Lalo Schifrin scoring SplinterCell

[MarcDerell]

Ubisoft hired Lalo Schifrin (Mission Impossible) to score Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow.

Well, everyone\'s going for well-known film musicians nowadays. Is our time ending ?!

[Alexcremers]

I thought he was only hired to do the main theme.

But rest assured, if you got no name, your days are numbered. Games like SplinterCell sell big time and are very attractive for all kinds of famous composers to be involved in for numerous reasons.

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Alex Cremers

[MarcDerell]

EDIT: Well, I don\'t know. As far as I read the news it sounded like \"complete score\".

...but I agree as far as \"names go\". Same for Everquest 2... Laura K. who did various SciFi series (e.g. Taken) does the complete score for EQ2 (though I don\'t like the theme at all - I even don\'t like \"Prague\").

It\'s interesting and sad as well. They spent big money on a name although there are a lot of composeres out there who definetly do the same work for less, if not even better.

Well, if they are entering game biz - let\'s move on to film biz images/icons/smile.gif

[dwdonehoo]

There will always be doom-sayers and trends, but I think a long view is best. I talked last week to a producer for films for the Discovery Channel, and this person was actively recruiting game composers, partly because \"Their music is as good or better as the so-called \"Hollywood\" composers, and their rates are much lower\". Also, there has been game composers going into film. Probably the film composers are complaining about game composers getting into film music. Things are always changing, and it is a big world out there.

[MarcDerell]

I\'m no doom-sayer images/icons/smile.gif Sometimes it just sucks, though images/icons/smile.gif

[Brian W. Ralston]

It\'s the film composer agents who are starting to recognize there is money to be made in the video game field as well for their clients. I know mine brought up the idea while dangling a $100,000 payoff in front of me. With their % cut.....looking at it from a business standpoint.....film composer agents are going to find more ways they can bring money into their companies and video games is another place. They are more lucrative than any indie film out there.

[MarcDerell]

*sigh*

[Alexcremers]

We\'re dooooomed. And that Donehoo reminds me a \"certain\" captain of a \"certain\" luxurious ship that supposedly couldn\'t sink on April 14, 1912. Doooomed I\'m telling ya all! And this is just the tip of the iceberg!

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Alex Cremers

[Brian W. Ralston]

Why I feel the agent aspect of this discussion is important to note....is that agents will now typically package their clients on projects. If as a composer....your agency only represents composers....they might say.....\"well....if you want XYZ famous composer on this bigger project down the road.....you will have to take XYZ lesser known composer on your video game project now.\" (Works on larger companies that do more than just games...Viacom...Universal, etc....).

But the real benefit comes if one is with an agency that represents more areas than just composers. (i.e.....mine also represents actors.....big ones.....in fact they have a game department that supplies actors for games and voice over work......so they are now starting to package their actors with their composers, etc.... saying \"if you want these actors in your game....you have to take our composer and our editor, etc...etc....\"

For the agency, this allows them to keep more $$$ in house. For the developers , it is easier as well because it becomes more of a one stop shop for them in getting their game/movie developed.

It only sucks for the lone game composer who does not have representation (which is hard to get especially for composers). But, if one has already established themselves with the game companies on prior projects.....I would assume if the experience was a good one, you have nothing to worry about. It will continue for you. It is just the new guys that will probably find it harder and harder to get a foot in the door.

[Nino Mojo]

It sickens me that more and more outsiders make music for games just because they\'re famous and they smelled the big bucks... Being a good composer is FAR from enough to be a good game composer. If you wanna make good game music, you have to wanna make good games first.

(I\'m not saying Schifrin is not gonna do a good job though).

[David Govett]

Here we go. Bob Rice puts it best here.

Bob Rice is founder and CEO of Four Bars Intertainment (FBI), the \"#1 provider\" of music and sound for games since 1992.

Bob Rice Takes \"His Turn.\"
Posted 2/23/04

Hiring \"game composers\" Vs \"film composers\"


Let me first say that there are game music composers that are better than, or at least as good, as film music composers. In most cases, the only reason that some film composer\'s music may sound better is because the film composer is given at least a $500,000.00 plus budget for live music, plus a $500,000.00, or more, creative fee. Given these budgets, game music composers Jack Wall, Inon Zur and a few other game guys would at least equal the music productions of Hans Zimmer or Danny Elfman.

The two primary considerations in hiring anyone to do anything are \"ability\" and \"desire.\" Having decades of experience with both \"game composers\" and \"film composers,\" I am certain that game composers are far better at composing music for games than film composers.

