HELP! Error 5's that just don't go away in XP!

[composer22]

Well after about a week of installs into the night and trying every possible memory registry setting in the book I am totally confused. I still get error 5 codes and am unable to load additional instruments even though I have PLENTY of ram! Does anyone have any ideas?? Below you will find everything I did to tweak my system. Perhaps I am missing soemthing? Or did something I shouldn\'t have?

I should point out that TASCAM has done absolutely nothing for me.

Does anyone know the architecture of Giga and how it manages memory and Disk IO in XP?

Doesn anyone know what the differences are between win2000 and XP in terms of architecture? I almost picked up an INSIDE WIN 2000 book today in desperation.

Intel 850GB, 2gig Corsair rambus 800 ECC, 2 IBM Deskstar, 1 HP CDRW 9300, Midisport 4x4, Delta 66

on boot takes up around 207mb
onload of BIG giga perfomance file it displays 69% @ 195 instruments. Although looking at TASKMAN I have around 54% used.

If I drag and drop GOS 2nd Violins KS and Lite.gig into the performance now, I get ERROR 5 code.

If I load the file from a fresh boot and this time start to drag and drop individual instruments from this file into the performance, I will get ERROR Code 5\'s, but I will successfully load some single instruments - such as 2nd Vln Portato Lite...and Marcato Lite.

If I reboot now, I am placed into scandisk

Noooo..cacheman doesnt work. Nor memoryoptimizer. Nor UNLOAD DLL\'s setting for Explorer.

Here is the optimization and some of the install procedures from my notes.

===============

Make sure NO usb devices are attached.

Bios - clear plug and play data; enable plug and play os; set the boot order to cd, diskette, HD. Interrupts on AUTO. disable unused ports. disable support for legacy USB

Reboot 2x to clear data

Take F5 at the first screen where there is an F6 option.
Take STANDARD PC. Didn\'t take STANDARD PC w/ CSTEP although I tried this before.
Reformat the C DRIVE
Custom network settings:
IP address and subnet mask.
On DNS screen disable register box @ the bottom.
On WINS, disable WH_HOSTS file and enable NETBIOS over TCp/IP

UI Adjustments:
classic view
no desktop
no screensaver
power saving options always on
change turn off monitor to always on from 20 min setting
disable hibernation
enable APM.
Appearance FX: NO transitions; use cleartype; NO window content while dragging
SETTINGS 1024x768 16bit
(did not install latest drivers as it is a hog. Tried this last time)
Menu Bar: classic, show admin tools, small icons
TaskBar: Auto hide enabled, quick launch enabled

install delta/66 drivers
MS Messanger disabled on start

Plug in Midiman 4x4 and install drivers

disable fastswitching and welcome screen
Computer description, Work Group, computer name
ADvanced performance: BEST
Disable error reporting except critical

Turn of fsystem restore
Autoupdate turn off
Remote access disable
Sounds disable
Named the C drive System
Updated the Network Drivers

Optimize services. A bit tricky. These were set to automatic:

COM+ Event System
Event Log
Help and Support
Network Connections
Network Location Awareness (NLA)
Plug and Play
Remote Procedure Call (RPC)
Server
Shell Hardware Detection
System Event Notification
TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper
Terminal Services
Windows Audio
Windows Management Instrumentation
Workstation

These disabled:
Human Interface and Device access
Routing and Remote access
SSDP Discovery Service

Rest Manual...

set CDROM Auto insert off for all file types
Enable network sharing of a folder Network I/O
At RUN line type diskperf -N or type cmd then in shell do same

In registry, under the local machine current control set/control/ session manager/memory management.
ADD: IOPageLockLimit DWORD 131072 decimal

this is = to 2048meg * 16
I also tried 65536 with the same results
And tried tonight 262144 with same results
(128 * 2048)
Disable write behind caching on all drives

Setup default folder settings and apply against all folders

Disabled trashcans except for my C (system) and E (personal Data). Swap (D) and Giga partitions (F-M) have disabled trashcans

Install gigasampler

Set to 158 note polyphony. dither disabled 48/24bit

SWAP FILE
Move the swap to drive M temporarily
Optimize drives C and D
Install back the swap file to drive C and D


[This message has been edited by composer22 (edited 04-20-2002).]

[This message has been edited by composer22 (edited 04-20-2002).]

[This message has been edited by composer22 (edited 04-20-2002).]

