M-Audio Delta 1010 WDM Drivers

[Gknudson]

Am I missing something? There are no WDM drivers for Windows98SE? I am stuck with the MME?

[killerbobjr]

The WDM drivers for Win2000/XP should work fine under Win98SE/ME.

[Mikael]

There are only vxd drivers for the delta series under 98SE and ME.

WDM is only INSTALLED under win 2000/XP

[Mikael]

There are only vxd drivers for the delta series under 98SE and ME.

WDM is only INSTALLED under win 2000/XP

[Gknudson]

Mikael & killerbobjr

So what is the answer? I can\'t (and would\'t think) that the 2000/XP drivers would work under 98SE? You both, (thank you for you input), is different. :-) SO-?

[Gknudson]

Originally posted by killerbobjr:
The WDM drivers for Win2000/XP should work fine under Win98SE/ME.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Thanks Killerbobjr.

If I am reading this correctly, you are saying if I download the Win2000 drivers (i.e. WDM) it will run on my Win98SE? I would of thought not but --

[killerbobjr]

1. Download the Win 2000 WDM drivers, run the file installer and expand the files to a directory or floppy.
2. If you haven\'t installed any drivers for your Audiophile yet, go to step 5.
3. Delete the VxD drivers: Right click on \"My Computer\" on the desktop, select \"Properties\" then the \"Device Manager\" tab, scroll down to \"Sound, video, and game controllers,\" select the \"M Audio Delta Audiophile,\" click the \"Remove\" button and click \"Okay.\"
4. Remove the INF file: Make sure you can see hidden and system files -- Run Windows Explorer, select \"Tools\" then \"Folder Options,\" click the view tab, select the \"Show hidden files and folders\" radio button, uncheck the \"Hide protected operating system files\" checkbox, click \"Okay.\" Now go to your x:\\WINDOWS\\INF\\OTHER folder and delete the \"M AudioMADelta.INF\" file. Reboot your machine.
5. When Windows starts up, you\'ll be presented with the \"Add new hardware\" dialog. Select for the installation location the directory or drive you expanded the WDM files into. You also may have to point to your Windows installation directory if the installer can\'t find certain Windows files. Once all the files are done installing, reboot your machine.
6. Start up Gigastudio and select the Audiophile as your output card and you\'re done!

[killerbobjr]

PS: I have the Delta 1010 not the Audiophile but should work the same.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">
Whoops! Not paying attention there. Where the hell is my coffee!! images/icons/smile.gif

[Gknudson]

Great! I will download and install as you instructed. I will let you know later today. Thanks again. PS: I have the Delta 1010 not the Audiophile but should work the same.

[Gknudson]

KillerbobJr,

I downloaded the Win2000 WDM drivers, uninstalled, cleaned up as you instructed but no go. When I restarted and Windows98Se saw I had new hardware, I pointed to install the drivers to the specified directory where the drivers were located and it gave me an error. No drivers found for you hardware. I even pointed it to the .inf file. No go... HELP! :-)

[killerbobjr]

Fah! Looks like Win98 only reads the first eight characters for variables in the INF files and the DELTA1010LT entry is causing problems. Do this:

1. Open the file \"Delta.Inf\" from the installation files directory in Wordpad.
2. Select \"Replace\" from the menu (CTRL-H).
3. Put \"DELTA1010LT\" (without the quotes) in the Find box and \"DLT1010LT\" (without the quotes) in the Replace box.
4. Check \"Match case\" and click the \"Replace all\" button.
5. Select \"Save As\" from the menu and change the \"Save as type\" to \"Text document - MS-DOS Format\" and save.

You should be able to install your interface under Win98 now.

[Gknudson]

Killerbobjr,
U get a prize! Okay that worked. Since you are helping me so much :-) lets take this further.

GS160 works playing virtual piano. Getting sounds out with other audio apps that utilize the audio card.

Now on the GS subject, should I have GS160 set at 96 or 44.1 and the bit rate 16/24/32? I have read threads that it doesn\'t support 24bit nor 96khz? Version 3?? What is the answer my friend of knowledge?

Now back to the WDM drivers. M Audio Control Panel Codec Sample rate is at 96K. When I open Sonar 2.0, I get Audio driver errors, it lists all the M audio Delta 1010 drivers..etc. I can not get past this. Ideas? I even deleted the AUD.INI file in Sonar and restarted the program.
By the way, GS160 is not running at the time I load Sonar.

