Bowstroke Dirction in GPO

[Markleford]

In the GPO manual (p.28), there is a control notation for \"ALT = Up and down bowstrokes controlled with the sustain pedal\"...

Only I can\'t find anywhere that it may be listed in the instrument description tables! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Is ALT actually used in GPO?

- m

[Tom Hopkins]

Markleford,

Yes, for solo and Ens. string instruments. The solo string instruments all use the sustain pedal for two functions: legato mode and alternating bow strokes. Alternating bow strokes are accomplished by alternating the sustain pedal positions – first bow stroke, pedal up; following bow stroke, pedal down; next bow stroke, pedal up; etc. Legato mode applies if several notes are played in connected fashion while holding the sustain pedal in its depressed position, thus simulating the sound of sequential notes played on the same bow stroke.

Tom

[Styxx]

So let me get this straight Tom,
You hold the Alt key down while using the mod wheel both with the left hand at the same time using the right hand to play notes while the right foot controls the sustain pedal to get the expressions needed for the closest live sound of a performance? I only have two hands! What is this GPO twister? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Tom Hopkins]

Styxx,

It never occurred to me to associate the ALT key with this function but why not? Perhaps it’s best to find at least one controller for each available appendage. The crucial word here is “available.”

Tom

[Styxx]

[ QUOTE ]
Styxx,

It never occurred to me to associate the ALT key with this function but why not? Perhaps it’s best to find at least one controller for each available appendage. The crucial word here is “available.”

Tom

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, that will work. As long as the \"appendage\" doesn\'t sit below the belt! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
By the way Tom, I was trying to figure out where this function of up and down bowing is. I am not hearing a difference using the sustain pedal as you discribed. How exactly does this work? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[lumpyhed]

Its what ever controller you have bound for legato play applys bow stroke to those instruments instead. I think! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Crackbaby]

[ QUOTE ]
..You hold the Alt key down while..

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think you use the alt key at all /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

But im confused now. Really. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

If i use an ens string (eg. guarn ens 1) and push the pedal down, i will get a down stroke? If i hold it down and play notes with space between them there will be a lot of downstrokes? But if i play two notes overlapping (or not overlapping??) there will be legatostyle?

[rJames]

The blind leading the blind. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

One more blind opinion.

I think you have two places where there is alternate bowing. In each solo string instrument (not in the ens 1,2,3 / I don\'t think!!$#^%@@$%!) and in the Short bows.

To get an alternate bowing \"feel\" with any of the solo string instruments you play the first note with sustain pedal normal (0) then for the alternate bow you put the sustain pedal down (127). This will give you Tom\'s alternate bowing.

With the Short Bows, every other note is alternate (sustain pedal has no function)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Styxx]

In order to achive this effectively in real time playing one must practice practice practice! Can this be implemented after the notes are scored?

[Alan Lastufka]

Yes Styxx, this can be implemented after the notes have been recorded. Just use the key editor in your favorite sequencer to draw in the sustain pedal data. This is what I do, that way you can control exactly where the alternating bowing will take place (and you can delete the bow-stokes that fell in the wrong places) without ever altering your note value data.

[Styxx]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes Styxx, this can be implemented after the notes have been recorded. Just use the key editor in your favorite sequencer to draw in the sustain pedal data. This is what I do, that way you can control exactly where the alternating bowing will take place (and you can delete the bow-stokes that fell in the wrong places) without ever altering your note value data.

[/ QUOTE ]

COOL!!! I will do just that! One more question. Since I am new to using Overture, I can render the project to midi and export it to say Cubasis or Cakewalk for editing right?

[Joseph Burrell]

Yes you can. But I thought someone was saying that there was a barebones midi sequencer built into Overture (although, this may be the full version) so that you can edit midi controllers from within the program without the need to export. I could be completely whack on this though. Maybe on of the more experienced Overture users could comment on this feature. I think I remember Pat bringing it up in another thread about legato.

[Styxx]

Interesting. That would make it a lot easier and quite frankly I wondered that myself. Like I mentioned, I am new to Overture still on a learning curve. There is so much happening on this forum that I wish I had more time to inspect.
Yes, that would make it easier. It may even be more intrinsic than transfering midi to another sequencer like Cakewalk.
Hey Pro users! Shed some light please?

