2nd try To TASCAM: Will there ever be a solution to msg32 errors and blue screens? [Archive]

seclusion

02-12-2002, 05:43 PM

I understand your frustration..
My Msg32 error was mostly apparent trying to run giga and logic on the same machine.
Once I separated them I didn\'t see that message on 98se or Xp.. I believe that error message is essentially the driver that gives us that very low latency... It is enabled when windows boots. The easiest test of this is.. Both my systems run a Motu 2408 Pci card. They are Gsif, and Asio complient.
If I ctrl-alt-del on both systems. I can see Logic and the Asio driver in the task manager.. I can shut both of them down and reboot the programs right away..
In the giga system I can see giga and the dredded Msg32.exe. I can shut down the giga.exe but not the Msg32...
At this point the audio card will always need to be rebooted from scratch.
I even tried a quick restart with the shift button down.. This does not restart the audio card for giga.
I guess it\'s the price we gotta pay for that near nil latency.
I know all puters crash at one time or another. Before I realized a couple of plugs weren\'t Xp compadible, Logic crashed.
So I clicked on the logic.exe again after and away it went.
It would be nice that if/when Giga crashed we could just restart the program and not reboot. That\'s the real piss off, is waiting for windows to reboot.
Brian

[This message has been edited by seclusion (edited 02-12-2002).]

RealJethro

02-12-2002, 11:20 PM

WIP,

They\'re well aware of the problem, or at least they should be -- from all of my emails and calls (most of which have gone unacknowledged/ignored, I may add). In the past, when I did receive a response, their reply was something to the effect of \"check out these third-party websites about stuff to configure your hardware and stuff.\" That\'s an evasion, not an answer.

GS is a wonderful thing when it works, but it\'s extremely unstable and thus, poorly coded -- this is not acceptable for a professionally-oriented piece of software. My sincerest hope is that now that they\'re under the Tascam banner, and with Win2000 & XP versions, they\'ll finally get their crap together.

BTW, ever seen this error while trying to load a .gsp file:

\"An error occured whilst trying to load the file. [ok]\"

What the @#?! kind of message is that???

ARE YOU LISTENING GIGASTUDIO/TASCAM???!!! GET GS STABLE!!!

Stig

02-13-2002, 09:55 AM

Check your systems! I\'ve had my three GS systems running for many months with no crashes at all.

gabriels

02-13-2002, 12:42 PM

Many software developers publish a list of hardware configurations which have been confirmed to work with their software. GS does this for sound cards but not for the computer itself.
I\'d probably feel ok about buying another computer to run GS if I knew what to buy, but word of mouth really doesn\'t cut it here. I can imagine buying another system on the recommendation of people on this forum, but finding that even that system crashes, since no-one seems to know why the problems occur.
Are there really only a few people who have had problems of this kind? Maybe a lot of people just buy libraries and never edit the instruments (which is where I run into problems with crashes)...or maybe only 20 copies of GS have ever been sold... or maybe no-one wants to complain, and just make do, or maybe there are only a few GS owners on this forum and the majority of GS owners haven\'t found their way here yet.

RealJethro

02-13-2002, 03:11 PM

>gabriels wrote: \"Many software developers publish a list of hardware configurations which have been confirmed to work with their software. GS does this for sound cards but not for the computer itself.\"

Nemesys did (does?) have a minimum/ideal system configuration somewhere on their website, in addition to the compatibility chart for audio hardware. What gets me is that when I built my Giga computer, I was *very* careful to meet all of their requirements -- yet what I got was crashtropolis. Nemesys says \"maybe it\'s your motherboard,\" so I fork out another $350 for a new motherboard, and lo and behold, no difference -- CRASH. \"Maybe it\'s your memory\" $225 on new memory (this was last year) -- CRASH.

I understand that some people report no crashes, and maybe this is because some of us are a bit more demanding on our systems than others. But nevertheless, if Gigastudio 160 is advertised to mean you get 160 voices, then that\'s what I expect -- without crashing.

My IT friends just shake their heads when they\'ve tried to troubleshoot GS -- everything is configured properly and should work, but doesn\'t. They leave basically saying the same thing: \"Poorly coded software.\"

Come on Tascam, let\'s get GS working as advertised.

Buzzo

02-13-2002, 05:57 PM

RealJethro,

Come on dude. GS is stable and working for the majority of users on multiple operating systems with a wide variety of hardware/software. The people that post here and on the Tascam BBS usually have problems, and those problems more often than not get resolved. Those that have stable systems are spending their time making music instead of boo-hooing on a BBS.

You have chosen to make music with a PC. This sometimes requires special consideration and a little patience. If you don\'t have the patience to properly troubleshoot your music box then hire a band or an orchestra to play your music. This software is successfully used by every single major Hollywood composer. Every time you watch TV you are likely hearing a GigaStudio rig sometime along the way.

So, find out what the problem with your system and fix it. Stop blaming a piece of software for screwing up your musical career. It\'s obvious to the casual observer that this **** works.

Peace,

The Buzzo

WIP

02-13-2002, 10:44 PM

Buzzo wrote: So, find out what the problem with your system and fix it. Stop blaming a piece of software for screwing up your musical career. It\'s obvious to the casual observer that this **** works.