Something I am missing?.... again?

[Gknudson]

Can anyone help me? I am totaly stuck now - or I will have to uninstall the WDM drivers images/icons/mad.gif

[killerbobjr]

Try setting everything to 44.1KHz on both GS and Sonar and select a single pair of outputs in GS. I don\'t think GS has the horsepower to handle 96KHz very well.

The way I have thing set up with my Aardvark card is: GS - outputs 7/8, 24 bit depth, 44.1KHz, no dithering; Cakewalk outputs 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 24 bit depth, 24 bit file depth, 44.1KHz sampling rate. Everything works nice and smooth this way.

[Gknudson]

Delta Control, Sonar at 44.1Khz - 24 bit depth. I even deleted the aud.ini file and had Sonar re-configure audio. Mapped the outputs even as you suggested. GS I set it at 44.1/24. Same results. Sonar is rejecting the Audio drivers and giving the \"Audio Error\" when launching Sonar. But, I know the drivers are working, using Sonar as the controller for GS160 I am able to get sounds no issues, I also can play Gs160 w/virtual keyboard and other apps that need audio are having no issues.

I may just uninstall and install Sonar again. Sonar is just not recognizing the audio drivers...... Thoughts?

[Gknudson]

Delta Control panel, GS160, Sonar at 44.1Khz - 24 bit depth. I even deleted the aud.ini file and had Sonar re-configure audio. Mapped the outputs even as you suggested. GS I set it at 44.1/24. Same results. Sonar is rejecting the Audio drivers and giving the \"Audio Error\" when launching Sonar. But, I know the drivers are working, using Sonar as the controller for GS160 I am able to get sounds no issues, I also can play Gs160 w/virtual keyboard and other apps that need audio are having no issues.

I may just uninstall and install Sonar again. Sonar is just not recognizing the audio drivers...... Thoughts?

[Gknudson]

Did not work. For some reason, Sonar is having problems with those drivers. I uninstalled, reinstalled Sonar, same results. Everything else is happy - not Sonar, nor me.

[killerbobjr]

Hmmm, just installed a fresh copy of Win98 on a bare system, installed the WDM Delta drivers, installed Sonar, then set the DMA sample length in the Delta control panel to 64. Started Sonar, made sure the \"Always use MME\" checkbox was unchecked under the Audio Options|Advanced tab, went to Drivers tab, selected only Delta AP Multichannel 1/2 and Ap 1/2 for input and output, then restarted Sonar. Here are the rest of the settings:

General tab -
Playback timing master: Delta AP Multichannel 1/2
Record timing master: Delta AP Multichannel 1/2
Audio driver bit depth: 24
File bit depth: 24
Buffers in playback queue: 2
Buffer size (latency slider): all the ways to the left - 1.5ms

Advanced tab -
I/O buffer size: 256
Apply dither: unchecked

Input monitoring tab -
Selected both AP multichannel 1/2 and Ap 1/2

Driver profiles tab -
Set all DMA buffers to 64 (to match what the Delta control panel was set to)

I restarted Sonar, loaded a big Cakewalk bundle project, everything played back fine. Then I created a new project, set one audio track for input Left AP Multichannel 1/2, output Stereo AP Multichannel 1/2, loaded up Revalver as an effect, clicked the Record arm button, and wailed away on my very own computer based guitar POD with 1.5ms latency. images/icons/smile.gif

[Gknudson]

Okay you proved it works. HA! This is a really good thing.

So, before I re-install Win98SE - What is the version of the WDM drivers are you using? Thanks!

Also, maybe when I uninstalled Sonar 2, it didn\'t do it cleanly.. hmmm... I will wait to verify the version you are using.

We are going to \'beat\' this!! Thanks in advance for you help! images/icons/grin.gif

[killerbobjr]

I downloaded the latest version of the Delta WDM driver from MIDIMAN/M-Audio (same for both XP and Win2k) - Ver: 5.10.0.27 Date: 04/11/2002

[Gknudson]

Okay, I configured exactly as you suggested. But there are a few discrepancies in your instructions with my setup. Could it be you are not running the Delta 1010?? You have the Audiophile card right? You think that may be a possible issue? What I don\'t understand is my other 3rd party applications needing the Delta card do not have issues. So it\'s a Sonar issue?? Confused....

