Sonar vs. Cubase

[NeoDavinci]

As GPO users, do you prefer Sonar or Cubase?
Mark

[Styxx]

I\'ve been using Cubasis that came with GPO and once I got used to it, I find it works well. However, with all that I\'ve been reading about Sonar, I am starting to lean in that direction. A lot of the demos by these fine musicians are produced on Sonar and seem to me at least have an edge.
But, I feel it is more of personal preference and what works best for you that should dictate your ultimate decision.
That\'s just my 3 gold pieces worth. arrr matey!

[William West]

I have been using Sonar for the past few years and couldn\'t be more pleased. I started out with Logic (incredible product for so many) before apple bought emagic and went Mac only. Logic for me just didn\'t make sense (a very expensive mistake). It just didn\'t fit the way I thought. I think it is really important to purchase a product that will become an extension of you and be a tool not a hindrance.

That said, I feel it is a very personal decision you have to make. By the time you arrive at Cubase or Sonar, you are looking at some of the best products out there. If there are free trial offers from both companies, download them and try them out. I think you would then be able to make the best decision for your own needs and style.

After much deliberation following my Logic fiasco, I chose to go with Sonar and am now using Sonar 3 PE. There is so much in Sonar that I will probably never use, but I wanted the flagship product rather than a secondary version - I felt that it would serve me well and allow me to grow into it rather than out of it.

Good luck, It’s a tuff decision. Just do your homework and make your decision \'eyes wide open\'!

William

[Junkmonkey]

No contest: Sonar wins...

*ahem, actually, I guess it\'s a matter of taste. Cubase has some features that Sonar does not, and vice versa. They are, for the most part, minor. There are also subtle differences in layout, display, and terminology. But do as has been suggested, go get yourself some demos and try em out!

One thing I can say for sure, Sonar has much better effects /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif (but I\'m a Sonar guy, so take that for what it\'s worth).

- Junk

[Waywyn]

after being on forums for about 5 years and reading a lot about cubase vs sonar, sonar vs logic, logic vs cubase etc etc...

generally all programs can play and record midi and audio.
all programs have disadvantages and advantages.

so it\'s just a matter of: look at all sequencers, try out the working interface and check out what advantages you like most and then buy the program.

i guess nobody can say logic definitely rules or sonar or whatever.
each program has bugs and each program has very cool features.

what makes the good music and sound is the guy sitting in front of the PC or MAC /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

other musicians usually ask for the libs you used and not which sequencer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

... but i remember one mail i received after i posted \"Nuclear Dawn\" in another forum, where a guy asked me where to get this program where to do such music with and if it\'s shareware or downloadable for free somewhere /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[replicant]

I totally agree with Alex,

Everyone owes it to themselfes to try out all options. This has so much to do with if you like the \"thinking\" of the program, and how it fits your workflow. So try out both Sonar and Cubase or even one of the notation software, like Sibelius (might even suite you better. I think Sibelius would work with GPO /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif )

You\'re probably going to spend much time in front of your DAW so get something that makes it as easy as possible for your workflow.
Don\'t forget the purpose - make music /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Hardy Heern]

I prefer them both, although I\'m a Cubase user myself.

Cubase is German and Sonar is American....if that helps.

Frank

[Shazbot]

Hmmm, I\'m an American, but 100% German stock as far back as I know, so I\'m torn... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I\'ve been recording GPO with Cubasis and it works pretty well for me, though there are some inherent limitations and issues with it that have made it difficult to do a larger scale piece.

I resisted getting Sonar for a long time. Actually, I once bought an earlier version but returned it after a few days, as it seemed very convoluted and unstable on my system compared to the audio programs I was using. But the last couple years I\'ve gotten more into working with MIDI and VSTi and the like, and I recently tried out the demo for Sonar 3 and realized how much better I like it than the previous version I had, and how much better I should be able to work with GPO with that as compared to Cubasis.

