GPO is a scam

[jimorwell]

Hi, I just wanted t6 share my opinions of the GPO. It sounds bad. No stacato and no life. Still, I prefer my Advanced orchestra. What a waste of time. I waqs drawn in by the Garritan forum, but those guys must be on drugs. Is this the best that samples can do these days?

- Jim

[Eric G]

Isn\'t it a bit late for April Fool\'s? jimorwell MUST be kidding.

--Eric

[thesoundsmith]

Believe what you wish, but note - NONE of the other libraries/sample engines/synths etc. on the market can sustain a note and make it louder and brighter once it has been triggered. Sure, this $250 package doesn\'t sound as good as the $2500 package, but would you seriously expect it to?

It does a job nothing else to date has - offer a workable, playable full orchesttra for a price anyone can afford.

Yup, no staccato - yet. Lots of articulations missing - but that\'s what the other $2250 gets you...

Dasher

[greatzed]

EWQLSO silver has staccato samples and it\'s $300...

Shoot...I probably shouldn\'t have written that.

[Garritan]

PRIVATE AND STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL

DEAR SIR/MADAM:

My name is Dr. Gary Garritan currently serving as the President and Chief Officer of GARRITAN PERSONAL ORCHESTRA (GPO), in the Republic of Orcas. I understand this post may surprise you as we have not met neither in person nor by correspondence.

I come to know Northern Sounds as reputable persons to buy sample libraries, which involves the transfer of a huge sum of monies just for orchestral samples requiring maximum quality. This request may seem strange but I will crave your indulgence and pray that you view it seriously.

I AM WRITING TO YOU IN STRICT CONFIDENCE BECAUSE I URGENTLY REQUIRE YOUR ASSISTANCE.

We recorded the sounds of the very famous orchestras and made valuable recordings at great expense. Unfortunately at a LANS hang, one Mr. Honz Zimmar ran away with these sounds and began using them in blockbuster Hollywood movies. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif It was unbelievable and shocking. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif This is how we lost our sounds to a heartless Hollywood composer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif Recently Mr. Zimmar while bringing these sounds through the Airport (on route to Nigeria) was stopped by Memphis Custom Officers who seized the orchestral sounds and banned Mr. Zimmar and cohorts from Northern Sounds.

Because of my friendship with Memphibian officials , I now have in our possession the full orchestral library. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif To this effect I am so happy now I want to share my bounty with all of Northern Sounds and grant you right to use these valuable sounds in your enterprise for a modest fee. If you have been following the events on Northern sounds over the last few years, you will remember orchestral libraries costing thousands of U.S. Dollars for sounds alone.

I am now authorized to offer you full orchestral library with over 10 million dollars ($10,000,000.00) worth of orchestral instruments (including Stradivari, Steinway piano & pipe organ), along with sample player, notation program, sequencer, GPO Studio to interact with notation (with capture to wav), real-time staccato/articulation control, ability to build ensembles of your choosing, and more valuable bonuses - all for only $249 US Dollars. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Be rest assured that your very good fortune may give the illusion of a scam because you get so very much for so little investment, but I most humbly assure you it is a genuine. Please listen to over 70 user demos (with lots of life and many kinds of staccatos too) and see many user-created programs and tutorials that happy users have made on GPO website.

It is our respectful suggestion that you immediately accept these lucrative terms before I come to my senses.

Looking forward to hear from you soonest. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dr. Gary Garritan
Republic of Orcas
www.garritan.com (\"http://www.garritan.com\")

[peter269]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, I just wanted t6 share my opinions of the GPO. It sounds bad. No stacato and no life. Still, I prefer my Advanced orchestra. What a waste of time. I waqs drawn in by the Garritan forum, but those guys must be on drugs. Is this the best that samples can do these days?

- Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

At $249 list, GPO is an outstanding value, quick and easy to use, great sound, and with options to \"build an orchestra\" or \"build a section\" that no other library has. I have GPO, and while it doesn\'t have all the articulations, for $249 it has a lot PLUS a reverb unit PLUS drivers to run with Finale and Sibelius.