Peace,

EXCUSE ME. How can we find out what the problem is? And you obviously do not have these errors, otherwise you would not write what you\'ve written. I accept that GS works perfectly on other machines. But stop blaming the ones on whose systems it does not work as it should. There is something more to it than people not taking care for their system.
Have you ever used several edited instruments (with 8 modulation/dimension splits each)? I did. Not talking about 160 voices here. After stopping the wave capture I get an msg32 error. Everytime. I even tried to capture only two instruments only(Bass & Cello): msg32.
Other songs can be captured without crash. What\'s that?
I really have an ASUS A7V133 and 512MB Infineon RAM. A dedicated 40GB audio HD. What else could be the problem here?
Give me some hints, Buzzo. There are too many people here complaining about errors. One can\'t say it\'s just a marginal thing or all these do not know how to configure a system for audio.

WIP

WIP

02-13-2002, 11:02 PM

That is exactly the problem! A lot users have no problems with GS. But another lot have! We\'re not talking about some marginal error occuring seldom. And the question is Why are some systems more threatened than others?
No answer so far, right? It\'s not done with \"Check your systems!\" or \"Ask third party-pages for help\". Concrete help would be nice.

KingIdiot

02-13-2002, 11:05 PM

I have nearly the same configuration as you WIP and dont crash often. Yes I do crash when I\'ve left the computer on for a few days or, if I\'ve been opening and closing alot of apps.

The editor can be finnicky if I load up Huge Gigs or multiple combinations of gigs with lots and lots of instruments.

I think that Giga. The thing with Pcs is that each part is and can be pretty tempermental and is effected moreso by another tempermental part on top of being affected by heat, etc...

Its way too hard to catch everydetail that could be causing the problem. In fact My dogs fur and dander and open case could be a determining factor in why I have such a great running system.... or I might have really good Karma that I could have jsut ruined by typing that http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

RealJethro

02-13-2002, 11:11 PM

Sorry Buzzo,

Saying that the majority of users are using GS without problem is just dandy -- if you\'re in the majority. But as I glance over the GS features webpage, I fail to see any mention that a functional GS is reserved only for \"the majority.\" I paid for my copy of GS -- did you? I put together a system based on Nemesys\' specs (actually far superior to the recommended specs) -- did you? Quite frankly, I resent the suggestion that I haven\'t the patience to properly troubleshoot a music-oriented computer. You haven\'t the SLIGHTEST clue as to the steps I\'ve taken and the costs I have incurred to try to get this thing working. You don\'t know the NUMBER of experts (MS certifications out the wazoo, music-pc specialists, etc.) that have taken a stab at this box, starting off with a \"This\'ll be easy\" and ending up walking away (sometimes days later) befuddled mumbling, \"I dunno what\'s wrong. Everything \'should\' work.\" Maybe you can explain the MSG32 crash on a box that has nothing on it but Win98SE, WaMi Rack and GS -- come on, let\'s hear it Buzzo.

And tell you what, Buzzo, you can bitch at my posts all you want if you reimburse me all the funds I spent attempting to get GS to work properly. Tell me where to send you the invoice for $825. Meanwhile, come on over to my studio, fix my GS box and get it working with the way I use MIDI -- betcha can\'t do it without a software rev.

BTW, in the future, please refrain from grand proclamations about GS\'s impact on my musical career -- you have no idea who I am, how \'big\' I am or how much of my music you have heard on national tv. It\'s obvious to any visitor to my studio that this **** needs some work.

In the meantime Tascam, let\'s get GS running stably, starting the with MSG32 issue.

WIP

02-14-2002, 12:47 AM

RealJethro,

Well. You\'ve found the right words.
What can you do when it still doesn\'t work although you configured the system as recommended and lots of experts can\'t help.
TASCAM, the msg32 is not a phantom!

WIP

Jamieh

02-14-2002, 01:07 AM

I think one key thing for keeping GS stable is to run it on a dedicated system with no extraneous hardware or software installed. You can do this by getting software like Partition Magic that lets you set up multiple boots on your system. I have a boot for Gigastudio that is Simply Win98SE, Gigastudio, and Cakewalk. That\'s it--nothing else. I have Win98SE configured specifically for Giga, meaning no HD caching, all extra hardware turned off, etc. And for the most part things run stable (though I have occasional lock ups after long periods of use and I have to use the instrument load unload reload trick to get rid of clicking and popping.)

Apologies if this doesn\'t apply to anyone having problems, but if you are, try getting partition magic and creating a totally clean system for you Gigastudio setup.

[This message has been edited by Jamieh (edited 02-14-2002).]

WIP

02-14-2002, 02:27 AM

Well, I have a dual boot system.
One for audio and one for...
The audio one has only Win98SE, GS, logic and a little bit utility to mount SCSI, to make backups and that\'s it.

I suspect that the problem is the fat instruments with 8 dimensions (violin with sustained, pizzicato, tremolo...)

Anyone who has a system that does not crash: do you use instruments with a lot of dimensions and articulations?

On the other hand GS would be useless, if I can\'t use such instruments, because that\'s actually what it\'s for, right?

WIP

Jamieh

02-14-2002, 12:24 PM

WIP, I use tons of instruments that have multiple articulations. I don\'t think that has anything to do with the problem. I suspect it is something about your system that GigaStudio is conflicting with.