[composer22]

Some additional technical information from Task manager on key process that seemed to change as I loaded the performance file:

=====================
Name: GStudio.exe
Mem Usage: 12884k
Peak Mem Usage: 12956k
Mem Delta: 0
Page Faults: 4497
Page Fault Delta: 0
VM Size: 6156
Paged Pool: 45
Non Paged Pool: 8
IO Reads: 26048
IO Read Bytes: 12966773
===================

=====================
Name: msg32.exe
(most active process while reading file)
Mem Usage: 751832k
Peak Mem Usage: 751832k
Mem Delta: 0
Page Faults: 187786
Page Fault Delta: 0
VM Size: 750124k
Paged Pool: 16k
Non Paged Pool: 263k
IO Reads: 1,925,400
IO Read Bytes: 666,006,763
===================

=====================
Name: lsass.exe
(LSA Shell Export Version)
Mem Usage: 920
Peak Mem Usage: 4240
Mem Delta: 0
Page Faults: 1382
Page Fault Delta: 0
VM Size: 1652
Paged Pool: 33
Non Paged Pool: 5
IO Reads: 2622 and rising
IO Read Bytes: 453616
===================

=====================
Name: csrss.exe
(Client Server Runtime Process)
Mem Usage: 2628
Peak Mem Usage: 2988
Mem Delta: 0
Page Faults: 1884
Page Fault Delta: 0
VM Size: 1300
Paged Pool: 31
Non Paged Pool: 4
IO Reads: 2844
IO Read Bytes: 154944
======================

[Sapkiller]

hi composer
What is the error message exactly? Error ID
5 can be a lot of different things, like an
\'invalid pointer\' from COM+, a \'detected parity error\' or an \'access denied\' error.

Looks like you got an enormous amount of
page faults - how\'s your virtual memory
settings? How does the memory usage look
in the taskmanager?

I don\'t have XP installed, but I do have a
W2K, all though not with Giga running on
that machine. I still use win98 for Giga.

If the above makes it sound like I\'m some sort of windows wizard - its an illusion
cause I\'m not - actually I don\'t know much
about XP, but since nobody else seems too either I might as well try and help.

Bjk

p.s Some of the differences between W2K and XP is that XP supports 64-bit processers, has better scalability for multiprocessor servers and allows bigger device drivers.

[Sapkiller]

oh , just to point out: The amount of page faults for Msg32 is not necessarily a problem.
I believe that Gigastudio has its own
administration of memory pages and maybe
uses the page fault mechanism to initiate
a system interrupt.

Bjk

[composer22]

Sapkiller:

Error code 5 basically says I dont have enough memory to download another instrument. Basically, end of road...turn back now. When I reboot the machine it has to do a scan disk because of paging problems. I wish I knew exactly what was evoking the error # in their code and why.

Im not sure about virtual page settings given the following parameters under XP, and I take it under win2000. I understand that Vcache that was under win98 is ignored under XP and 2000. Anyway, here are my memory settings. Im not sure which one I would have to monkey with? I modified the page lock limit but neither the default or my calculation works. I\'ve attempted to play with the non-paged parameter in previous attempts, as well as twiddled with the /3GB boot setting but it didnt help:

ClearPageFileAtShutdown:0x00000000 (0)
DisablePagingExecutive: 0x00000000 (0)
LargeSystemCache: 0x00000000 (0)
NonPagedPoolQuota: 0x00000000 (0)
NonPagedPoolSize: 0x00000000 (0)
PagedPoolQuota: 0x00000000 (0)
PagedPoolSize: 0x00000000 (0)
SecondLevelDataCache: 0x00000000 (0)
SystemPages: 0x0001b000 (110592)
PagingFiles: Unknown Data Type
PhysicalAddressExtension: 0x00000000 (0)
SessionViewSize: 0x00000030 (48)
SessionPoolSize: 0x00000004 (4)
IoPageLockLimit: 0x00020000 (131072)

Memory looks fine under Taskmanager...shows only 55% physical memory used, while giga shows only 69% used.

Im wondering if anyone using gigasampler can load instruments into more than 1 gig of memory? I have yet to see anyone who is.

Thanks for your help.

[Sapkiller]

Oh, It\'s a Gigastudio error code!
I automatically assumed that it was an
XP error code.
I\'ll be back.

Bjk

[composer22]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sapkiller:
Oh, It\'s a Gigastudio error code!
I automatically assumed that it was an
XP error code.
I\'ll be back.

Bjk<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh sapkiller I am sooo confused by all this STUFF!

Ive installed about 100 times in every way. Played with all the settings, flipped memory chips around my system. I still dont have an answer.
Recently I tried enabling systemcache and disablingpagingexecutive - no results. Upped my pagefile size to around 4 gig (2x memory)
disabled quicksound.
played around with IOPageLockLimit from 64K to (2048 * 128) MAX...
Its like an API call is wrong in Giga or something when it calculates memory?

error 0\'s sometimes when I load a performance file. If i quit giga and come back I dont get error 0\'s in giga anymore, but...

Error 5\'s not enuf memory occur if I go over the 67-69% mark no matter what...

If i quit and reboot right away, I need to go through scandisk on the way back in.

Only thing I thought today was that I have FAT32 32k clusters on my giga hard drive, but I dont see how this would affect the calcuation of physical memory directly.