It also has great consistency, from section to section, in the available articulations and how they work.

When I\'ve tested demos from Garritan in Samplitude\'s Real Time Room Simulator (convolution reverb) the results have been outstanding. In using the Impulse Files Gary made available to registered owners of GOS, GPO gets even better. The sound is just tremendous.

Even if I wasn\'t a dealer for GPO, I\'d still have to point out that many users are getting great results. And the demos show it. So if you\'re not getting the sound tha tyou expected, rather than trashing the product, put out some demos and ask for input.

[PeterRoos]

Haha Gary, man, you crack me up!

Great post /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Hardy Heern]

I hope that this is just a wind up Jim! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif If GPO is a scam then it is one of the most brilliant, value for money scams available. It sure puts the, extremely, expensive high end sample library scams into perspective.

I don\'t know what type of music you like but just listen to the demos made with the GPO scam and compare it with the demos of the high end scams! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Silver is also a brilliant scam for the money but the GPO scam has some things that Silver doesn\'t....and vice versa.

There is no competition....they are both better than each other! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif When it comes to scams either is a good choice. Best get both scams then you\'ll have plenty to keep you busy.

Great wind up....

Frank

Nice one Gary....I\'ve had similar letters in my email asking if I would be prepared to handle some cash for a Nigerian.....but who hasn\'t!!

[Alexcremers]

President Garritan forgot the interpolate \"Make no mistake\" into his text.

[A_Sapp]

No staccatos?? Hmmm...

[lumpyhed]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif @ Jamor
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif @ Gary

[Briguy]

lmao. Gary took the time to do that, I could understand why!, nice gary. That was well thought out.

[Joseph Burrell]

D@mn... (\"D@mn...\") And I fell for it too. I\'ve been had. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Eric G]

I fell for it too, and can\'t wait for the next scam.

If tools like GPO are wrong, I don\'t wanna be right. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

--Eric

[leogardini]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this the best that samples can do these days?

[/ QUOTE ]
Is GPO the only library you have heard???

[rJames]

Wow, Gary, this is a side of you I\'ve NEVER seen before. Sarcastic, faceteous...I like it.

I almost thought that someone else was able to hack away and pose as you.

[MDesigner]

Gary, that was totally hilarious & clever.. you\'re my hero /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TC5]

Though I certainly wouldn\'t say GPO was a scam, I could understand your disapointment if your expectations were based on what you read in the Garritan forum. I figured out why you read nothing but glowing praise in that forum when I saw my less-than-enthusiastic comments deleted. If you believe what you read over there you\'d think Gary Garritan was a good candidate for canonization and that his blessed library will change your life in ways you never imagined (including make you rich as you work from home increase your virility and the size of you manhood and make you irresistible to women)...

[Bela D Media]

(...increase your virility and the size of you manhood and make you irresistible to women)...

Gary,

Dawn, my wife, is demanding that you refund all monies paid to Garritan for GPO!!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Eric G]

[ QUOTE ]
Though I certainly wouldn\'t say GPO was a scam, I could understand your disapointment if your expectations were based on what you read in the Garritan forum. I figured out why you read nothing but glowing praise in that forum when I saw my less-than-enthusiastic comments deleted. If you believe what you read over there you\'d think Gary Garritan was a good candidate for canonization and that his blessed library will change your life in ways you never imagined...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it helps me get my work done faster, because I don\'t need to tweak a few dozen volume curves & articulations per section, per piece. I just play them in. When I\'m done, I only bounce a few tracks over from Giga before mixing in the DAW instead of bouncing over a couple dozen - another time saver. No, GPO doesn\'t have neck-snapping brass or string staccato samples. There\'s no law against mixing in other libs.