Originally posted by killerbobjr:
Hmmm, just installed a fresh copy of Win98 on a bare system, installed the WDM Delta drivers, installed Sonar, then set the DMA sample length in the Delta control panel to 64.... <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">
In the Delta control panel, I have Delta DMA Buffer Size, you mentioned DMA sample length. I set the DMA Buffer Size to 64.

Originally posted by killerbobjr:

General tab -
Playback timing master: Delta AP Multichannel 1/2
Record timing master: Delta AP Multichannel 1/2
Audio driver bit depth: 24
File bit depth: 24
Buffers in playback queue: 2
Buffer size (latency slider): all the ways to the left - 1.5ms
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">

Playback timing master, Record timing master you were selecting Delta AP Multichannel 1/2. Well, I have \"M Audio Delta 1010 Multichannel 1/2 through M Audio 1010 Multichannel 11/12\" in my list. I also have \"M Audio Delta 1010 1/2 through M Audio Delta 1010 7/8 and S/PDIF\". Which I was surprised to have so many options

After making all the other changes to the settings I did see in the General tab my Buffer size (latency slider) did display 1.5ms. But Sonar is still choking with the same error. images/icons/frown.gif

Is it possible, that Sonar, even thought I uninstalled and reinstalled didn\'t completly get cleaned up? You know, several months ago I installed the Sonar 1.x DEMO. I did uninstall it when I purchased the upgrade to 2.0. I also had Calkewalk Pro Suite 9.3 on this system and uninstalled it once I got Sonar 2. You think there may be issues there???

More than appreciate your thoughts. images/icons/confused.gif

PS: The version I downloaded from M-Audio. Driver version: 5.10.00.0027 Panel version: 1.02.08

[killerbobjr]

When you say Sonar is choking, do you mean that when you start up Sonar, it pops up a message box saying that the audio devices you have selected aren\'t compatible and do you want to deselect them, or do you mean that you try playing a track, Sonar starts then immediately stops with an audio dropout error?

[Gknudson]

Originally posted by killerbobjr:
When you say Sonar is choking, do you mean that when you start up Sonar, it pops up a message box saying that the audio devices you have selected aren\'t compatible and do you want to deselect them..?<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Yes that is the error. Sorry I guess I should of used a better discription than \'choking\'. I get the message box saying the audio devices aren\'t compatible.....

thanks in advance.

[killerbobjr]

Okay, do this: reinstall the WDM driver and when it asks you if you want to overwrite a file that is newer than the one you are installing, select yes. Then start up Sonar, ignore any error messages, go to Options|Audio|Advanced tab and check \"Always use MME,\" then restart Sonar and see if you can select the Delta drivers in the Options|Audio|Drivers tab and playback through them. Let me know what your results are and we\'ll go from there.

[Gknudson]

Done. Reinstalled the WDM drivers. I first uninstalled the Vxd drivers. I was never asked to over-write any files though. Windows 98 dialog box does pop up briefly \"Windows updating settings...\" as the drivers finish loading. [NOTE: It did ask for the Win98 CDROM the very first time I installed these WDM drivers last week or so whenever that was - And to be honest I think I do remember that it asked to overwrite a file, but I said no.. but never asked again on subsequent installs..]...

One other thing, this happens EVERY time I installed the WDM drivers I get a msg. \"Cannot find/open Delta.sys file, press okay to continue and try again\". Strange, but it always found it the second time. I press okay and it completes.

As for Sonar - I deleted the aud.ini file. Started Sonar, ignored the error messages and went to Options|Audio|Advance and checked the \"Always use MME...\". Restarted Sonar. I was able to select Delta drivers. No more errors. I did try to play with the settings we had discussed earlier - figuring it wouldn\'t work I tried to set everything to 1.5ms latency. Sonar audio would \"stop\" immediately. I played around with settings, had the \"Analyzer\" pick settings etc. I am running 24bit. Seems when I played back audio, I would get \'stutters\' so I would tweak the Latency slider a little more. Just trying different settings..

So question my friend - Why would it work selecting the \"Always use MME drivers even with WDM exist\"? Isn\'t the use of that option is if you have a card that doesn\'t support WDM drivers, has MME drivers, and Sonar will default to use the MME drivers, which is slower? I only have the Delta 1010..... I do have a \"intergrated sound card\" but I recently disabled it in CMOS along with several other ports not needed to help isolate my popping/click issues. Which was gone and continued to be gone every since. That\'s when you and I hooked up if you will and my quest for the WDM drivers began. Hmm Do you think that since the intergrated sound card off my motherboard was active orginally, that windows 98 still thinks it\'s there or those legacy drivers, settings are causing issues??