I also though about moving to xp pro but dont believe I will see any diffs here either...

im totally stumped...and TASCAM says they cant repro and that it should be able to read above the 1 gig mark.

[Sapkiller]

hi currently not-so-much-Composer but more
Computer troubled.

This is a tough one, since we really need
more tech info of the Gigastudio, than is
available. Surely altering your clustersize
wont help, neither will switching to XP pro.
XP Pro differs from the home version, largely
only in networking capabilities.

I don\'t think increasing your pagefile will
get you anywhere. Infact I\'ve totally switched of my virtual memory ( in Win98, mind you), because its rather useless on a
Giga dedicated machine - what would you want to swap out to the disk from memory?
However Microsoft does recommend having one and only one pagefile pr. physical drive.

If something is going wrong with GS memory and/or diskbuffering system and the OS ditto,
increasing the pagefile size will only
make matters worse. - try instead to reduce
it to near nothing. ( yes, I know MS recommends a size of about 1.5 gg RAM, but
thats for normal use - its like with Win98
virtual memory, MS also recommend a factor
1.5 - 2, but for Giga its better with a small amount or none at all).

The XP 32-bit version ( I assume this is
the one you got - not the 64 bit version)
has memory adress space of 4 Gb, but it
divides this into 2 Gb of application space
and 2 Gb of system space. IF you have a large amount of virtual memory, say 1 Gb, the XP will probably regard this as application space and since GS can\'t use this space, it needs physical memory, its left with 1 Gb.
This would explain why the OS say\'s that there is still memory available (virtual memory), while the GS runs out.

So try cutting your virtual memory to an
absolut minimum , and see what happens.

Surely I can understand your frustration -
We\'re not into to Giga and music to be preoccupied with technical computer stuff -
we\'re only in it for the music!

Bjk

[composer22]

This is extremely helpful. I will try and cut down to around 2 gig tonight of virtual space and remove my other pagefile spread. My increase SEEMED to affect the percent by making it go down slightly, but I have never gone low. Ill experiment around with even lower settings and report back

Yeah, the tascam folks arent very helpful. And i dont see how RAMBUS memory would affect the way they bytecount the memory...nor the idea of FAT32 clustering. Its gotta be something software related.

[Sapkiller]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by composer22:
I will try and cut down to around 2 gig tonight of virtual space and remove my other pagefile spread.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

eh, no - not around 2 Gig of virtual memory
you\'ve got 2 Gigs of physical memory, so
you really don\'t wanne use virtual memory -
just set at 16Mb and enter this in both the
min and max, so it remains fixed in size - otherwise the OS will just expand it, when
GS uses up more and more of the physical memory.

Bjk

[composer22]

Um Actually, I have it set right now at 4 gig or 4096 mb fixed...or 2x memory as recommended by VideoTweaks page. I will set it down and set the disablepagingexec flag to true so the kernel is kept in memory and see what flys

2X ver 1.5 was based on recommendation from videotweaks. I think that it was too high. i dont know that windows wont autoset this to 2gig automatically no matter what I do, but when I get home I will try it!!!

[Sapkiller]

I\'ve seen a lot of these recommendations,
even the Nemesys W2K/XP guide says that,
but I refuse to believe in that, until
someone comes up with a very good explanation
as to why you should need more and more virtual memory as your physical memory increases.
The virtual memory trick was original introduced to let systems with small memory to run more applications simultanously, by
swapping programs and data out to disk when
not in actual use.

For a dedicated Giga machine with a lot of
ram it seems absurd.

Bjk

[composer22]

I agree. I was totally confused because I thought it should be set VERY low. and cache size should be set low (ahhh remember the old vcache setting).

My only thinking is perhaps it uses it as a stratch register to defragment memory when it needs to? 1.5x the memory size? insane!

and 4096mb is just BONKERS!

[JWink]

For what it\'s worth, I recall some optimazation FAQ or other suggesting setting the PageFile at 1.5X the physical memory size, up to 512 MB.

[composer22]

That would be interesting,
concidering the default is around 2 gig.

Ok some bad results
disablePagingExecutive = 1
IOPageLockLimit = 262144
Pagesize = 16 mb

Giga percent used = 69%
Taskmanager memory free: 942684
TaskManager total memory: 2096436
TaskManager percent free: 44%
TaskManager percent used: 56%

diff 69% ~ 56% = 13%

Try and load another gig file and..

ERROR 5

* * *
Tried again with lower settings:
disablePagingExecutive = 1
IOPageLockLimit = 131072, 65536, 0
same results

Dumbfounded...

Next steps

Try to add a new user and disable network and CDROM Drive

NTFS - reformat all drives that have giga files.

try installing latest chipset drivers, even though Intel spec says they are on the XP CD and I should not have to.

