">The thread with Bruces opinion is called \"Did u see the mini-review in keyboard?\" on Page 2 of the main sample forum .Basically he feels GS streams better than Kontakt. He`s probably right for live playing since GS is a dedicated program designed for that,which isnt to say that u counldn`t play a huge piano sample live with Kontakt standalone as people do it everyday. As a matter of fact theres another test called \"Grandioso Bösendorfer 290 24bit Plug-in\"on the main sample forum that Micheal Post has made with his Bosey comparing the KOmpakt plug,Kontakt, And Halion. 85 stereo voices with the Kompakt-plug!!! Thats not bad! I believe GS 160 voices are mono(i could be wrong). System specs and set ups are another factor. Kontakt needs more RAM than GS. So in that way GS is more efficiant.
The debate continues..Rich

[robgb]

Boy, I have yet to max out either Kontakt OR GigaStudio. Both seem very effecient (in streaming, voices and RAM usage) and, if you\'re using that basis to make a decision on which to buy, then I think you\'re looking at the wrong thing.

Kontakt has so many features that go above and beyond the current version of GigaStudio that it\'s no contest.

As I believe Bruce -- or someone -- has said before, it\'s probably best to have both... and now that Tascam has cut the price of 160 in half...

[Haydn]

I\'ve been getting double the voices in Kontakt than in GigaStudio 160 with the latest update. Another thing to consider is that you can run up to 16 instances of Kontakt which will give you 256 MIDI channels versus GigaStudio 160\'s 64 MIDI channels. Also, GigaStudio can only be installed on one machine. Kontakt 1.5 update you can install on 2 machines. There appears to be no limitations on the current version of Kontakt (1.2.1) on the amount of machines it\'s installed on.

I\'ve been using Kontakt on both of my machines lately and haven\'t fired up GigaStudio in about 3 months. Kontakt has been much more stable even when pushed to the max than Giga.

[Rich Pell]

Originally posted by Ouch that hurts:
</font><blockquote><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><hr /><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Also, GigaStudio can only be installed on one machine. Kontakt 1.5 update you can install on 2 machines.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Can you elaborate on this? Does the Kontakt license actually stipulate that you\'re allowed to install it on two machines for simultaneous use, as opposed to the usual one?

And does the same go for Kompakt? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">NI, will issue you 2 authorization keys(for each Kontakt and Kompakt). If u need more(for more comps. or cause u changed Mother boards etc. u just email them explaining your situation and they`ll send u a new one. Its not like Giga were u have to get a lisence for each machine. I had a Registration mishap with Reaktor 4 and they were VERY fast and helpful..Rich

[Ouch that hurts]

Wow that\'s cool.

And realistic, given the way people actually use their soft samplers.

[Ouch that hurts]

Also, GigaStudio can only be installed on one machine. Kontakt 1.5 update you can install on 2 machines.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Can you elaborate on this? Does the Kontakt license actually stipulate that you\'re allowed to install it on two machines for simultaneous use, as opposed to the usual one?

And does the same go for Kompakt?

[esperlad]

Kontakt has no key-switching.

[Rich Pell]

Originally posted by esperlad:
Kontakt has no key-switching. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Your joking right? Rich

[Disko300]

Originally posted by Haydn:
I\'ve been getting double the voices in Kontakt than in GigaStudio 160 with the latest update. Another thing to consider is that you can run up to 16 instances of Kontakt which will give you 256 MIDI channels versus GigaStudio 160\'s 64 MIDI channels. Also, GigaStudio can only be installed on one machine. Kontakt 1.5 update you can install on 2 machines. There appears to be no limitations on the current version of Kontakt (1.2.1) on the amount of machines it\'s installed on.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">you are working for emagic right?
320 voices on one mac???
gigastudio plays 160 on a fast machine with not much cpu load. but please compare the ram load 2.
i found out that you can load in 1/4 of sounds into a vst sampler plug in because of the higher streaming latency. so, the maximium .gig s you can load in is somewere at 1088mb with a vst plug you would need about 4gb of ram to load play the same amount of ram.
btw. voices are not much an issue for filmcomposer its more an issue to load big librarys in.

[esperlad]

Richard, I was being serious. I have not seen how Kontakt will implement this feature. Would you or anyone else care to tell me where in the manuel it talks about key-switching and how to convert those patches?

[Rich Pell]

Disko, Agreed u need more Ram to load the same amount into these VST samplers, but i think your 1/4 ratio is a bit of an exageration. I`ve loaded about 1GB of samples into multiple instances of Kontakt on my 2 GB machine. Giga is great at streaming ,but VST samplers offer other advantages. Rich

[Rich Pell]

Originally posted by esperlad:
Richard, I was being serious. I have not seen how Kontakt will implement this feature. Would you or anyone else care to tell me where in the manuel it talks about key-switching and how to convert those patches? <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Esp, 1st, the KS features in KOntakt go beyond GS2.5 capabilities(u can do more dimentions etc..). NI probably hasent updated the manual since this feature was introduced in 1.2. Theres dozens of KS and MW patches in QLSO and they`re Amazingly smooth! I believe theres a tutorial for reg. user on the NI site explaining how to set up Groups and assign them to Keys(Group Switching ). U can even assign a group a Group to a range of keys or u can assign groups to automatically trigger \"round-robin\" to get realistic sounding random snare hits etc..etc..I also posted a method of setting up MW x-fades a few threads back that u may wanna check out. Kontakt does alot more than is in the manual(which is just basic). Be careful to checkout all of Kontatks features before u come to such radical conclusions! images/icons/wink.gif Peace, Rich

