Kontakt as GS alternative question

[Joris de Man]

Hi!

After a recent HD crash/PC hardware problem I\'ll be looking to reinstall GS next week...probably.
I\'ve noticed my way of working has changed a lot since I got a new Dual G4 and started using the EXS. The high polyphony count, size of instruments I could load and number of instances I could use has lowered my usage of GS significantly, although I still use it for patches that don\'t sound as good on the EXS (such as the ones that use filtering etc.)
I also hate the fact that since GS hasn\'t seen a recent update it is not on par with the current processor speeds: the limit is set at half a gig of samples (ram, that is) and 160 voices eventhough newer pc\'s are coping easily with that. My \'old\' athlon 1.6 never hit beyond 22% cpu usage, and it was annoying to see that I couldn\'t use more than that since GS set a limit to it.
The EXS has shown me that other softsamplers are capable (quite easily actually) to matching GS\' performance, which is why I\'m interested in Kontakt.

For these reasons I\'m looking at other ways to use my new PC; one of those is running Kontakt in standalone to takeover the GS duties. I do my sequencing on the mac and the PC is generally used for GS sample stuff and database only.
My questions are:
-can Kontakt load all gig patches and get a similar kind of performance?
-if I want to run a similar featureset as GS, do I need to run 4 seperate instances of Kontakt to get the same set (4x16 midichannels), or can this be done from one instance on stand alone mode?
-what is the voicelimit per instance (if I recall correctly 256, but I\'m unsure)
-what is the latency on standalone?
-number of outputs?

Cheers!

Joris

[Rich Pell]

My questions are:
-can Kontakt load all gig patches and get a similar kind of performance?
1) This is the thing~ I think if you have enough RAM , u can get pretty close. Alot of \"power\" composers will beg to differ. but close is good enough for me since Kontakt offers way more other advantages to me that GS. Kontakt currently cant import all the giga \"dimensions\" correcty. you`ll need a 3rd party translator.(chikensystems or CDXtract)

-if I want to run a similar featureset as GS, do I need to run 4 seperate instances of Kontakt to get the same set (4x16 midichannels), or can this be done from one instance on stand alone mode?
No, you`ll need 4 instances. I`d look into Stienbergs V-stack and run them vst from your 2nd comp.

-what is the voicelimit per instance (if I recall correctly 256, but I\'m unsure)
yea ,256 is right.

-what is the latency on standalone?
Whatever your soundcard can handle,right now on my RME i`m at 3 ms...)

-number of outputs?
4 stereo, 4 mono..there maybe more i cant remember.

Hope this helps, Rich

[Joris de Man]

Hey rich,

You told me everything I needed to hear! Thanks!
I have an RME as well, so latency shouldn\'t be an issue. I don\'t think I can use Vstack, as I use Logic as my main sequencer on the Mac, but I might be wrong.
I\'ll have to give it a try!

Thanks for your response!

Cheerio,

Joris

[Hildog]

Originally posted by Joris de Man:
...I don\'t think I can use Vstack, as I use Logic as my main sequencer on the Mac, but I might be wrong.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I think you can use VStack...personally, I use Chainer ( http://xlutop.com/html/chainer.html (\"http://xlutop.com/html/chainer.html\") ), but I think they pretty much do the same things (VST host) except that VStack will integrate with the whole Steinberg System Link or whatever it\'s called. I don\'t use Cubase so I don\'t think I (nor you) could take advantage of that.

[Rich Pell]

Originally posted by Hildog:
</font><blockquote><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><hr /><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Originally posted by Joris de Man:
...I don\'t think I can use Vstack, as I use Logic as my main sequencer on the Mac, but I might be wrong.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I think you can use VStack...personally, I use Chainer ( http://xlutop.com/html/chainer.html (\"http://xlutop.com/html/chainer.html\") ), but I think they pretty much do the same things (VST host) except that VStack will integrate with the whole Steinberg System Link or whatever it\'s called. I don\'t use Cubase so I don\'t think I (nor you) could take advantage of that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Yea, hilldogs right ,U can use v-stack/fxteleport on a 2nd PC to run any vsts..u just can`t take advantage of system link unless your running a Stienberg seq. of choice. The good thing about system link is that it integrates well with V-stack so you latency is just the sum of yours soundcards(in my case, 3ms on each machine=6 ms). I believe the DFD in this new update (1.5) works well..Good luck to you,and if u have any more Q; just fire away...Rich

[Edi]

Small point regarding the GIGA issue.

When Rich recommended Chickensystems translator or CDxtract, I think he may have thought you were a PC user. The fact is that although promised upwards of 6 months ago, Chickensystems does not yet offer a MAC version of the GIGA to KONTAKT conversion. As for CDxtract, I did try the demo but it did not work for me and I did not pursue it. In other forums I have seen people express disappointment with this also.

IF GIGA translation is very important to you, Rich and others can offer a fair amount of experience...you could look in the NI KONTAKT forum searching for \"GIGA\" and join the (painful) fun.

By the way, Rich, you said elsewhere that you were trying HALION for this problem. Do you know whether DP accepts HALION as a Plugin or does one need third party VST interpretation, like VST Wrapper?