So I\'m definitely planning on getting Sonar 3 in the near future as soon as I\'ve got the extra cash and they offer another deal to upgrade to it, which they seem to do every month or two in their e-mail newsletters. They\'re asking $199 right now for previous Cakewalk customers but I\'m holding out until it\'s $150 or so, which should come around soon.

But Cubasis doesn\'t really compare to Cubase, at least as I understand it. Cubase apparently has quite a lot more to it... so I can\'t necessarily draw a comparison between them.

[robgb]

I used Sonar for quite some time and loved it. Can\'t say a bad word about it.

BUT, then I tried Nuendo -- which is basically a souped-up Cubase -- and have never turned back. In my opinion, Nuendo is SO much better than Sonar. I like the layout, the features, the ease of use and the vst effects much, much better.

In the end, however, it\'s all a matter of taste.

[Shazbot]

[ QUOTE ]
In the end, however, it\'s all a matter of taste.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I\'d say in the end it\'s a matter of what you can afford. Nuendo is how much? Over $1,000, right? Sonar is $479 ($199 or less for previous Cakewalk customers).

[nexus]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifWell I\'ve been a Cakewalk user like, forever, so I am biased. I got into Cakewalk after my old Atari 1040 STE platform which I ran KCS Omega on. Cakewalk incorporated much from KCS Omega into their midi sequencers.

The CAL programs you can run under SONAR are often amazing. NO OTHER sequencer to my knowledge has this capability.

I have experimented with all the other sequencers over the years. I think Cubase is quite elegant, but Logic is just confusing, though ANY program can be learned with time. I think Steinberg should be congradulated for introducing the VST standard. Now if it could only be adopted universally...

So many forums debate this topic to death. As others here have said, it really comes down to a matter of taste. I wish SONAR did some things differently and do wish they\'d totally DUMP DXi, but basically I don\'t think I could compose anymore if I lost it!

Now how\'s that for product loyalty!

[dnortana]

FWIW, I went through a decision process recently, needing a sequencer/DAW for my GPO laptop. Most of my studio work is done on Digital Performer (Mac), so I had to start from scratch on PC (after abandoning Logic 5.5 which I had, but quickly gave up on).

I ended up choosing Cubase over Sonar, mainly because of its more convenient and powerful continuous controller editing capability. That swung the deal for me, since so much of the work with GPO and other sample libraries requires a lot of CC work.

There are demo\'s available for both Sonar and Cubase, so a careful test and comparison is possible. Both are capable programs, and it seems to come down to finding the one that best matches how you work, and your particular needs.

Trond

[dewdman42]

I don\'t use either one, but from what I understand, Cubase has better audio features and Sonar has better midi. Or perhaps a better way of putting it is that Cubase/Nuendo are more ideally suited for the sound recording process...and perhaps Sonar is better suited for the composing process...

But in either case, they are both very fine products and you can\'t really go wrong with either one. If I were going to use PC for sequencing, I would probably get Sonar myself.

[robgb]

I think it\'s a misperception that Cubase/Nuendo favors audio over midi. It handles midi very nicely, certainly as well as Sonar, from my experience.

I don\'t think you can go wrong with either. As I said, I love Sonar. But Nuendo was like a step up to me. It\'s amazing.

Then again, there\'s always Massiva.... which is a pretty good program for $50.

[Looper]

I\'ve used Sonar 2.2 and Cubase 1.06. The reason I chose to go with Cubase as my main sequencer was it had much better scoring functionality than Sonar, that was 2 years ago and so far no regrets.

You\'ll need to chose a program based on how \"you\" like to work.


Looper

[galvedro]

I was an Atari Cubase user many years ago. But when I moved to PC, I found that Cakewalk was much more stable and easy to use for my purposes. Then, I stayed with it untill Sonar 1. I was happy with it Buuuuuut, then I discovered that virtual instruments where much better integrated in Cubase VST than in Sonar, and then moved again to my origins. Now we have the Cubase Sx series and Nuendo, wich have been fully redesigned, I can tell you, and will no longer mantain that extrange German software feeling, you know what I\'m talking about (with all my respects to German software makers, of course).

In my opinion, (and just my modest opinion), Cubase is better suited to work with virtual instruments. The integration between midi control tracks and audio outputs is excellent. I like very much the core audio engine as well, I think the mixer is slightly better than Sonar\'s. I can\'t tell you about the bundled effects, as I usually insert my own, but I think they are quite similar in quality.

But if you like to write your music directly on the staff, then you will feel more comfortable with Sonar. Cubase is deffinitely for the PianoRoll\'s men. Cubase has more capabilities for editing and rendering the staff, but it is not suited to use as a scketch pad.

My two cents,

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[KevinKauai]

When I decided to go SoftSequencer (again), I looked at all of the available crop and realized than any of them would be a significant investment of time JUST to do the basics. So I allocated 45 days without any significant assignments to make the transition.

Because I wanted a full-featured SoftSampler, I choose HALion (over the even more complex GigaSampler) and that dictated my choice of Cubase SX 2. I figured that the two would work well together since they both come from Steinberg. (What I didn\'t count on is that they both share similar quality of manuals -- which on a scale of 1 to 5 I certainly couldn\'t place higher than a 3. If ever there was a \"pubs\" group that cared MORE about appearance and LESS about ease of finding the information one needs, I\'d like to hear your nominee. When I made a complaint about the quality of documentation on the HALion forum at Cubase.net, I received a strong rebuke from the principal monitor -- one \"pink canary\" [sic] -- for using the word \"abysmal\" without 50 feet of the product.)

I purchased 3 additional Cubase SX books and the excellent $25 \"Smart Street Guide\" from Alexander. I am slowly learning more and more of the fine features of Cubase SX and getting fairly facile at finding my way through the complexity to the point where it’s more “me” now than simply doing battle with the “tools”. Oh! Did I mention that this started on this past December 15? So all-in-all it’s only a six-month investment!

I hope this helps … my $0.02, at least . . . Kev /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Craig Reeves]

I use Sonar. I\'ve never used Cubase so I wouldn\'t be able to tell ya. There\'s not really any need for me to move to another sequencer at this point because I\'m perfectly happy with Sonar 3.

And I like DXi more than VSTi...which seems to be the differing opinion than what most people think on these forums....I\'ve had less problems with DXi.

[Brian2112]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I\'ve been a Cakewalk user like, forever, so I am biased. I got into Cakewalk after my old Atari 1040 SE platform which I ran KCS Omega on.

[/ QUOTE ]

KCS OMEGA! Now there was the real deal! It was all midi (no audio).To this day, nothing compares with the things you could do with midi on that software. They were the first ones to introduce the \"Piano Roll\", the \"Song Editor\", (which is the main screen now in all sequencers), and to an extent, the concept of loops.

When the Atari platform kind of disappeared, I went in search of a comparable product. I went with Cubase. It didn\'t even come close to what you could do with KCS, but at the time, it was the closest thing. After dongle hell, I became fed up with Cubase, and also, I felt that it kind of forced you to work a certain way.

I then decided to go with Logic, but again was dissapointed. At this time, the Cakewalk product was considered kind of a toy. I decided to get it because of a sensible copy protection scheme. I have not looked back. With Sonar 3 Producer Edition, not only is it not a toy, it draws envy from some of my buds that have very expensive Pro Tools setups.

Cubase is a fine product, and as always, it\'s a matter of preference. But I must confess, after using all of them (except DP), I can\'t imagine using another platform now. And it just keeps getting better.

Just my oppinion, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Brian

[CHudson]

I have the latest versions of Sonar, Cubase and Nuendo available to me at the Studio, I use Sonar 99% of the time.

[Junkmonkey]

I guess this thread answers it.

There is no answer. It\'s a matter of taste. But, one person mentioned that Cubase had better audio features while Sonar had better midi. I think he meant it the other way around! The midi features in Sonar are kinda weak - but the audio is amazing. The built in Sonitus:fx are incredible. I\'m pretty sure Cubase has a lot of extra midi editing functions that Sonar does not. I could be wrong - and the last time I used Cubase was loonnggg ago *shrug

- Junk

[dnortana]

I\'ll repeat, continuous controller editing is far superior in Cubase than in Sonar. Aside from that - for me - make or break issue, I would have chosen Sonar.