Install XP PRO

Give up

Try installing chip set


[This message has been edited by composer22 (edited 04-23-2002).]

[seclusion]

Composer..

I did some surfing the last couple of days, and came across a file..
I own gigastudio 96 and am registered.
But I wondered what would happen if I installed that, file....
Same system, deinstalled 96 to the T, and installed the new file... That new file loaded totally correctly did the quicksound thing and booted correctly.
So I went to open a GSP that was totally filled with 32 samples, and low and behold... The error 5 thing came right up and crashed the system... So I deinstalled it and reloaded 96 and everything is cool again.
Composer22 my man... I do believe you have a \"file\" similar to the one I found.
I hope the Tascam guys relax on your tech support, cause that just ain\'t right.
Bri

[composer22]

Seclusion:

I cant quite follow what you did here. Im curious about it. Can you be alittle more clear. What is the FILE?? Performance??? UPgrade???

sorry...

I am beginning to think that it is a problem in GigaStudio.

My theory is that MSMSG32.EXE is using a single thread to allocate memory, and there is some OS limitation on how mych you can address from a single thread. I need to follow up to see if this rumour is true. It comes from a hallway conversaton I had yesterday. I need to do some thread watching to see how many are allocated on reading. Homework for tonight.

Basically, I doubt the reports from a moderator on TASCAMS site who said giga was able to read in his experience 1.5 gig. I believe that what is happening is that he is loading giga AFTER using over .5+ gig in other apps and cache and that giga never actually crosses the 1 gig limitation IN the program. Last night, I laiunched cacheman right after I loaded the OS and saw that the OS allocated 207 mb. I loaded giga and started to load the performance file I had problems with. I reached somewhere between 1100 and 1200 MB. we were at 69% allocated just like before. When I loaded manually dragged another giga file that on its own utilized around 3-4% memory I got the Error 5\'s. This may be the cusp of a 1 gig ceiling (1gig + 200mb) and my loading an additional file must take it over the limit.

everything points to a gigasampler problem. all my other applications can recognize the memory AOK. Giga is also reporting around 10-15% less memory available than other applications.

Until tascam can give me an engineering answer, instead of workaround suggestions like buying additional equipment, the problem and responsibility remains.

to anyone who thinks there is no memory limitation on what GigaStudio can utilize...beware. I believe there is an architecture flaw in the design for NT and XP

[seclusion]

I believe you have the same version software that I \"Found\" online.
Bri

[composer22]

Originally posted by seclusion:
I believe you have the same version software that I \"Found\" online.
Bri<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Strange and cryptic. =)

Here, downloaded 2.5.48 onto XP from upgrade page. I have 2.20 on CD.

Try upping your IOPageLockLimit to say 65536 decimal and see if you have same problems. I know some people report ERROR 5\'s going away when they do this. Doesnt work for me though...

I believe its a GigaStudio problem in the end...

Better edit that other message you left me @ otehr site http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/wink.gif

For concideration: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/memory/memman_9z8l.asp (\"http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/memory/memman_9z8l.asp\")

I don\'t believe that gigasampler utilizes ALL available memory. I believe there is a serious bug in Conexant msg32.exe that Tascam refuses to accept or address. I can confirm they are using the OS system to access memory. However, they run into some serious limitations with accessing large amounts of files.

[composer22]

This is the latest news from a support admin on the tascam site. This comes after alot of discussions about the memory limitation issues with Giga on XP...that giga cannot read more than 1 gig of memory yet I have a 2 gig machine...

\"Win 2K has the same memory allocation issues as XP, and a 10 MIDI port limitation to boot.

BTW, GigaEngineering recommends XP over 2K.\"

He never acknowledges or makes name where the accountability lies for this limitation. He continues to refuse to do so. It could be conexient, tascam or microsofts fault There is no mitigation plan that can be discussed. We can speculate that this limitation is intensional.

The fact remains and people should know that gigasampler has a limitation < 1gig. My own testing on XP was < 800mb. Do not think that upgrading your machine to say 1.5gig and buying Xp will solve your upgrade woes. Save your money!

Boo on tascam!!!

images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif

[karimelm]

Hi, I was wondering if you are still having this problem or if you\'ve resolved it. I have it too. A few questions:

1.) How many MIDI channels is the performance you are trying to load that gives you the ERROR CODE 5?

2.) Did you try the XP optimization guide from Nemesystems? Any improvements?

3.) Does it help trying to re-create the performance? I mean start over with the instruments and reload them all into a new file?

I have XP, 512megs RAM, Pentium IV., same problem as you. I followed the optimization guide step by step and it seemed to help till I installed a stupid \"free\" program that sends me tons of pop up adds that I cant close fast enough and ever since the ERROR CODE 5 is back. Not a good place to be in when the technology is a hinderance to ones creativity instead of an enhancement.

- K