I\'ve only had GPO for less than two weeks, and I\'m 2 cues/songs into my current 10-cue/song project. Those two have pretty similar character, similar sounds, similar textures. One took 3 days, start to finish, without GPO. One took less than 2 days, start to finish. Life-changing? Maybe not, but that 1.5 days was already worth the $250 the lib cost me.

--Eric

[Haydn]

Obviously you loaded sounds in without reading the manual. You are a legitimate user with a manual, correct?

[Houston Haynes]

This is just troll-baiting. Forget about it.

[KingIdiot]

actually thats wrong Dasher,

Dan Dean instruments and GOS, and SI, and VSL and QLSO have instruments that can sustain and have their brightness/dynamics increased/decreased.

As well as some Ultimate strings, some QLB, and Ethno Wrold with free updates.

GPO does do it in a uniue way and is consistant across the whole orchestra, but its not the only library that has EXP/DXF/Xfading/whatever you want to call it ability.

Even loley old AO has Xfading patches,...but they dont have volume control as well, so its just Xfading.

GOS was the first to really nail this technique down, then DDBE had the attack control option (velocity controls attack, Mod wheel controls sustain/dynamic).

solo instruments is a different story, but other libraries do have this as well. Not with EQ shaping, but otehr techniques that work pretty well.

GPO does deserve to be praised with regards to its programming thats for damn sure. Its consistancy is probably second to none, and thats because its actually tested really well, and programmed by a madman.

[KingIdiot]

it should also be mentioned that GPO has Short articulations mapped to velocity for all instruments, as far as I know. this will give you stacatto type articulations.

maybe you\'re missing something. Take a look at the manual, I\'m sure there are a bunch of not so obvious things that you could be missing.

[thesoundsmith]

[ QUOTE ]
actually thats wrong Dasher,

Dan Dean instruments and GOS, and SI, and VSL and QLSO have instruments that can sustain and have their brightness/dynamics increased/decreased.

As well as some Ultimate strings, some QLB, and Ethno Wrold with free updates

[/ QUOTE ]

KI, if you are talking about the new full orchestra libs, I can\'t argue/disagree, I haven\'t played them or even paid much attention to the demos. I would be very happy to be wrong in this, but as a Giga user (not Halion or Kontact) I\'ve not found any of my Dan Dean (bass, brass) QLB or SI (Amps and whatever, forget the name) that do real apparently-continuous simultaneous volume AND timbre shift as you sustain. My experience of midi is you might get a sfz or crescendo sasmple that had this effect, but to be able to freely change dynamically is out of the ballpark.

If the newer libs can do this in Giga, I\'d love to know which ones (except GOS, I don\'t do that kind of string writing, my strings are either all pads that could be done nearly as well on a rompler or solo violin/cello that I love how GPO plays...

But if anyone is aware of this capability, it\'s you-I know you stay on top of it, Please give me a few examples in the under $500 market, if they exist-especially which QLB patches-I never found this (is it just a RTFM issue?)

And Dr. Gary, that\'s a whale of a post!

Dasher

[KingIdiot]

with QLB, Its in some of the free updates I did a while back (I have to make sure they are all up there still, I\'m pretty sure I took them down then re uploaded, but I\'m not sure which patches went up). And I seem to remember some of the trombones having a filter set to the modwheel, for timbre change, and no its not a RTFM issue, that library is programmed extremely terribly by todays (and even when it was released, a bit) standard

SISS, has it as well. VotA has it (only timber change not volume combines....except in the free updates I started a while back). Advanced orchestra has it (again only timbre not volume). Ultimate Strings (again update), VSL (cant wait for the smaller sections to see how this works), Some rare instruments I believe (cant remember). Prosonous I believe. there are some \"ensemble\" instruments that fake dynamics in DD solo brass and woodwinds (in a Dan Dean provided update)

The ensemble brass has DXF instruments. The basses are only one velocity, so in its early format it was impossible to make them. Its totally possible in Giga, but was never exploited (I never touched the idea because I hated the Giga EQs...but maybe I should have). In Kontakt it would be easy to get more dynamic range out of the basses...but ultimately it would be faked (like I believe GPO is, which I\'m only pointing out to say that its not a bad thing to fake this stuff by any means, by obviously good execution in GPO...I have to cover my tracks when I say things that can be misinterpreted).