Haydn

02-14-2002, 04:40 PM

I also use many large instruments and routinely fill my memory up to 80-85%. I\'m using the biggest libraries such as GOS, DDSW, etc. with the full blown instruments. The only crashes I get is when I hit about 85% memory usage - this is when I get the MSG32 error. I never get the error if memory is loaded under 80%.

I have 2 hardware profiles setup - one with everything activated for everyday use and the other with everything disabled except for what is essential to making music. The music hardware profile has USB, SCSI and anything else not needed disabled. I have not gone through and performed many tweaks to the system except disabling the hardware. I get 96 voices on GigaStudio 96 at all times without pops and clicks and can also get 6 stereo audio tracks in Cakewalk at the same time. The system is a PIII-733, 512 MB RAM, Maxtor 7200 RPM drives, Echo Darla 24 soundcard.

Mark_Knecht

02-14-2002, 05:18 PM

WIP,
OK, this begs the question \"Have you reformatted, done a completely clean install of Windows, loaded ONLY GSt, and then shown that the system crashes with a BSOD?\"

The problem you\'re dealing with here is one equation with 5 unknowns. You can\'t
solve it the way you\'re approaching it. It\'s mathematically impossible!

If the machine config above is stable, then it\'s most likely an interaction with one of the other programs, or some other thing that go downloaded somewhere.

If the machine configuration above isn\'t stable, then you look at the two potential causes: GSt or the machine itself. On the machine side, since lots of people see the problem, it\'s more likely to be a common configuration change that people make and not your specific hardware, or somethign in common like the amount of memory people who fail are running, or whatever.

I can\'t help you \'directly\' because I do not suffer the problem. I can say, however, that I have LOTS of other stuff loaded on my Giga box, but I actually have NONE of the stuff you quote. Even with all of that stuff loaded, I\'ve never crashed with a BSOD.

To me, it sounds like a system file changed by some other software load, but I\'ll leave you to go devise the experiment that figures out what it really is.

Take care, and good luck,
Mark

(And to specifically answer your question, no, I do not run \'fat\' instruments. Yet. Tell me which ones you suspect? Maybe I\'ll go buy one.)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by WIP:
Well, I have a dual boot system.
One for audio and one for...
The audio one has only Win98SE, GS, logic and a little bit utility to mount SCSI, to make backups and that\'s it.

I suspect that the problem is the fat instruments with 8 dimensions (violin with sustained, pizzicato, tremolo...)

Anyone who has a system that does not crash: do you use instruments with a lot of dimensions and articulations?

On the other hand GS would be useless, if I can\'t use such instruments, because that\'s actually what it\'s for, right?

WIP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[This message has been edited by Mark_Knecht (edited 02-14-2002).]

KingIdiot

02-14-2002, 05:46 PM

GOS, DDSB, and QLB and AO, and all sorts of libraries with huge dimensions etc.

In fact most people complain that its isntruments with long sustains, release triggers and dimension layers that give them the most problems.

I think that one usually can be solved with a FAST drive, and a good motherboard. Or even better two drives with and loading instruments form the different drives.

The cras problem that most people have more than likely seem to be \"tempermental\" PCs IMO. If one person with an ASUS A7v and an Athlon 1 g which uses the ahem \"dreaded\" KTVIA chipset has a problem and the other doesn\'t. and the settings are correct I dont think its the software thats the problem.

i\'m not saying that we have the same set up. Its jsut that I wouldn\'t be so quick to blame the software and nowhere near as quick to blame Tascam/Nemesys for not posting \"good systems\". I\'ve seen too many conflicting reports on different systems for me to even think that there really is a perfect system for everyone.

------------------
Really...I am an Idiot

Jamieh

02-14-2002, 06:48 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The only crashes I get is when I hit about 85% memory usage - this is when I get the MSG32 error. I never get the error if memory is loaded under 80%.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is a good point--I also try to keep my memory below 85% or so. When I go above this level, I do get crashes. I can\'t remember if it is the MSG32.DLL problem or not.

WIP

02-14-2002, 11:40 PM

I crash when have 48% memory usage. I bought another 256 MB to have 512 MB because I thought it\'s the high memory usage. But it didn\'t help.
RealJethro reported from experts who said that It should work and they desperately had to leave his system crashing.
I really don\'t know what it is or what it could be.
Today I\'ll do another clean install of my audio partition. Win98SE, GS and logic. No utilities/additional plugins. And then I\'ll see if the error occurs.

WIP

WIP

02-15-2002, 06:27 AM

OK. I give up.
I did a completely new install. WIN98SE, drivers, GS and logic. Even the latest BIOS for my ASUS A7V133. It was all a waste of time.

WIP

Mark_Knecht

02-15-2002, 08:12 AM

WIP,
I hope it\'s not a waste of time but actually a first step towards getting this workign correctly.

Would you please list the cards you have in your system by slot number, and the IRQ settings you are using right now? Also, please state what sort of hard drive configuration you have.

AGP -
PCI1 -
PCI2 -
PCI3 -
PCI4 -
PCI5 -

Thanks,
Mark

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by WIP:
OK. I give up.
I did a completely new install. WIN98SE, drivers, GS and logic. Even the latest BIOS for my ASUS A7V133. It was all a waste of time.