[David Govett]

Kontakt does have keyswitching indeed. It also streams just fine and is quite usable and beats the \"current\" Giga studio in polyphony count. The ram buffers are a bit more in Kontakt though and the RAM vs polyphony power will most likely lean towards Giga with 3.0. I\'m getting by in Kontakt for composing (QLSO) with 216k (stereo) buffers but it is not the full amount of polyphony it can do. They reccomend 600 k buffers to open it up wide. Giga is in the range of 133k (stereo) no matter what and the polyphony will depend on the machine. I\'ll tell you what though, I\'m the biggest fan of Giga but I can\'t live without the loop playback of Kontakt with the pitch and time and legato mode. Its great.
Giga is going to be revolutionary as well. Both companies will keep each other on the edge which is great for the composers.
Later
Dave

[Rich Pell]

Thanks for that post Dave, i like your attitude towards this stuff and its interesting to see your kontakt settings. I hadn`t fully checked out the giga import with KS but i noticed that if there isn`t MW CC# along with the layers ,Kontakt actually imports all the layers and KS correctly. I just loaded in the VOTA constanance patch and i barely had to do any tweaking. I just wish NI could get the MW import right like Halion can. BTW, I know u cant give specifics,but will GS3 have features that kontakt just doesnt have and nobodies thought of or more of an enhancement to the all ready existing features in GS2.5? A simple \"yes or no\" answer to each part of the Q: will do images/icons/grin.gif
Peace out,Rich

[Patthoven]

Giga (3.0) is going to be revolutionary as well. Both companies will keep each other on the edge which is great for the composers.
Later
Dave <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hi Guys,

Good discussion! I use and love both products!!

However, I am really discouraged about the whole Tascam thing with them shutting down the bulletin boards. Its hard to believe that there\'s much really going on. In any event, I sent them this letter:

Dear TASCAM

Just thought I\'d check in here and give you some feedback.

Regarding the Forum Bulletin Boards................. I\'m not quite sure what the strategy is, but Tascam has really enflamed a lot of its most loyal customers by shutting down the forums with no indication as to what the future holds or what they should be anticipating.

I don\'t know about you, but in my business, that would be the kiss of death.

What are all of your loyal supporters to think or say when asked why?

I don\'t know what your strategy is, but you better do something soon, many Gigasampler Die hards are being successfully wooed by the folks over at Native Instruments with KONTAKT, which is turning out to be much more of a competitor than first thought.

In any event, I miss my friends on the Gigasampler Forums, and many of us feel betrayed with no rebuttal from Tascam.

Like I said, if you are going to do something, you might want to do it soon.

Any river will seek a new path with nowhere else to flow.

God Bless,
Patrick

[David Govett]

\"BTW, I know u cant give specifics,but will GS3 have features that kontakt just doesnt have and nobodies thought of or more of an enhancement to the all ready existing features in GS2.5? A simple \"yes or no\" answer to each part of the Q: will do\"

Big time Yes. Its more of a revamp than an enhancement of the original, thus it has taken a while to work on. There will still be a thing or two that Kontakt does better as well, at least for a little while.

Dave

[Rich Pell]

Hmmm.. now u got me curious. images/icons/smile.gif best, RIch

[esperlad]

I had been under the impression that key-switching has to be made by the user. I was wrong. I have converted a patch from VSL, and it sounds just fine. I tried this before, but it did not work until now. The demo won\'t convert some stuff.
My question now is: How do you add other stuff and make the group instrument play more patches? I downloaded the training guide, and it made no sense to me.

[Rich Pell]

Its o.k esperlad.your comin` to your sences.we`ll make a Kontakt-Konvert out of ya` one day! if u want to add a new group with a key control. simply(under the edit pulldown in the mapping editor) choose \"create empty group\". then drag and arrange your samples into the empty mapping editor. then under the source mod. instead of \"always\" choose \"on key\" and choose the range of the keyswitch range that u want in the 2 little boxes beside it. If u just want 1 key to trigger your sample group ,just make them the same. Theres probably an easier way to do this thats explained in the tutorial but thats 1 way..hope that helps..Rich

[Nick Batzdorf]

you are working for emagic right?
320 voices on one mac???
gigastudio plays 160 on a fast machine with not much cpu load. but please compare the ram load 2.
i found out that you can load in 1/4 of sounds into a vst sampler plug in because of the higher streaming latency. so, the maximium .gig s you can load in is somewere at 1088mb with a vst plug you would need about 4gb of ram to load play the same amount of ram.
btw. voices are not much an issue for filmcomposer its more an issue to load big librarys in. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I post the same thing over and over, but I get 180 16-bit stereo EXS24 voices off a single Firewire drive on my dual gig Mac. That\'s 360 voices, so 320 isn\'t unrealistic at all. And I could get more voices if I split the load among a couple of drive busses.

As far as RAM, I could load the same amount of VSL into my 1.5GB Giga machine as I could on that Mac. (However, I\'ve since put 2GB in the giga machine.)

I don\'t have Kontakt, and I haven\'t worked with Kompakt enough yet to know how much I can squeeze out of it.