There are more even now. I dunno. There\'s jsut WAAAAAY too many libs out there.

Some instruments jsut dont work well with this type of control tho. Guitars for instance, you rarely swell up and down the dynamic, its very percussive, jsut like piano.

I\'m developing some ideas for Guitar dynamic controls with additive synthesis techniques, and noise shaping with phase aligned inputs pre amp stage, but having samples distorted out of the box for different volume sets...of course clean samples will be an option. We\'ll see how it turns out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif (if anything it will be a unique set of sounds)

I agree with you that its mostly newer stuff, but GPO definitely isn\'t the only lib out there.

If you want help in developing some more QLB patches for yourself just let me know. I stopped updating QLB for myself in giga once I moved that library to Kontakt and fell in love with Time Machine. (you can get real time dynamic control, but you have to think slightly differently than mod wheel...up...dynamic up.....mod wheel down...dynamic down, but the end result is much more realistic IMO). Anyhow, you can use a combination of filters and even EQ the original samples and Xfade, and you\'ll get some good results I\'m sure.

It might be fun to work on some ideas together and then share with the user base, since that seems to be lost on NS nowadays.

[retroz]

I might be a little new to samples but I have to add something that doesn\'t quite fit.
I trade stocks from time to time and this original poster sounds like what we call a \"pumperr\" someone who starts a thread than jumps back in with another alias to finish it, or to bring the topic to the forefront of the board.

<font color=\"red\">Note </font> the the original poster only posted once yet has a dual star rating. Self imposed I\'m sure.

(edit),
For what it\'s worth the opposite is called a basher who posts over and over with zero facts to get you to repsond and for every response, he/she gets paid a percentage.

[rkmusic]

What such a post-Easter monday man!

[leogardini]

Mister Jim is trying to have some fun opening a new fight and see some people banned here , but so far no one was fool enough to begin one!!!

[stephaniel]

Hello, I am new to the forum. I was turned onto it by a friend of mine. On the surface, what disturbes me the most is this developers lack of serious consideration whenever anyone has a negative comment about his product.

In looking at some previous posts, anytime a negative comment is made, Mr. Garritan makes extreme light of the situation, thus giving the impression that nothing could ever be wrong with his product. Like the poster above has stated, the Garritan forum has a reputation of any negative posts being deleted.

I currently use a Roland Sound Canvas. I have looked at GPO but the poor sounding demos and lack of answers to direct questions has put me off. Specifically, I would like to know, was GPO chromatically sampled, or if not, what intervals was is sampled at AND, is it one velocity or multiple veolcity?

Sincerely,
Stephanie

[Haydn]

Stephanie,

What forum have you been looking at? All the items you have mentioned have been answered over and over again with direct answers. Do a simple search and the posts are there.

[Joseph Burrell]

I would also like to state that there have been many posts disputing the library on Garry\'s forum that have not been deleted. I would rather Garry (who is very professional in my rather biased opinion) make light of the subject than start and endless flame war between libraries as is known to happen around here. I think everyone\'s had about enough of this thread anyway. If you don\'t like it, don\'t buy it, it\'s very simple. I would like to add, some very experience composers and NS-ites use this library, so it must be worth something.

[MusicalCharities]

Stephanie,

First of all, be careful before you label a comment as being \"negative\". It may in fact be realistic and justifiably identify a sample libraries weak points.

No sample library in my experience has ever been perfect. Back when I started getting into sampling a few years ago, I was frequently under the false impression that this one library would be PERFECT for me, and that I would never need another once I made an investment in the library. Then I realized that I while I was able to get a certain sound that fit my piece well with the new library, I could not get the sound I needed using the same library for other projects. Soon I identified other libraries that fit my needs in that other area, but again, they had shortcomings, and I soon myself buying another library, and yet another...