WIP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

RealJethro

02-15-2002, 08:38 AM

I usually experience the MSG32 crash when:

1. GS memory is almost full -- 95%+ (out of 512MB)

2. Polyphony usage jumps from relatively low (about 40 voices) to high (maybe 120+ voices.)

3. GS is loaded with mostly \'fat\' instruments -- Sedlecek Advanced Orchestra usually.

I have tried completely wiping the hard drive and reinstalling everything 3 times (or is it 4..?) now, tried both WinME and 98SE, two different motherboard/chipsets, two different types of memory, different disk drive configs (multiple independent drives vs. RAID), reinstalling the WaMi Rack drivers several times, updating the BIOS, and all of this on a system with nothing but the OS, WaMi and GS onboard.

I can pretty reliably reproduce the crash, too -- if circumstances 1 - 3 above are in play, bluescreen is on its way (hey, that rhymes).

Also, my initial crash \'n\' burn experience with WinME inspired me to do a \'creative reinterpretation\' of the startup sound:
http://www.kochproductions.com/download/RealMEStartupSound.mp3 (\"http://www.kochproductions.com/download/RealMEStartupSound.mp3\")

02-15-2002, 09:56 AM

Hey guys. Robert Kral posted this message on the sample libraries dicussion board:

LOOK AT THE LAST PARAGRAPH!!!

Just grabbed this info from the tascam forum site:
CustSer@teac.com says :

\"Here are the changes:

System

This build supports Windows 95/98/ME/2000/Xp

Editor

Added options in the Preferences to control whether region properties
are updated after editing or replacing a sample. Turning these off avoids
the problem of destroying unity note information after an edit.

Reduced \"unmapped region\" messages to a single warning on close
(remembering that unmapped regions aren\'t compatible with the 1.0 engine).

User Interface

Multimonitor support / Window Size & Position preserved between sessions.

Native File (.gig, .wav, ...) Import from CDRom supported.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Bug Fixes:

Loading multiple instruments with the same bank and patch would
would show up in the sample with identical bank/patch. This would
happen with instruments with the \'Drums\' box checked in the editor.

Scarbee\'s J-String bass would pop at the end of some samples if the
notes were held. This was a disk engine issue and has been fixed.

Editor - Fixed \"apply\" problems in the property pages (unity note, crossfade
points)
Editor - Fixed two different glitches dragging in the blue ball window
Editor - Fixed a problem in instruments created by the Combine feature - files were legal to the sampler but could display missing dimensions in the editor.

MSGSRV32 crash at boot up time (Windows 9x/ME only). This was
a system dependent problem that happened more reguarly on faster
systems. In some cases, you could hit the ignore button a couple of
times to get into Windows, other times required a safe mode boot.
v2.5 has fixed this problem.

WIP

02-16-2002, 02:02 AM

My PCI/IRQ config (ASUS A7V133)

AGP Asus 7700 Deluxe IRQ 10
Slot1 empty IRQ 10
Slot2 Ethernet card (not installed on Audio boot) IRQ9
Slot3 Advance 2941U SCSI controller IRQ 11
Slot4 SoundBlaster Live Player (not installed on Audio boot) IRQ 5
Slot5 Hoontech ADSP 24 MKII IRQ 5

Primary Master: 40GB Maxtor 5200 rpm ATA100, incl. dual boot, software and documents
Pr. Sl. 40 GB Maxtor 5200 rpm ATA100, for audio only
Sec. M. Fujitsu 6,4GB
Sec. Sl. DVD Drive

Internal SCSI CD-Writer

The Promise Controller remains unused, because it produced audio drop outs with GS.

I
removed the SB Live from the mainboard.
reduced RAM performance from 2T to 3T CAS latency.
optimized my hard drives
did a clean install (Win98SE, GS and logic only)

It didn\'t help.

Any BIOS Settings I could make?
Any hope?

WIP

SOD213

02-17-2002, 07:01 AM

The Promise controller gave you problems because it shares the IRQ with slot 2. Put the ethernet card in slot 1. (Yes, I know it shares an IRQ with the video crd, it\'s *ok*.) Leave slot 2 open, even if you don\'t use the Promise controller.

Asus boards are headaches even when they aren\'t broken. http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif

Mark_Knecht

02-17-2002, 07:48 AM

WIP,
Hi. Until yesterday I had never seen this problem. I have now managed to create it, pretty much on demand.

I received a new piano library yesterday that uses more layers than the other one I had. After getting it installed I played with it for quite awhile. No real problems other than I was hearing a pop now and again. I\'d never had that problem with my previous piano libraryand went looking for the problem. It seems to happen when I hit a note that apparently isn\'t in cache somewhere.

In looking for the source of the pop, at one point I was just basically laying my hands on the keyboard to play lots of notes at the same time. Bingo. MSG32 kills WSTREAM message and time for a reboot. I was at 49% memory usage and approachign 64 voice in Port 1. CPU usage is low when it happens.

Now, this machine is an older Dell 500MHz P3 with only a single drive. I\'m going to pop a second hard drive in it for samples, along with a spare ATA-100 controller that I have here, and see if things get better.

Still, a previous post said this is fixed in 2.5. Have you tried that?

Cheers,
Mark

Simon Ravn

02-17-2002, 01:26 PM

Mark, it is not fixed in V2.5 - only the MSG32.exe error you could sometimes get when the process was started at Windows bootup time is apparently fixed. But the real problem, GS freaking out when you start maxing it out, is still there...