[mschiff]

Overture (both SE and the full version) does indeed have the ability to edit controller data. Click Window\\Graphics Window on the menu. You can choose the crontroller that you want to edit at the top, and draw in controller data at the bottom.

-- Martin

[Styxx]

[ QUOTE ]
Overture (both SE and the full version) does indeed have the ability to edit controller data. Click Window\\Graphics Window on the menu. You can choose the crontroller that you want to edit at the top, and draw in controller data at the bottom.

-- Martin

[/ QUOTE ]

Umph...Ka...the Wizard? I can\'t....Umph...Oh alright....I\'ll get you in to see the Wizard!

Gonna try that right now boy gonna try somehow and get it right!
Thanks

(Do you think if Dorothy would have known from the beginning she could have gone home she would have put up with all that @$&*! ?) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I DON\'T THINK SO! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Tom Hopkins]

Crackbaby wrote:

I dont think you use the alt key at all

Correct. The ALT key is never used in the library.

If i use an ens string (eg. guarn ens 1) and push the pedal down, i will get a down stroke? If i hold it down and play notes with space between them there will be a lot of downstrokes? But if i play two notes overlapping (or not overlapping??) there will be legatostyle?

This has been posted before but it should explain the subject clearly:

In keeping with the GPO philosophy of using programming techniques wherever possible in place of separate samples, the solo strings work as follows: The legato function is accomplished by using two layers of samples and switching between them with the sustain pedal. The first layer (pedal up) includes the complete attack portion of the sample. Think of this as the downbow. The second layer (pedal down) uses the same samples but eliminates the attack portion of the samples and begins playback at a point after the wave has reached its plateau. A small envelope is applied to the start point of these samples. When the sustain pedal is depressed this gives a very smooth (legato) transition between notes. Now, it so happens that the envelope chosen for the start point of the second layer samples has been designed to also closely resemble the slope characteristics of an upbow. So, not only does it function as a smooth transition slope for legato mode but it also can be used as a contrasting upbow to the first layer’s downbow. So, if you alternate pedal positions from note to note you will get the effect of alternating bow strokes – thus killing two birds with one stone, so to speak! And both birds are illusions. There is no conflict if you are using both section and solo strings in a legato setting since the pedal is then being used in identical fashion for both section and solo strings.

And from another posting on this subject:

The default pedal “up” position plays the attack of the sample in its entirety as recorded. The pedal “down” that activates the legato mode eliminates the attack portion of the sample and substitutes a shorter artificial attack envelope. Because the pedal “up” position is the full attack of the recorded sample it can be thought of as the downbow. The fact that the pedal “down” legato mode creates a bow stroke with a shorter attack phase makes it resemble (and function like) an upbow – in addition to its legato function.

Don’t make the “down-up” and “up-down” tougher than it is. This is only an issue of semantics brought on by the coincidental mechanical construction of the sustain pedal. If the comparative language bothers you sufficiently just think of it as “different” bow strokes rather than “down” and “up.” Had we reversed the function of the pedal, for the sake of language, to get “down-down” and “up-up,” that would have placed the samples with the artificially modified attack into the default “up” position – a decidedly illogical place for them to reside, especially from the point of view of practical usage. Symmetry is usually nice (and satisfying to that wonderful left brain hemisphere), but not at the expense of practicality.
-------------------

So, the specific answers to your questions are: Pedal up gives you a down bow. Pedal down gives you an up bow. Pedal remaining up will give you repeated down bows, pedal remaining down will give you repeated up bows. Connected notes with pedal down will give you legato. Once again, ignore the \"up-down\" semantics. If you are still confused give us a call.

rJames wrote:

I think you have two places where there is alternate bowing. In each solo string instrument (not in the ens 1,2,3 / I don\'t think!!$#^%@@$%!) and in the Short bows.

The same alternating bow function exists in the Ens instruments too. The functional construction of the Solo and Ens instruments is identical.

Tom

[Crackbaby]

Thank you mr Hopkins! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif