Rare Instruments 2 Announced [Archive]

Nick Phoenix

07-24-2004, 03:00 PM

Doug let the cat out of the bag, so here is some RI2 info:

Rare 2 is 10 times as big as Rare 1. I think it's about 20 gigs!! It will be a NI based virtual instrument. It includes everything from Rare 1, but that's only about 10% of the library. We are shooting for a completish (obviously an impossible task) ethnic library with the same or better expressiveness as Rare 1 (drums are minimal, but basically are an extension of the percussion in Stormdrum). Tons of articulations on almost all instruments. It also has better sound quality than Rare 1 and QLegato TM. It was recorded in the world famous Studio B at Ocean Way Recording. The ethnic ensembles are really cool, by the way.

RARE 2 rough list

Far East

Gamelan Ensemble
Shakuhachi 1
Shakuhachi 2
Shamisen
Erhu
Rag Dung
Chinese Gong
Thai Gong
Taikos
Koto
Chinese Flute
Ocarina
Vietnamese Jaw Harp

Africa

Cora
Xylophone
Lute
Djembe Ensemble
Frame Drums
From Tom From
Congas
Bata
Shakers
Ago Ago
Gongs
Bells
Kalimba 1
Kalimba 2

Europe

Uilleann Pipes
Scottish Bagpipes
Bagpipe Ensemble
Hurdy Gurdy
Irish Low Whistle
Hardanger Fiddle
Gadulka
Alpenhorn
Laudennas
Bass Recorder
Recorder

Americas/Australia

1910 Washburn Guitar
Mandolin
Banjo
Pan Pipes
Native American Flute
Didjeridoo Anthology
Ukelele
Dobro
Jaw Harp
Berimbau

Middle East/ Turkish Empire

Duduk 1 from Rare 1
Duduk 2
Duduk 3
Yalli Tambur
Electric Baritone Violin
Mid East String Section
Zourna
Santoor
Fiddle
Ney Flute

India

Tabla Alphabet
Cheesy Tablas from Rare 1
Sitar
Tambura
Esraj
Sarangi
Bansuri
Shehnai

Brian2112

07-24-2004, 03:04 PM

Nick, Your killing my bank account!

Awesome!!! Pipes! Me like Pipes!!!!!:D
That list is making me drool.

07-24-2004, 03:11 PM

Great!!! But this does mean I am buying Rare 1 again... argh..

Ed

A_Sapp

07-24-2004, 03:14 PM

Nick, it looks really cool mate. When I read it'll be a NI instrument, my heart just kind've skipped a beat.

I hope you also make a giga version as virtual instruments aren't practical in everyone's setup. :)

07-24-2004, 03:17 PM

Aha I just read there is an upgrade path for Rare 1 users! ExcellenT!!!

Ed

sirbellog

07-24-2004, 03:22 PM

[QUOTE=Brian2112]Nick, Your killing my bank account!
QUOTE]
Don't worry : that's exactly what I thought in early march, when Hard Core Bass Extended was announced.... And it's still at the pressing plant (it has been there now for at least 2 weeks -so says Doug- ... just for burning... so I presume that as of now it's very likely carbonized).
So, one good advice : make just ONE dollar work for it in your bank from now on, untill R.I 2 actually ships, and I'm sure you'll buy it without pain.
If I had known, I would have done exactly that !

Marcussen

07-24-2004, 03:31 PM

Count me in... I'll be getting this as soon as I can preorder

Daedalus

07-24-2004, 03:53 PM

Beautiful...

I'm gonna have to get a bigger hard drive.

midphase

07-24-2004, 03:57 PM

When I read it'll be a NI instrument, my heart just kind've skipped a beat.

I hope you also make a giga version as virtual instruments aren't practical in everyone's setup

Aaron,

I think you better wake up and smell the coffee, I don't think Nick or East West are much interested or concerned about Giga anymore. I think the whole Kontakt/Kompakt thing has been working really well for them. It has curbed down on piracy concerns, it gives a lot of bang for the buck, it does away with compatibility and conversion issues, in a word it works!

Way back when I was one opposed to the virtual instrument model I thought that this was going to lead to a very cookie-cutter type of sample library with little customization options. In a way, this is quite true, but in a weird way I don't miss it nearly as much as I thought I would....pretty weird huh?

Overall I find it very hard to believe that Nick or Doug will release anything in Giga format from this point on.

His Frogness

07-24-2004, 04:01 PM

OMG!!!!
RI and GOS were my first giga purchases and I remember being so blown away by RI's impeccable recording and editing. I could play that ehru forever. Could you just release that electric baritone violin, like now?