Ed

[Rich Pell]

Originally posted by Edi:
Small point regarding the GIGA issue.

When Rich recommended Chickensystems translator or CDxtract, I think he may have thought you were a PC user. The fact is that although promised upwards of 6 months ago, Chickensystems does not yet offer a MAC version of the GIGA to KONTAKT conversion. As for CDxtract, I did try the demo but it did not work for me and I did not pursue it. In other forums I have seen people express disappointment with this also.

IF GIGA translation is very important to you, Rich and others can offer a fair amount of experience...you could look in the NI KONTAKT forum searching for \"GIGA\" and join the (painful) fun.

By the way, Rich, you said elsewhere that you were trying HALION for this problem. Do you know whether DP accepts HALION as a Plugin or does one need third party VST interpretation, like VST Wrapper?

Ed <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Ohh yea,, good points about the Mac issue Edi. Not sure about halion and DP though(I using SX2 right now) . I know its OSX comp. only though(not OS9). U might wanna pose this Q: on the Halion forum at Cubase.net. ALso, Not Dudley Simpson reports thay CDXtract is trans. his Giga files nicley. Halion is doing a great job i must admit with giga ,but most of my sampling is still done in Kontakt..Best, Rich

[DID]

Hi Joris,

As I said in another topic, take care of the actual version of Kontakt : in case of using it in standolone, it\'s impossible to use it with multi outputs (mac&pc).
Did.

[Rich Pell]

Originally posted by DID:
Hi Joris,

As I said in another topic, take care of the actual version of Kontakt : in case of using it in standolone, it\'s impossible to use it with multi outputs (mac&pc).
Did. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Yor must be talking about the multiple out bug in Logic,right? This is a known bug and NI`s probably planning a fix in the next update. They work fine in SX2 BTW images/icons/grin.gif Best, Rich

[DID]

Hi Rich,
I also have the problem with logic, but here, I\'m speaking about the standalone mode (in pc or mac) : you can\'t get more than 6 outputs (mono, stereo); Morover, when you configure those outputs in the routing, it crahes.
Did

[vash]

I am thinking of setting up a set up with two pcs. Why would someone want to go with Vstack over fxteleport, or vice versa? images/icons/confused.gif

Thanks.

[Max Head]

FX Teleport over Vstack:
Number one reason is that you don\'t need audio card on other computer (actually a good card if you want stable signal over SPDIF). I aslo heard that Vstack is buggy in its current state. FX Teleport is easy to configure and you can build a large network with no problem. I think that pretty soon, this guy will implement DX support as well as GigaStudio support ( http://www.fx-max.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=d7a61ec98946f40ef18e8c140c5448db (\"http://www.fx-max.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=6&sid=d7a61ec98946f40ef18e8c140c5448db\") ). 1host+1server version of FXT costs $79, so you save total about $500 choosing FXT.
FXT is genious tool IMO.
Good luck.

[Hildog]

Is anyone out there using Chainer as a VST host with FX Teleport ? I can\'t think of any reason why this wouldn\'t work, or why FXT would need to be hosted by an actual sequencer/daw app, but I was just wondering if anyone\'s actually doing this yet and, if so, how it\'s working.

[J. Whaley]

I\'ve heard some rumors buzzing that a mac version of FX teleport (or something similar) is coming soon - possibly as early as January NAMM. I\'m hoping!!! Also there\'s a good chance Tascam\'s actually going to release something about giga 3 in January. I think it\'s pretty clear from the users on this forum that their future fate will be sealed (at least in the minds of many users) if they don\'t release an update. Also there\'s buzz from guys here who are in \"the know\" that Tascam is going to announce soon. I have no idea what they\'ll release but I won\'t be surprised if they do implement a VST version of Giga.

So, let\'s put all this potential (speculation of course) in perspective:

Mac users get FX teleport. We implement FX teleport on windows for our sampling machine, and if everything\'s VST compatible it COULD potentially mean we could run Kontakt AND Giga on the same machine, while monitoring through our Mac!! This could be good:

I feel like everyone else about the short comings of Giga, but at times I do like it and if I just use it as a sample player, it will function just fine and I won\'t have to convert my tons of gigs of Giga samples into Kontakt - while at the same time we can run Kontakt. i\'d like all this. images/icons/smile.gif

J-

[TJ]

I\'m interested in running Kontakt on a seperate machine. Would FX teleport be able to handle two or three instances over a standard 10/100 connection into the DAW?. I gather that it can cope with about 8 mono tracks which would seem to suggest it could handle at least four instances, or am I way off the mark?!.

[Max Head]

First of all, you can use modern 1000mbps LAN cards (especially usfull for streaming audio). You can also use TCP/IP over Firewire (400mbps), its slower, but prefferable for processing (becouse of latency). Check the FXTeleport forum. All info is there.

[Max Head]

I don\'t think that Kontakt and GS alternate each other somehow. Even after GS3 release there still will be pros and cons for both. And i think the best choise it to have both.

[TJ]

Thanks for the help Max. I\'m going to try it out in various combinations to see which suits.