Trond

[dewdman42]

no I actually meant Sonar was better midi...but perhaps I didn\'t clarify that statement. What I really meant is that Sonar is better in terms of \"composing\" while Cubase might be better in terms of post production. Sonar has a lot of great midi capabilities and for a long time Cakewalk was stable with midi while PC Cubase was completely terrible (I\'m talking version 2.x of cubase days). Now as to whether some particular editing task might be better on Cubase or Sonar, I can\'t say (such as editing controller data, for example).. for this reason you gotta try them all I guess and see which way works best for you. I only meant that I think Sonar is really geared correctly for composing music...while cubase and Nuendo...to me...feel like they are geared more towards producing music that is already composed. Not that either platform can\'t be fully used for either purpose...

cheers

[kitekrazy]

I stay away from products that require a dongle. I\'ve never had a problem with a app failing to run after I entered the serial number during installation. I admire Cakewalk for sticking with the old method. It hasn\'t put them out of business yet.
Cakewalk is also more generous in keeping their customers with affordable upgrades.

For those of you waiting for a price drop in the PE, Cakewalk just dropped the upgrade price (Sonar 2XL to PE) by $30.

[McGroarty]

Ditto here. I was preparing to order Cubase this evening before learning it had a dongle, now I\'m back to looking for alternatives.

The dongle was a dealbreaker with Cubase, since I already know how the dongle story ends -- I lose it and I\'m out $500, or I for get it\'s on my laptop when I throw it in my bag, and I lever the USB port off the motherboard.


I\'m examining the Cakewalk Sonar demo right now -- my main interest is in standard score layout, and everything else is a bonus.

Are there any other packages people suggest in the ~$500 range?

[MusicalCharities]

I don\'t have Nuendo or Cubase, but I can easily see why you use Sonar 99% of the time. 3.0 producer edition is really versatile, and well worth the investment.

[Shazbot]

At the risk of being crude, I must ask, what is a dongle??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[dnortana]

Just in case your question is a serious one, a dongle in this context is a small, copy protection \'plug\' that fits into the USB port. It\'s advantage is that it allows you to install and \'authorize\' a program on as many computers as you wish, though of course you can only use one at a time. It\'s disadvantage is that if it breaks, or worse yet is stolen or lost, you have lost the ability to use your program.

Trond

[nexus]

[ QUOTE ]
Just in case your question is a serious one, a dongle in this context is a small, copy protection \'plug\' that fits into the USB port. It\'s advantage is that it allows you to install and \'authorize\' a program on as many computers as you wish, though of course you can only use one at a time. It\'s disadvantage is that if it breaks, or worse yet is stolen or lost, you have lost the ability to use your program.

Trond

[/ QUOTE ]

I had that happen once with a Steinberg product. Dongle off the ol\' printer port broke the dongle and connector trying to remove it to service my PC.

After much cussing and vexing over it, I bought the same program \'cracked\' at a fraction of the replacement dongle price (at that time) so I would never be plagued again by that \'dongle\'.

I am not advocating the financial support of \'pirates\', far from it. But in a certain situation one can be forced to seek out a \'crack\' just for for the sake of one\'s peace of mind.

I do not advocate buying a crack version UNTIL one has already bought and paid for the legal version. As I said I only had this happen once.

Another situation might be if the company is no longer doing business and you obtain a crack so you will not be without authorization.

Steinberg just thinks everybody will buy their software with dongles no matter what, so they don\'t care if its a huge inconvience at some point.

Btw, on the subject of the midi superiority of SONAR, all one has to do is work with the CALs and midi plug-ins to know it\'s way better for raw composing. The \'multi-track\' piano roll is terrific too.

As for KCS Omega II, it has never been surpassed for midi work. If you can ever get hold of an old Atari STE (STEEM is not as good for this) and start working with it, you might be quite surprised at how fast you can get something worked up in midi!