Desire:

Most film score composers have a passion to score films. Since a very young age, they have dreamed of seeing their name in the film credits and hearing their music over the gigantic speakers in the theater. What makes them tick, what makes them happy and proud is to be making music for films. If a game company hires a film composer, the game company should understand that if the composer gets a call for a film, the game music job will go on the back burner, be handed off to a ghost composer and the game company will have a hard time getting the film composer\'s attention much less focus.

Conversely, game music composers have grown up with games. They have played games for years and have a passion to make music for games. Making music for games is their past, it is their future and they are happy and proud to make music for games.

Ability:

Film composers know exactly what film directors want for the static film audience that sits in a theater with a box of popcorn in one hand and a drink in the other hand. Game composers know exactly what the game developer wants for the dynamic game player that is squeezing the controller in both hands with the objective of winning.

Most film composers have no idea what the differences are between a first person shooter and an RPG game, they don\'t know how to deliver looping points, they don\'t know how to deliver stems and how to divide music into components. Game composers know these things like the back of their hand.

Comparing game composers to film composers is like comparing high rise commercial builders to custom home builders. They are both builders but I want to live in a home built by the custom home guy.

[Not Dudley Simpson]

I think the above is wishful thinking.

Truth is that any composer who has mastered the various technical skills of film scoring would be able to adopt the requirements of gaming music in about fifteen seconds flat.

Sorry boys, but you really are doooomed!

images/icons/wink.gif

Heath

[David Govett]

\"I think the above is wishful thinking.

Truth is that any composer who has mastered the various technical skills of film scoring would be able to adopt the requirements of gaming music in about fifteen seconds flat.

Sorry boys, but you really are doooomed!\"

I agree with part of that. Personally I think you simply have to have a love and knowledge of MUSIC foremost, even more important than a love of games. A cinematic background can help too. However, Bob Rice has a good point about the glamor of movies vs games and how a big name film guy can be tempted to sub out the game work if a big film project comes along. Game composers who are good and love music and the games will probably be a bit more loyal to the genre. Also, I have noticed that alot of what I see and hear in the movies and TV are not up to the caliber of a lot of games these days, at least not until you get to the A list level (and not always then either) There is some great quality music in this area to say the least. One thing that does help in some cases is when a team of composers for a game or game company can collaborate and spend several months or years on a single game. The quality had better be good at that point.

Cheers
Dave

[dwdonehoo]

Originally posted by Not Dudley Simpson:

Truth is that any composer who has mastered the various technical skills of film scoring would be able to adopt the requirements of gaming music in about fifteen seconds flat.
Heath <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">A good laugh for my day. I doubt anybody could learn XACT in 15 seconds flat (soon a near requirement for game composers), or even quickly adapt the mindset for the requirements for interactive music. Talk about your wishful thinking. images/icons/grin.gif

[Nino Mojo]

Indeed, I really doubt 15 seconds would be enough images/icons/smile.gif

For the Lalo Schifrin thing on Pandora Tomorrow (if anyone still cares:) ), the exact info is in fact that Ubi hired Schifrin to compose a kind of general theme for Sam Fisher (SC\'s main character) so they could re-use it or parts of it for commercials, or sometimes use some elements in the in-game music. (I know that and I could listen to it because I\'m in charge of making the music and effects for the mobile version of the game images/icons/smile.gif )

In my opinion, this \"theme\" isn\'t very good... It has a strong oldschool feeling to it that doesn\'t fit Splinter Cell very much and that is opposed to the more modern treatment of it\'s Xbox in game music... I almost had to remake my stuff to just \"copy\" the theme by Schifrin but hopefully nobody really liked it here and the mobile version will keep my stuff on it images/icons/smile.gif (pheew !! that was close images/icons/smile.gif )

[Ed Lima]

Originally posted by dwdonehoo:
A good laugh for my day. I doubt anybody could learn XACT in 15 seconds flat (soon a near requirement for game composers), or even quickly adapt the mindset for the requirements for interactive music. Talk about your wishful thinking. images/icons/grin.gif <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Man, no kidding, huh, Doyle? Geez, when you think about some of the stuff guys like Guy Whitmore do with \"just\" DirectMusic, to think that some talented but new-to-games composer has budgeted FIFTEEN MINUTES of his work day to get up to speed to that degree of implementation.. &lt;shudder&gt; poor guy...