Tag - you turn. thanks in advance. If I get time this morning I will try and get a good combination setting that works and report back of my findings. By the way, the 3rd party audio applications - GS160, Cool Edit Pro, etc. had no issues running audio as before. The only \"audio\" application which has a problem is Sonar. ...??

[killerbobjr]

And to be honest I think I do remember that it asked to overwrite a file, but I said no.. but never asked again on subsequent installs..]...
<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">
Then you have conflicting versions installed and you\'re going to have to clean everything out to make sure you have a clean install. Remove the Delta driver from the Devices list, reboot, then open a DOS window and go in x:\\windows\\system, x:\\windows\\system32\\drivers, and x:\\windows\\inf\\other and type in \"del delt*.*\" and then \"del ma_delt*.*\" (without the quotes) in each directory. Reinstall the WDM drivers, then reboot again. Start up Sonar again (with the \"Always use MME\" still selected) to check that the drivers are visible, then uncheck the \"Always use MME\" checkbox and restart Sonar. Hopefully, at this point, Sonar will recognize the WDM drivers and not pop up the error box.

[Alan]

I don\'t mean to throw cold water here but I went through the Whole WDM thing with M-Audio and 98se,waste of time if you ask me.I quickly found out that there was no difference between setting your buffers to their lowest settings in MME or using WDM in 98se,droputs very early and not all that usable.The earliest WDM version worked without a hitch as far as installing goes.I packed it in and swithched to 2K and now get 2.9 ms with high track counts.1.5ms seemed like 15ms in 98se,no comparison.

[Gknudson]

Killerbobjr ( and Alan ),

I had to set this aside for a week. It has been frustrating. I went through my entire system including registry removing ANYthing that resembled old delta keys, etc.

It (Sonar) still will not even work without having the \"Use MME drivers... \" checked in the Audio parameters. And of course, the latency issue is still there even running these WDM drivers.

Short of formating, re-installing Win98SE... Doing what you did KillerBobJr, I just don\'t know how to get around it.

Alan says I should just forget and go to Win2000.

But, if you got it to work KillerB, 1.5ms jammin away in Sonar .. then there must be something that is prohibiting the drivers to work correctly.

[Oggy]

Hi Gknudson,

Just wanted to inform you that inspired by your search for WDM drivers, I tried to install them according to killerbobjr\'s advice, and IT WORKED !!! I have Delta 1010, Sonar 2.0, Windows98SE, and for now it WORKS (i\'ve been testing it for past few hours...)... I will get on to you when I test it with Gigastudio.... Latency is much lower than with standard MME, when using DXi synths... but as I already said, I will inform you when I test it in REAL WORLD with Giga.... My advice is : Don\'t GIVE UP ! I\'ve tried Using Delta 1010 / Sonar 2.0 & Giga160 in Win2k and the only thing I got is headache... It seems that Win98se is still (unfortunately) the only reliable solution for AUDIO..... All the Best
Oggy

[Oggy]

I\'ve installed Gigastudio, but it pops up the \"Error code 6000 : No giga compatible card found\" message !!!... I wonder if it is because of using WDM drivers for Delta 1010 in WIN98se... Does anybody know how to solve this thing ? I know it is possible to overcome it because, if I understood it well, Gknudson was able to play Giga well under Win98se with WDM, the only problem was SONAR ? I have a reversed case - Sonar works FLAWLESSLY and Gigastudio won\'t even start..... HEEELP !

[Oggy]

It seems like I\'m talking to myself here, but nevermind... I want share some knowledge, as well as ask another question (and hopefully get an answer)... I managed to install WDM drivers under Win98SE, and make Sonar & Gigastudio work with them by deinstaling the WDM drivers, deinstaling GIGASTUDIO, then instaling MME drivers, starting Gigastudio & configuring it, and then putting back the WDM drivers... BUT ! I get dropouts, glitches & pops on any MORE complex song, even with latency of 300ms !!! So, I think that latency is not an issue here... it\'s obviously something else... So if anybody succseeded in getting LOW latency with Delta WDM drivers under Win98se or knows how to do it - plese ANSWER !!!