GPO is an outstanding value for 250 dollars. It does have it\'s weak points, which for me would be the trumpets, and trombones--there is simply no way for me as of yet to get that \"grand sustain\" that I love so much. But I can\'t even to tell you just how many uses I have found for the piano and solo strings.

I think that every developer has a deep understanding of their libraries strengths and weaknesses. Some will admit to it openly, while others will deny it. I am not too sure what Mr Garritan would openly acknowledge as being a shortcoming in his GPO, but for 250 dollars, I think I\'ll keep my mouth shut so I can keep buying his products in the future.

[charles]

i normally keep out of these discussions

but Mr Garritan and his team have done a great job, and have actually zeroed in on some flaws in the major sample libraries by the big boys

but everyone has to work within limitations, so there has been some sacrifice in regards to sonic quality to my ear, but this isnt really meant as a criticism because the goal after all was that GPO be used as a sketch pad and that as far as i can tell it does admirably

[Haydn]

There have been quite a few negative posts on the GPO forum regarding Macs. I haven\'t seen any of these deleted.

Donnie\'s back!

[TC5]

It appears the original poster was indeed a troll. Doesn\'t change the fact that the Garritan forum sometimes reads like an infomercial mascarading as a discussion group...

[Garritan]

TC5,

I don\'t recall your post and it may have been lost accidently. My apologies if this has happened.

There\'s been a great deal of lively discussion on the GPO forum since its inception. Most of it constructive and positive and some of it critical. There were criticisms of Kontakt Player problems when GPO was first released. The more recent Mac OSX threads were a bit heated and very critical. But this is a good thing. Constructive criticism it is the most important thing to improve our library. With each new update, we have taken comments and criticisms seriously and improved our product.

The GPO forum is a great community with mainly users helping users. TC5, I welcome your participation.

Gary Garritan

[thesoundsmith]

[ QUOTE ]
with QLB, Its in some of the free updates

[/ QUOTE ]

Aha - I never saw any updates for QLB - I\'ll have to look. Thanks, Ashif.

I\'ve taken many of my sustained giga instruments (brass and reeds, mainly) and added a midi filter at cc82 (one I never used for anything else.) I find it somewhat useful, but still the primary volume comes from note-on velocity, and my attempts at matching velocity with filter gestures is pretty lame, IMO. GPO is not the greatest sample set by any means, but I find it much simpler and more authentic sounding in terms of timbre/volume change than QLB. QLB has better base samples, but I use GPO for the natural feel I can achieve without hours of reconstructive midi surgery. Besides, the swells and sfz samples are somehow never the right length or tempo...

I don\'t have VSL, or GOS - my work (and musical ooutlook) generally doesn\'t require super-accurate instrument sounds. If I need that, I\'ll bring in real players. I tend to think in terms of sonic archetypes - if I can achieve the emotional and aesthetic response from a Roland SC-88 Sound Canvas string pad, then I don\'t need a $1K violin library. Of course if that doesn\'t work, and GPO doesn\'t either, I have to rewrite the part to make it fit the libs or synths I DO have, or spring for a better one - but so far, my string writing is primitive at best, and all those great orchestral articulations don\'t matter.

Big Band brass and sax sections, OTOH, I want to be as dynamic and colorful as possible; with QLB this leads to playing a part, then taking each note and adding CC11 and CC82 (filter) individually. Way too slow. With GPO, it\'s frequently played in, and relatively minor editing fixes it. Not perfect by a long shot, but better, and still sounds more natural than my laborious note-by-note edits with QLB. (I still need it for saxes, tho.. .)

Thanks for the offer, Ashif. I\'d love to work with you on some of these ideas, but I\'m STILL trying to finish my world fusion CD, and my live gig updates (switched our duo\'s backing tracks from SC-88 to iPod, so my background music can now use all the samples and other synths in my studio - basically means rewriting all my last four years\' work to make it as good as reasonable - the difference between a GM nylon guitar and Yellow Tools or SI is way too great to just remix...