Mark_Knecht

02-17-2002, 03:44 PM

Oh, sorry for my confusion on this difference.

I\'ve managed to crash GSt today in another way, leaving me with a BSOD and a message about VMM.

Not at all happy...

Thanks for clering that up Simon!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Simon Ravn:
Mark, it is not fixed in V2.5 - only the MSG32.exe error you could sometimes get when the process was started at Windows bootup time is apparently fixed. But the real problem, GS freaking out when you start maxing it out, is still there...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mark_Knecht

02-17-2002, 05:15 PM

WIP,
No difference at all with a second drive. It seems to be based on only polyphony and the library...

I put in a 1394 adapter card and then used one of my drives. I put the Trachtman piano library on both drives and then played one or the other based on a MIDI channel selection. Either drive gave me the same results with the same library.

If I switch to my single layer East/West piano library, I can\'t crash it.

I also tried changing the way Windows manages memory. I had either a fixed sized virtual memory file, or letting Windows do it. Same results again.

You can sort of hear it failing before it actually pops up the message. You\'ll start to hear little clicks and pops, and on my system, I\'ll hear what sounds like a bunch of old notes getting replayed, but the volume is lower and lower, like it\'s being effected by the original volume envelope. If I play more notes during this time, it crashes. If I let the notes I\'m hearing fade away, then no problem as far as I can tell.

The problem also seems worse pedal down. I presume because it\'s easier to get high polyphony.

Mark

RealJethro

02-17-2002, 10:23 PM

Mark wrote:
\"You can sort of hear it failing before it actually pops up the message. You\'ll start to hear little clicks and pops, and on my system, I\'ll hear what sounds like a bunch of old notes getting replayed, but the volume is lower and lower, like it\'s being effected by the original volume envelope. If I play more notes during this time, it crashes. If I let the notes I\'m hearing fade away, then no problem as far as I can tell.\"

YES! This is very close to what I see and hear before the crash -- usually a bunch of garbage notes gets spat out, at which point if I stop sending GS midi right when this starts, it won\'t crash; but if I let it continue, crash. The garbage notes sound kind of like GS is trying to play the wrong sample set in libraries such as PS Adv Orch, and the weird notes sort of \"pop on and off\" -- it sounds similar to when you play through a sampler\'s entire set of ROM sounds from beginning to end. I could post an .mp3 of one of this crashes if anyone would think it helpful..?

WIP

02-17-2002, 11:18 PM

SOD213,

I can\'t use Slot1, because it would prevent fresh air from getting to my video card.
As the drive with the .gig-files was used with the promise controller the problem with GS was not crashing but drop outs. Furthermore Promise Controller is deavtivated in the BIOS. Perhaps I\'ll remove the ethernet card completely.

WIP

WIP

02-17-2002, 11:27 PM

Mark_Knecht,

That the error still occurs doesn\'t surprise me. I think it\'s nothing with hard drive performance. I guess it\'s a memory-handling-thing.
This sound you and RealJethro were talking about: I can reproduce it as well but GS doesn\'t crash then. Play an instrument and during that load another into the same MIDIchannel and there is that sound. What is more strange: I seldom get that sound without doing this, but just by playing normally an instrument. But that\' realy seldom.
I can reproduce an msg32 crash by trying to capture to wave a certain song. It has 18 MIDI channels used. When the sequencer stops the crash is there - always. The captured wave file exists but is incomplete and unreadable. I can\'t get that song to disk.
I\'ll remove instruments to reecord it in parts and then I\'ll bounce them in logic. Isn\'t that c**p?

WIP

WIP

02-17-2002, 11:29 PM

WIP

02-17-2002, 11:30 PM

Sorry for posting twice.

WIP

Mark_Knecht

02-18-2002, 08:29 AM

Hi,
So it\'s pretty clear that we\'re seeing similar symptoms just before failure. The only library I had loaded was the Trachtman piano, and all I hear are piano notes, but they start getting distored and funny sounding. All I was doing was arpegiating on a C chord with two hands really fast with the pedal down, and basically I think I only heard the notes I had actually played.

I don\'t think an mp3 would help much, but I could do that also. I guess WIP tried and can\'t. I presume his ability to record audio is on the same machine. My Pro Tools box is a separate PC, so I could actually record also if someone thought that would help.

WIP - In general I think on many motherboards PCI Slot 1 is a bad slot to use for the reason you raise, and also that it usually shares an interrupt with the AGP video card. Best to find slots that allow your cards to be pretty much on their own as far as interrupts go.

**********

THIS NEXT PART IS A LITTLE LONG AND CONVOLUTED. PLEASE STICK WITH ME AND GIVE IT SOME THOUGHT. (OR SKIP TO THE END FOR MY QUESTION/SUGGESTION)

My understanding of the application architecture in Windows is that all the pieces of hardware, when activated, send messages through a \'stack\' process. A mouse click becomes a message on the stack with coordinates of the mouse, and which button. A keyboard hit becomes a message on the stack with a ASCII code. Etc. Etc. Etc. as the king used to say...

Now, my understanding of the part of Windows that handles these messages is \'MSG32\' and/or \'MSGSVR32\'. (not sure of which, or the spelling on the second. I\'m going to do some reading today...)

Extending this thinking to MIDI, it\'s likely that every MIDI event becomes a message on the stack also. When sequencers play, or keyboard keys are hit, the MIDI Events go into your PC and become a message on the message stack, to be taken off by an audio application like GSt.

I am now going to GUESS that the part of GSt that accepts messages from the stack is WSTREAM32. When messages are waiting, some part of GSt has to accept the message as its own so that Windows knows to delete it from the stack. (Windows itself never really knows what app a mouse click or MIDI event belongs to. At least that\'s my understanding.)

So think about how it works - events happen, become messages on the stack, applications read the stack, if the message is theirs they take it off the stack, if not theirs, they leave it on the stack for other applications to read and remove.

SO MAYBE WE\'RE CONCENTRATING ON THE WRONG END OF THE PROCESS? MAYBE THE PROBLEM ISN\'T GSt TAKING MESSAGES OFF THE STACK. MAYBE IT\'S HOW THEY ARE PUT ON THE STACK...

**********

I had one other \'interesting\', but not conclusive thing pop up last night. In another thread someone posted something about their MIDI controller, which was a MidiSport 8X8. I use a MidiSport 2X2, so I was curious what the problems were.

Anyway, it made me wonder...

What if the problem was the way the MIDI events were getting put on the stack? What if the MIDI driver was going haywire and stuffing the message stack with too many events, more than really happened, to the point where GSt just choaked and died?

The idea is appealing to me because we all run the same GSt software, but not everyone has the problem. It is likely that many of us use different MIDI hardware. Now I\'m \'lucky\' (!) in that I have two MIDI options on my machine, the MidiSport 2X2, and the MIDI ports on my soundcard, an Audiophile 2496. So, as an experiment, I switched to my AP2496 ports. I got things working (after a while) and was not able to crash my machine! (Yet!) I\'m still looking into this.

QUESTION - If you are suffering this crash, are you using a USB based MIDI interface, such as the MidiSport line?

QUESTION #2 - If you\'re not suffering, are you not using a USB based MIDI interface?

One difference (right now) is that I\'m back to no more than 64 voices with GSt. I somehow can\'t keep this thing capable of running more than 64 voices. Can someone explain the limitiation to me? What am I setting up wrong on this guy? I\'ve got Polyphony set to 160, transition voices low or high, the buffer set at 4MB. What do I need to do?

Please write back with your ideas.

Take care,
Mark

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by RealJethro:
YES! This is very close to what I see and hear before the crash -- usually a bunch of garbage notes gets spat out, at which point if I stop sending GS midi right when this starts, it won\'t crash; but if I let it continue, crash. The garbage notes sound kind of like GS is trying to play the wrong sample set in libraries such as PS Adv Orch, and the weird notes sort of \"pop on and off\" -- it sounds similar to when you play through a sampler\'s entire set of ROM sounds from beginning to end. I could post an .mp3 of one of this crashes if anyone would think it helpful..?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mark_Knecht

02-18-2002, 12:17 PM

WIP,
It is very strange that our problems seem to be related but different. I think mine is very close to what RealJethro is seeing.

However, GS programmers are not necessarily expected to be here on a private Uer\'s Group. I don\'t expect that, and certainly not on a holiday Monday...

So, in your case, you are doing what? Running a sequncer, maybe with some other MIDI tracks playing, and you\'re playing a keyboard along with it?

Or are you just playing MIDI tracks, driving GSt, and at the instant the song stops, or you stop the sequencer, it crashes?

This certainly could be specific to your setup up, as it would depend not only on GSt, but also on what software you\'re usign for a sequencer. (Assuming one of the two above was actually what you\'re doing.)

However, if you had a MIDI file that caused the problem, may I could import it into my sequencer and see if I get the same problem.

Just an idea.

Take care,
Mark

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by WIP:
Hey,

isn\'t that strange? Customers/users guessing what the failure might be? No programmers of GS in sight here?

My msg32 does not appear when I increase polyphony via MIDI. Mine appears when I stop capturing a certain song. Other times it crashes when I do certain steps in the GSEdit but only with certain instruments. It\'s really strange.

WIP<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[This message has been edited by Mark_Knecht (edited 02-18-2002).]

RealJethro

02-18-2002, 01:53 PM

>QUESTION - If you are suffering this crash, are you using a USB based MIDI interface, such as the MidiSport line?

No -- I\'m using an Ego-Sys Wami Rack for MIDI (as well as audio) -- 4 MIDI in/out, PCI-based.

>QUESTION #2 - If you\'re not suffering[...]

N/A (unfortunately)

thesoundsmith

02-18-2002, 07:21 PM

WIP,

Just following this thread, I noticed that both your drives are 5200 RPM (5400 perhaps?)

I can\'t help but feel this may be a contributing factor. Would it be possible to borrow a 7200 RPM drive from someone and set GS samples (not the program) on it-I hesitate to recommend spending more money until you could verify that it helps...
V2.5 is said to resolve boot problesm (which I have sometimes, but my ancient PII 333 is too slow for this stuff anyway!) but a faster drive speed could help ease the load on GS.

Just a thought.

Dasher

RealJethro

02-18-2002, 10:36 PM

Dasher,

Thanks for the recommendation, but I don\'t that think drive speed has anything to do with this problem. My system uses two 7200 rpm IBM Deskstars in a RAID config (and I\'ve tried it without the RAID, too -- RAID performs much better). MSG32 rears its ugly head anyway.

WIP

02-18-2002, 11:02 PM

Mark_Knecht,

Yes parallel to GS is logic in RAM. I start capturing to wave and when I stop the sequenzer (no matter at what time) GS will bring on it\'s everlasting msg32 - always. No problems with other songs by the way. Only this one but it might be becaue it\'s my first \"larger\" song with 17 MIDI channels of Orchestra samples. And it\'s far under 64 voices. I muted tracks to record without error but it didn\'t help. Perhaps it\'ll help to remove instruments from memory and capture several waves.
HALion might help as well BTW.

No, it\'s not a 5400 RPM thing. Drop outs would be normal then. But there were no drop outs.

WIP

WIP

02-18-2002, 11:33 PM

Hey,

isn\'t that strange? Customers/users guessing what the failure might be? No programmers of GS in sight here?

My msg32 does not appear when I increase polyphony via MIDI. Mine appears when I stop capturing a certain song. Other times it crashes when I do certain steps in the GSEdit but only with certain instruments. It\'s really strange.

WIP

Mark_Knecht

02-19-2002, 03:43 PM

WIP,
Yes, I think we all agree that it isn\'t a disk speed issue.

I guess you have no other way to try recording, where you use a separate PC or something external to the GSt PC? That\'s unfortunate, because while I think we all agree that this is a GSt problem, in your case it would be more difficult to get Tascam to necessarily pay attention. They *could* say the problem is caused by is cased by the sequencer.

However, in the case the RealJethro and I see, there is nothing running on the PC except GSt, so they could only complain about my hardware. Since many of us see the problem, it\'s not a strong position they have.

So back to your original statement - Where are they and why don\'t they fix this? Well, it\'s a hard problem and they don\'t understand how to really fix it, I suppose, they they are hiding...

Bummer....

Mark

[This message has been edited by Mark_Knecht (edited 02-19-2002).]

WIP

02-19-2002, 11:02 PM

OK, Mark,

if they TASCAM are hiding then let\'s use GSEdit to create instruments and HALion to them.

WIP

jsmusicsound

02-19-2002, 11:15 PM

Hey! Just another user chiming in with the same \"msg32\" error. I noticed the recent post about \"stack pages\" and thought I\'d let you all know that sometimes I get a blue screen with the message \"not enough spare stack pages\" when the problem occurs (this is in either 2000 or XP - I\'ve tried them both).

It seems we are getting closer to the solution. Would like to hear from Tascam though! Whenever I send their tech support this problem they send me down a whole bunch of paths I\'ve already travelled...

JOHN

Simon Ravn

02-20-2002, 02:26 PM

I never saw the \'stack page\' error. MSG32 always crashes with some WSTREAM related error. If you have stack page problems, you can increase your number of stack pages. Do a search on Google or something to find out how.

ninriggs

02-20-2002, 02:56 PM

Here is a nuts answer for you....

I have gigastudio running on millenium, an asus a7a133 mainboard duron 1gig, 512 cas2 ram, Ibm deskstar 41 gig drive... sw1000xg card with giga drivers....

Crashing with errors very similar to what you guys are getting...

I then upgraded to windows XP to see if it made a difference.... then uninstalled it as i dont have the xp version of Gs yet.

System now stable?????

Yup... i really dont see how but the windows installation of xp seems to have made the system stable even though the OS has been uninstalled back to windows millenium

jsmusicsound

02-20-2002, 06:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Simon Ravn:
I never saw the \'stack page\' error. MSG32 always crashes with some WSTREAM related error. If you have stack page problems, you can increase your number of stack pages. Do a search on Google or something to find out how.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The stack page error comes AFTER the MSG32 or Conexant wavestream error. Could all of this be related? I have not found any way to solve this in W2K - all of the solutions are for the W95 - ME group.

JOHN

Simon Ravn

02-20-2002, 06:38 PM

Speaking of GS errors. Do you ever boot up your computer just to find out that GS doesnt receive any MIDI, and the only way to get MIDI working is to boot one more time? I get this from time to time... I am using GS on a separate machine, and it has happened to me on 3 different motherboards, 4 different MIDI interfaces, 3 different CPU\'s and 2 different OS\'es - so I dare to believe it is a bug in GS...

Haydn

02-20-2002, 09:44 PM

Try this link to raise the stack setting higher: http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q149/0/83.asp (\"http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q149/0/83.asp\")

I raised mine to 8 and have only had the once since I raised it since last summer.

jsmusicsound

02-21-2002, 09:05 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Haydn:
Try this link to raise the stack setting higher: http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q149/0/83.asp (\"http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q149/0/83.asp\")

I raised mine to 8 and have only had the once since I raised it since last summer.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have seen that link, but is for the win95 through winME O.S.\'s only. I\'m running 2000.

THANKS!!!

JOHN

Alan

02-22-2002, 03:07 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Simon Ravn:
Speaking of GS errors. Do you ever boot up your computer just to find out that GS doesnt receive any MIDI, and the only way to get MIDI working is to boot one more time? it is a bug in GS...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I got the same exact thing when I tried to use WDM drivers in 98se with M-Audio,and my brother got the same thing with his Frontier,Dissapearing midi.In case your confused I\'m using Giga on a seperate card(w/MME on 98se)but with the midi on my main card(M-Audio).I think perhaps it\'s a midi driver/WDM thing with some cards.

