Big Band Records. What Do You Recommend? [Archive]

Looper

07-23-2004, 01:41 PM

Joseph Burrell

07-23-2004, 03:48 PM

Well as a videogame soundtrack fan I picked up a great big band/jazz album called Mario & Zelda Big Band Live at Nihon Seinenkan Hall. It is remixes of classic and new Mario and Zelda themes from the games, but I think any big band or jazz fan could appreciate it. Very cool stuff. I was floored by the production quality and the sound. They did some great stuff with this. The band on the album is The Big Band of Rogues. Pick it up if you're interested, I highly recommend it.

Mario & Zelda Big Band Live (http://www.gamemusic.com/dept/101/productdetail.asp?dept=101&cat=10356&itemid=10989)

P1E

07-23-2004, 04:12 PM

Check out:

Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band
http://www.gordongoodwin.com

Two CDs available (see web site)

These guys are freaks of nature (IMO).

DarwinKopp

07-23-2004, 04:45 PM

In anticipation of the upcoming Big Band addon I'd like to get a few Big Band cds to get familiar with the sound. I'm mainly interested in hearing newer instrumental recordings with either a classic or a modern sound.

Please post the name of the artist (band), album, and a short description of the material. Thanks.

Looper

For sheer BB color, I'm very partial to the later Stan Kenton, especially two of his double live albums Live at Redlands University and Live at Bringham Young University, both available now on CD at amazon.

There are tons of BB anthologies out there, which would give you an overview of various things, espcially some of the older stuff. Other classic recordings to look for would include Duke Ellington, Count Basie, arranger Sammy Nestico, Maynard Ferguson, Bob Mintzer, and the GRP All-Stars. It's all good stuff. Again, a quick search on amazon will turn up all of these and from there you can read the playlists and various professional and buyer reviews.

KevinKauai

07-23-2004, 06:05 PM

The Buddy Rich album "Big Swing Face" (at Amazon, detail here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000005H3M/qid=1090623644/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-8303458-7868116 ) can't be beat (imho) for latter-day "big band" bravado! (Say what you will about the late Buddy, he got some incredible arrangments and side-men when he put together this group -- which, I believe, pretty much stayed together until Rich's health problems.)

Of course, the works of Basie, Ellington, Herman et al are wonderful primers in the classic "big band" sound but Rich took it to another whole level. ALSO not to be overlooked for a fresh look at "big band" is Don Ellis (also late).

i hope this helps ... KevinKauai

deadbeat

07-23-2004, 07:27 PM

Looper

07-23-2004, 07:28 PM

Check out:

Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band
http://www.gordongoodwin.com

Two CDs available (see web site)

These guys are freaks of nature (IMO).

Thanks for the suggestions guys. This is the only one I've had a chance to check out so far (gonna check Amazon.com later). There are lots of samples on the website and this stuff sounds incredible.

The DVD is only a little bit more money than the CD, does anybody know if it could be played in a computer's dvd drive?

Thanks again.

dancase

07-23-2004, 07:46 PM

While you're perusing Stan Kenton CD's, be sure to check out Stan Kenton Plays Chicago, an album of the music of Chicago and Blood, Sweat, and Tears -- two bands which Kenton really admired and praised. The arrangements were done by Bob Curnow, and they are wonderful! Another favorite of mine is 7.5 on the Richter Scale. Come to think of it, virtually anything that says "Stan Kenton" is more than worthy of a listen.

Kenton did a Christmas album in the early 60's that is one of the real classics of the season. He was still in his Mellophonium period, and this album has some textures and flavors that are truly unique. The original title was A Merry Christmas , on Captiol Records. It was re-relased in the 70's under the title Kenton's Christmas by Kenton's own record label, Creative World. It's now back on shelves on CD, and should be in the library of any music lover who celebrates Christmas. As a point of interest, the Capitol Bones Big Band released an album last year that features many of the original arrangements from Kenton's Christmas record, as well as a few Kenton alumni. A Stan Kenton Christmas is a wonderful album, though the mix sometimes seems to favor the trombone section a bit too much... but then again, they DO call it the Capitol Bones Big Band. :D

D.

aplanchard

07-23-2004, 07:55 PM

Well, for modern sounding recordings, check out Bob Mintzer's big band stuff as well as Maria Schneider. Count Basie and Duke Ellington certainly represents the mainstream, but for more adventurous stuff check out the Thad Jones-Mel Lewis band, Gil Evans stuff and especially Bob Brookmeyer (really pushed the envelope).

aplanchard

07-23-2004, 08:00 PM

CString

07-23-2004, 08:12 PM

Has anyone written a decent bit of music for big band in the last 50 years? I think not.

Well it's pretty close to 50 years but, Milestones. Then you have Mingus. You definitely can't call that tame or cheesy. Again post 1950. There are also some cuts on both Jaco Pastorius solo recordings that have some interesting additions to standard BB orchestration (post 1975). In addition to everything else everyone has mentioned.

You must not listen to much Jazz past 1950. How you can classify what was done in the 30's and 40's along side the stuff from the 50's forward is beyond me. It is nothing like Dorsey, Ellington, or Basie and their ilk. In college we did some very "modern" arrangements. Nothing resembling 1940. More like Zappa meets Mingus.

???
-Chad

deadbeat

07-23-2004, 08:25 PM

Give me a link to some decent stuff guys. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised. I've always felt a big band is just an orchestra without the strings. Like a brass band or a marching band. Now if your marching up and down you can hardly be expected to carry a cello. But if you're sitting why lose the strings? The strings are the whole point.

dancase

07-23-2004, 09:04 PM

Big bands? (Where is the smiley for revulsion when you need it?! )Big bands are awful surely? Leave it in the 40's. All those cheesy 6ths. ...eeeuch...
It's a dead idiom born out of a stupid attempt to fuse jazz and the symphonic orchestra. Has anyone written a decent bit of music for big band in the last 50 years? I think not.

I was going to just disregard this post as the blatherings of a snooty elitist. For the most part, that's still what I'm going to do, but I just HAD to say this, and get it off my chest.

There is no such thing as a "bad" musical form or style. Music, in its purest context, is a form of artistic self-expression. There is no "good art" or "bad art." There may be music that I don't appreciate, or don't understand, or even just plain don't like. That doesn't make it "bad." I've had the privelege of interacting with a lot of very talented people in my lifetime, and the very best of them have understood this concept. I've also had the chance to interact with a few folks who just didn't get it -- and thought that their art was better than anyone else's, and all other forms were unworthy of consideration. I find that a really sad thing, because their growth was/is stunted by their own choice, and music, like all forms of art, needs constant growth just as a pond needs a constant flow of fresh water to avoid turning stangnant and foul.

Personally, I love Big Band music. I love listening to it, and I love playing it. It has power, it has life, and it has an incredible ability to connect with my inner being. You may not share my passion for Big Band music -- and that's perfectly okay by me... but please grow up and refrain from spewing insults and calling my passion "stupid."

D.

aplanchard

07-23-2004, 09:17 PM

"Give me a link to some decent stuff guys. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised."

Just go to Amazon, search for some of the names referenced above and get busy.

Joseph Burrell

07-23-2004, 10:41 PM

Hey deadbeat (what a name), check my first post, they use all kinds of instruments. I'm not a real big fan of old big band, but this remake of VGM as big band was excellent and modern.

Looper

07-24-2004, 12:09 AM

Pick it up if you're interested, I highly recommend it.

Mario & Zelda Big Band Live (http://www.gamemusic.com/dept/101/productdetail.asp?dept=101&cat=10356&itemid=10989)

I checked this out (no audio samples unfortunately). I guess game soundtracks are only for die-hard game fans, they're more than double the price of regular cds $33-39 each! Maybe the game would be cheaper. :)

Thanks anyway for the recommendation.

csduke

07-24-2004, 08:31 AM

Bob Curnow's L.A. Big Band: Music of Pat Metheny & Lyle Mays

Bob describes his arrangements for this album as what the Stan Kenton Orchestra would sound like today if Stan was alive today. Great performances. These arrangement are also interesting because they show how skillfull Metheny is at writing and connecting phrases in ever changing time signatures. Bob's web site also sells the scores to this music.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000018LY/qid%3D1090675375/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/002-7809626-2935230

deadbeat

07-24-2004, 10:00 AM

No offence intended, but apologies anyway. I didn't mean to belittle anyone's taste. I take it as a matter of basic fact that whenever you say anything about music, all you are doing is expressing an opinion about it, how much you understand it, and how much you like it. I take this for granted so much that I forget people get offended if you say that music they like makes you squirm. So sorry.
It's nice to be called an elitist snob though. I'll have to tell that to the guys in the country band where I mangle clanky solos out of an old telecaster..... ;)

07-24-2004, 10:43 AM

Hasn't any one heard Les Brown?? certainly one of the best bands ever. And not "cheesy" EJ

csduke

07-24-2004, 10:56 AM

Big bands? (Where is the smiley for revulsion when you need it?! )Big bands are awful surely? Leave it in the 40's. All those cheesy 6ths. ...eeeuch...
It's a dead idiom born out of a stupid attempt to fuse jazz and the symphonic orchestra. Has anyone written a decent bit of music for big band in the last 50 years? I think not.

Big Band were never an attempt at a fusion but were a natural progression from the early jazz of Dixieland and 20's ragtime orchestras. Though Big Bands became the popular music of the 40's (which is dangerous for any music - see today's current popular music) there were many less popular band then and since who have expanded the big band into an artform of great depth. Consider Ellington groups of the 40's to Stan Kenton's neophonic orchestras of the late 50's etc, etc. Check out the boppers big bands from Dizzy to Mingus. Consider the variety of feel between a the Basie and Thad Jones/Mel Lewis bands. The Big band is a broad and expressive artform that goes well beyond Glenn Miller and continues today.

BTW, Big Bands are a medium not a style; like a string quartet or a wind ensemble. Big Band music of the mid 40's is a style.

Stan Kenton:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000005H8M/ref=pd_krex_np_t/002-7809626-2935230

sandden1

07-24-2004, 11:40 AM

....I forget people get offended if you say that music they like makes you squirm. So sorry.
It's nice to be called an elitist snob though. I'll have to tell that to the guys in the country band where I mangle clanky solos out of an old telecaster..... ;)

Maybe Don Ellis' big band wouldn't make you squirm. The man pushed the envelope very hard, and died far too young. He even played the 4-5-1 on very rare occasions.

Dennis Burton

seanmccoy

07-24-2004, 11:43 AM

Another innovative big band arranger from the 70's/80's is Toshiko Akiyoshi. I agree with many of the previous recommendations, particularly any of the later recordings of Kenton, Don Ellis, Maynard Ferguson, Thad Jones and Buddy Rich. Their earlier works were fine also, but the fidelity of the later stuff is much better. Unfortunately the vast majority of their albums have not been re-released on CD, so if you really want to get serious you may be buying vinyl.

Also worth checking is Don Sebesky's Giant Box, which is a masterful collection of arrangements that include a lot of "studio orchestra" instrumentation. And one of my favorite "small big bands" of all time, if you can find any of their stuff, was a group called Matrix. John Harmon's arrangements for them were very film-score-like.

Jeff Turner

07-24-2004, 12:32 PM

Maybe Don Ellis' big band wouldn't make you squirm. The man pushed the envelope very hard, and died far too young. He even played the 4-5-1 on very rare occasions.

Dennis Burton

Maybe we can get Tom to program a quarter-tone trumpet too. Anyone remember "Bulgarian Bulge" in 33/16?

Jeff

chagar

07-24-2004, 12:49 PM

I'd suggest the Dave Holland Big Band cd "What Goes Around" .. won the Big Band Grammy award last year (2003?).

Or, the Rob McConnell Boss Brass or Tentet albums.

Or, go to the classic Sammy Nestico site: www.sammynesticomusic.com
He did composed and arranged for Count Basie and many others for years, and had a nomination for Grammy last year for his "This is the Moment" CD.
Many of his big band arrangements are also available at this site.

seanmccoy

07-24-2004, 03:47 PM

Anyone remember "Bulgarian Bulge" in 33/16?Jeff

Of course! With that crazy pianist Milcho Leviev. I cut my teeth on the odd-meter composing of Don Ellis and Hank Levy. Re-learning 4/4 was kind of painful.

deadbeat

07-24-2004, 05:09 PM

So is a big band just an orchestra with no strings, saxes and a decent drum kit? I'm getting curious now....

bmonroney

07-24-2004, 09:53 PM

So is a big band just an orchestra with no strings, saxes and a decent drum kit? I'm getting curious now....

The standard big band instrumentation would be something like 4 or 5 trumpets, 4 or 5 trombones, usually with a bass trombone included, and 5 saxes, bttaa, plus rhythm section (Pno Bs Drms, maybe Gtr) - BUT the medium has been expanded with other colors like french horns (for example Kenton), flutes and other woodwinds like bass clarinet (check out Toshiko Akyoshi), soprano sax, of course all sorts of mutes for the brass sections, flugelhorns, synths and electric guitar (check out later Gil Evans with Hiram Bullock tearing it up) etc. etc.

One of my favorite modern 'big band' recordings is Kenny Wheeler's "Music for Large and Small Ensembles" (ECM) - Absolutely lustrous textures and harmonies, with Kenny's amazingly lyrical melodies. Maria Schneider's use of the big band palette brings to mind Gil Evans but is thouroughly modern and unique.

Brian

Styxx

07-25-2004, 12:28 AM

So is a big band just an orchestra with no strings, saxes and a decent drum kit? I'm getting curious now....
Contrary to popular belief, today a Big band is a about twelve to twenty or so old guys leaving their wives at home while getting drunk on free beer playing a gig at the local bar. :eek:

csduke

07-25-2004, 07:46 AM

Of course! With that crazy pianist Milcho Leviev. I cut my teeth on the odd-meter composing of Don Ellis and Hank Levy. Re-learning 4/4 was kind of painful.
You guys are bringing back some old memories for me. Leviev, Levy, ... I spent my high school summers at Kenton Clinics and got to know hank a little by taking his arranging classes. It's not only his time signatures that are odd ;-) I also listened to Ellis' Tears of Joy album continously during that period. Another band that got a lot of play from me in the early 70's was the albums of Bill Chase. Chase did some nice things with the jazz/rock idiom as Blood Sweat & Tear did before him andn was an impressive trunpet player.

The primary challenge of a jazz sample lib, I would think, is to record as many of the different articulation, different from classical, that jazz musicans use as possible. The tone productions is different as well. A real challenge.

seanmccoy

07-25-2004, 11:00 AM

You guys are bringing back some old memories for me.

Yes, I'm afraid we're bringing new meaning to the term "senior member." BTW, I recently learned that Hank Levy passed away in 2001. Figures he'd go in an odd year.

Jeff Turner

07-25-2004, 12:16 PM

Don Ellis was so creative. Unfortunately for us, he was only able to do a few soundtracks. While watching THE FRENCH CONNECTION, the pivotal point in that movie is when Gene Hackman's character finally finds where the drugs are hidden in the car, under the rocker panel by the doors. In that scene the tool being used to open the rocker panel creates a rhythmic pattern. Ellis took that rhythmic pattern and built his main theme on it. Way cool.

He also told me that he used 9 Contrabasses on that session. The sound of those 9 basses sawing away in unison was incredibly dark.

Only a few of his band's albums have made it to CD so far. Check out "Electric Bath" and his final release, "Live at Montreux".

But most importantly he was a kind, decent individual.
Jeff

sandden1

07-26-2004, 02:45 AM

Of course! With that crazy pianist Milcho Leviev. I cut my teeth on the odd-meter composing of Don Ellis and Hank Levy. Re-learning 4/4 was kind of painful.

After I started listening to Ellis' music, I think that four years passed before I wrote anythng that didn't have a 7 or a 13 in the time signature.

Dennis Burton

mistahamma

07-26-2004, 07:27 AM