[Gknudson]

Originally posted by Oggy:
I\'ve installed Gigastudio, but it pops up the \"Error code 6000 : No giga compatible card found\" message !!!... I wonder if it is because of using WDM drivers for Delta 1010 in WIN98se... Does anybody know how to solve this thing ? I know it is possible to overcome it because, if I understood it well, Gknudson was able to play Giga well under Win98se with WDM, the only problem was SONAR ? I have a reversed case - Sonar works FLAWLESSLY and Gigastudio won\'t even start..... HEEELP !<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">HEY I AM HERE...Been busy! Thanks man for your input. You want me to make you go crazy???? You did read the thread correctly. I had absolute no problems with GS160.. It was always Sonar2. Strange. I would get the \"error opening driver..\" box.. but I could go right into my other apps on my DAW, GS160 playing the virtural Keyboard no prob, other audio apps etc all worked.

Did you apply the WDM 98SE patch?

[Gknudson]

Originally posted by Oggy:
Hi Gknudson,

Just wanted to inform you that inspired by your search for WDM drivers, I tried to install them according to killerbobjr\'s advice, and IT WORKED !!! I have Delta 1010, Sonar 2.0, Windows98SE, and for now it WORKS (i\'ve been testing it for past few hours...)... I will get on to you when I test it with Gigastudio.... Latency is much lower than with standard MME, when using DXi synths... but as I already said, I will inform you when I test it in REAL WORLD with Giga.... My advice is : Don\'t GIVE UP ! I\'ve tried Using Delta 1010 / Sonar 2.0 & Giga160 in Win2k and the only thing I got is headache... It seems that Win98se is still (unfortunately) the only reliable solution for AUDIO..... All the Best
Oggy<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hey Oggy!
Thanks. I am glad it worked for you - Well, at least for Sonar but we both are not quite there yet are we.. images/icons/frown.gif but hey :-) But between the great help I have been getting, and your success and mine.. We got to beat this...

From your encouragment, it seems that it DOES work. But, in the Win98SE o/s, there either is some left-over Reg info or files that causes the conflict. but what -

[Oggy]

Hi again Gknudson bro ! =)

What WDM Win98se patch do you refer to ? Do you mean Delta 1010 WDM drivers or something else ? I\'ve installed the WDM drivers in Win98se and made Gigastudio 160 2.5 & Sonar 2.0 work together, but the latency is KILLING ME !!! and I get dropouts, glitches, pop\'s & click\'s all the time... urgh... If you have some wisdom to share with me, I beg you to do so... hehe, cause I\'m going to freak-out soon... Thanx again, and hope that we solve our problem soon...

Oggy

[killerbobjr]

Short of formating, re-installing Win98SE... Doing what you did KillerBobJr, I just don\'t know how to get around it.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">
You don\'t need to reformat. Create a test Win98 installation just by selecting a different drive and/or directory name in setup and then changing the MSDOS.SYS paths back to your original installation after you\'re done testing (change the \"read only\" file properties).

I\'m guessing that there\'s a DLL or VxD somewhere that\'s causing a problem with the kernel streaming functions, preventing Sonar from opening the driver. A fresh install will tell you if this is true or not. Unfortunately it won\'t tell you how to fix your current installation, but at least you won\'t kill your current setup if this proves not to be the case.

[Gknudson]

Originally posted by Oggy:
Hi again Gknudson bro ! =)

What WDM Win98se patch do you refer to ?
Oggy<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I am refering to the WDMHotFix from Microsoft.

As for you pops/clicks etc. Have you gone throught the \"top-to-bottom check\" that has been recommended in these forums? Check on IRQ sharing, USB ports/Modem/Printer disabled, etc.....

I won\'t go into all the detail list unless you need the information, but I had those issues prior to my \"QUEST 4 1.5ms Latency\". During my \"system-checkover\" I discoverd some things that removed the click/pop issue.

[Gknudson]

Originally posted by killerbobjr:
Create a test Win98 installation just by selecting a different drive and/or directory name in setup and then changing the MSDOS.SYS paths back to your original installation after you\'re done testing (change the \"read only\" file properties).

Unfortunately it won\'t tell you how to fix your current installation, but at least you won\'t kill your current setup if this proves not to be the case.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Make sense! I will give this a try over the next few days. I will keep you posted. If it works, then I will know what I have to do.