Funny, since I\'ve retired from my day gig I get less time to do my music /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

But to keep this OT, I should add thatI\'m overall happy with GPO - not perfect, but unmatched for the money, IMHO. I haven\'t tried Silver, but it doesn\'t have saxes either. (And it\'s still 20% more expensive...)

Dasher

[KingIdiot]

Dasher, we\'ll discuss it further in PM.

[thesoundsmith]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Dasher

[Ted Vanya]

Your Holyness, St. Garritan:

No, I do not have GPO. However, I listened to most demos. Just today I had the Magic Flute, I play Mozart Clarinet Conc. almost every day. Both were done by Duncan.
I find little things in both which I would have done differently, because I LOVE different parts of the whole to underscore than Duncan, or any one of you.
However, Duncan is a master, and if he can do a piece like this with GPO so could we, if we would also be masters.
Your Holyness, I have never had the pleasure of such a down to earth, helpfull and all around nice guy with any of my software purchases than you. Bless you, and keep on performing miracles, please.
(no Jim, I am not getting a discount!)

Ted /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[robgb]

[ QUOTE ]
have looked at GPO but the poor sounding demos and lack of answers to direct questions has put me off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but I have to doubt the sincerity of this post. There are over 70 GPO demos on Garritan\'s site. Certainly SOME sound worse than others, but many of them are superb.

Even if you have no interest whatsoever in GPO, you have to admit that in the right hands it can sound pretty fantastic. So excuse me if I think Stephanie\'s post is a bit disingenuous.

If I\'m mistaken, then I would urge Stephanie to take another listen before she passes judgment. Particularly the work of Duncan Brimstead, Francesco Marchetti, William West and others.

[Alan Lastufka]

Jim/Steph,

I just wanted to say \'thank-you\' for this post, even Gary couldn\'t have come up with a better marketing scheme, are you sure you guys aren\'t on his payrole?

There\'s been nothing but an increase in sales and interest regarding GPO - I just hope he\'s paying you guys enough for this... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Bela D Media]

\"I just wanted to say \'thank-you\' for this post, even Gary couldn\'t have come up with a better marketing scheme, are you sure you guys aren\'t on his payrole?\"

We have a few flower arrangements to send out as well /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Remember, there is no such thing as bad publicly. Most here are far too talented and intelligent to be influence by posts of this nature...

[fjafan]

I am only a hobbyist, but I use GPO every time I sit down to compose something. I own 8 or 9 other libraries, and find this one inspiring to use because it sounds good and is comparatively easy to work with. YMMV.

The real point I want to make is that Gary\'s participation in this forum was the impetus for me to make this purchase. I figured with his depth of commitment to his customers, and his passion to help, I couldn\'t go wrong.

And I didn\'t.

Dave

[Tarkio Road]

[ QUOTE ]
There\'s been nothing but an increase in sales and interest regarding GPO - I just hope he\'s paying you guys enough for this... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
There has actually been an increase in sales because of this one thread?

Just about every library currently made has been trashed at one time or another in these forums. We must be creating a pretty hefty increase in all sample library sales! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[greatzed]

GPO SUCKS!!!! GPO SUCKS!!!!!

I just increased sales 2%!

[dewdman42]

[ QUOTE ]
i normally keep out of these discussions

but Mr Garritan and his team have done a great job, and have actually zeroed in on some flaws in the major sample libraries by the big boys

but everyone has to work within limitations, so there has been some sacrifice in regards to sonic quality to my ear, but this isnt really meant as a criticism because the goal after all was that GPO be used as a sketch pad and that as far as i can tell it does admirably

[/ QUOTE ]

And it will only get better in the future. I think GPO represents a fundamental change in approach that more libraries will adopt. But let\'s see what happens.