Metallian

03-19-2002, 03:49 PM

Hello guys
i have the same problem that you with MSG32 error

AppName : msg32.exe AppVer 7.5.0.28 ModName : NTDLL.DLL
ModVer : 2.1.2600.0 Offset : 0002f570

here\'s my experience
Intel I815EEA2 Motherboard (LAN,SOUND, GRAPHIC)
512MB RAM (same type same brand 2x256)
Seagate 20GB for appz
Ibm DTLA 603060 for samples
elsa gladiac 511 graphic card
RME DIGIFACE

only 2 Pci slots taken
one for the RME HDSP CARD
one for the elsa graphic card

i formatted both HD
installed XP
installed GIGA 2.50.48
that\'s all !
load samples
playing about 2 mn
MSG 32 crash

that happens every 2 or 3 mn when memory usage > 50%, after 5-10mn when loaded < 10%
it\'s total random and only happens when playing but more often when using sustain and getting high polyphony

i didn\'t have that problem at all on the same system with my WAMIRACK 24 card. Only appears with RME, that\'s why i think it could be their drivers

i\'ll try to reinstall 98SE and see if i have the same problem

runamuck

03-19-2002, 10:40 PM

Misery loves company which is what drew me to read this entire post just now. And by the way: I know 2 big time composers in LA who both use loads of GStudios for their work and who are both constantly complaining about constant problems with stability. These are guys who are both very computer savvy and who also employ tech people as well. And of course the computers they use are entirely GS dedicated and top of the line optimised. So we little guys aren\'t the only ones.

pantonality

03-20-2002, 01:43 PM

The question was asked,

QUESTION - If you are suffering this crash, are you using a USB based MIDI interface, such as the MidiSport line?

QUESTION #2 - If you\'re not suffering, are you not using a USB based MIDI interface?

I am fortunately not suffering. I am using a Midisport 8x8, but I\'m using the serial connection not the USB. It works just fine.

Steve http://www.mp3.com/stevechandler (\"http://www.mp3.com/stevechandler\")
aka Ettienne http://www.mp3.com/ettienne (\"http://www.mp3.com/ettienne\")

Metallian

03-20-2002, 01:47 PM

i use midi inputs of my digiface
it\'s not USB
it\'s some kind of proprietary firewire
and i encounter the problem

i\'m just reinstalling win98SE
i\'ll tell you if i get the same error again

richardo

03-20-2002, 03:06 PM

Hey WIP,

I also use Giga160 with Logic Audio on 98SE. I never get the msg32 error. In fact, I\'ve found that Giga works really well on its own. HOWEVER, Giga does freak out really hard when I start sequencing with Logic on the same machine. This is particularly so when I start pushing the polyphony above 60, and I find that my MIDI starts freezing up on me, sometimes to the point of BSOD. I tried using Giga with Cubase, and had similar results. Then I tried sequencing with Master Tracks Pro, and got entirely different results. It didn\'t freeze it up like it did with Logic, but certain commands would result in the dreaded BSOD.

From your description, it sounds like you\'re running Logic and Giga concurrently on the same machine, but you\'re having more problems with your system than I am, even though you\'re running it on a much more powerful machine than mine is. Do your problems happen only while running Logic\'s sequencer?

Have you considered the possibility that your installation CD may be defective, and have contacted Tascam to return it for a non-defective product? If I was as frustrated as you sound like you are, I would be doing just that.......

I can only conclude for my own use of this software that I need to sink more $$ into upgrading my system, and I *hope* that things will run smoothly with the two applications. From everything I\'ve read about how Tascam recommends Giga to be used, Giga is designed to run optimally as a \"stand-alone\" sampler with no other software running except the OS. If so, then my experience of Giga is that it does what it is designed to do. I do hope, however, that, as computer technology increases, Tascam will change that viewpoint and engineer Giga to work seamlessly within a sequencer on one machine - like Halion does with Cubase or Logic. If they want to remain competitive, they\'re going to have to do this anyway.
My 2 cents.

Metallian

03-23-2002, 05:24 AM

i solved my MSG32 error
i just plugged my midex 8 in the PC and i only use its midi inputs.
as soon as i enable and use RME DIGIFICE Midi input, it crashes in the 2 following minutes.
it\'s a RME driver issue...

Chadwick

03-23-2002, 06:40 AM

Someone from Tascam recently stated that they treat the Tascam BBS as a customer support area, and that they track every reported problem.

Perhaps this thread should migrate its way over to the TAscam BBS to receive more immediate attention from the lads there.

MSG32 error.

I hardly ever get it, but for the last few days I\'ve had an arrangement running with sustained acoustic and electric piano parts as well as a ****load of other stuff. The polyphony goes up around 150. When it gets near 140 I start to hear pops, then odd burps of notes, and if I continue to let the seqeunce run, I\'ll occasionally get the MSG32 error Simon refers to. I think it\'s simply the problem of maxing Giga/cpu out for too long a period.

I can run low polyphony parts all day without a hitch.

My interface is a serial Unitor II.

BTW Simon, I\'m having a great problem at the moment. The machine may run for hours without a glitch, then I\'ll find that I have to do a hardware reset every 10 minutes or so because Giga stops responding to midi http://www.northernsounds.com/ubb/NonCGI/images/icons/smile.gif