07-24-2004, 04:02 PM

Finally, the ultimate ethnic library! It sounds like someone has finally done it right and not skimped out on us.

Congratulations Nick, I am looking forward to this release!

seanmccoy

07-24-2004, 04:06 PM

It will be a NI based virtual instrument.

I haven't jumped on that bandwagon yet, but I just got Kontakt as part of the NI Komplete 2 set. Will all the Kompakt VI's open in Kontakt with full editing capabilities, as if they were a non-proprietary sample library? If not, what are the limitations?

Neole

07-24-2004, 04:15 PM

A_Sapp

07-24-2004, 05:15 PM

Aaron,

I think you better wake up and smell the coffee, I don't think Nick or East West are much interested or concerned about Giga anymore. I think the whole Kontakt/Kompakt thing has been working really well for them. It has curbed down on piracy concerns, it gives a lot of bang for the buck, it does away with compatibility and conversion issues, in a word it works!

Way back when I was one opposed to the virtual instrument model I thought that this was going to lead to a very cookie-cutter type of sample library with little customization options. In a way, this is quite true, but in a weird way I don't miss it nearly as much as I thought I would....pretty weird huh?

Overall I find it very hard to believe that Nick or Doug will release anything in Giga format from this point on. That's a shame. :)

Nick Phoenix

07-24-2004, 05:26 PM

Forgot the berimbau and congas. I added them to the list.

Nick Phoenix

07-24-2004, 05:28 PM

What exactly is 'Tabla Alphabet' ? Im always on the lookout for good tabla and dhol samples.

btw Why doesnt anyone ever sample dhols? Is there any library with multisampled dhols? I had thought with all the bhangra stuff some people would sample dhols.

Stormdrum has a kohl drum which is like a deluxe dhol. RI2 has all of the sounds of the tabla alphabet played by a tabla master. In other words, it's the real deal.

Jan_Nemecek

07-24-2004, 05:28 PM

What exactly is 'Tabla Alphabet' ? Im always on the lookout for good tabla and dhol samples.

Shouldn't that be tablas with singing/spoken stuff?

Nick Phoenix

07-24-2004, 05:29 PM

I haven't jumped on that bandwagon yet, but I just got Kontakt as part of the NI Komplete 2 set. Will all the Kompakt VI's open in Kontakt with full editing capabilities, as if they were a non-proprietary sample library? If not, what are the limitations?

Yes, with no limitations.

dougrogers

07-24-2004, 09:57 PM

Don't worry : that's exactly what I thought in early march, when Hard Core Bass Extended was announced.... And it's still at the pressing plant (it has been there now for at least 2 weeks -so says Doug- ... just for burning... so I presume that as of now it's very likely carbonized).

Hardcore Bass XP is shipping, here's the link for further information -

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22889

The library has grown from 2 Gigs to 6 Gigs. The upgrade is only $99.95 for an extra 4 Gigs of instruments, all impeccably sampled and programmed by Maestro Phoenix.

The link to order the upgrade is here -

EW-156XP

Now, back to Rare Instruments 2.

- Doug

KingIdiot

07-24-2004, 11:21 PM

uhm

QLegato TM

am I the only one that noticed this?

sullivang

07-24-2004, 11:35 PM

Aaron,

I think you better wake up and smell the coffee, I don't think Nick or East West are much interested or concerned about Giga anymore. I think the whole Kontakt/Kompakt thing has been working really well for them. It has curbed down on piracy concerns, it gives a lot of bang for the buck, it does away with compatibility and conversion issues, in a word it works! (snip...)
I'm sure I'm being daft, but can you please explain in more detail what you mean by this? I take it that the N.I "virtual instrument" model is a technology
which only works in Native Instrument's applications (at the moment)?
If so, it appears to be that it must be usable for a wide variety of sounds, judging by the size of this Rare Instruments 2 library. What's involved in creating a virtual instrument version of a tradionally sampled instrument? Does that involve purchasing a special developer's license from N.I?

Greg.

sullivang

07-25-2004, 02:55 AM

Ah. Never mind - I get it now - I was being daft afterall. A "Virtual Instrument" is merely an instrument which is supplied as a plugin (based on the N.I engine), obviating the need for a sampler. (I was confusing the term "virtual instrument" with
N.I's instrument *modelling* technology). Seems like a good idea, but I hope it's' not *too* expensive to release something in V.I form.

Sorry - I've been hibernating for a few years. I have some catching up to do. ;^)

Greg.

SteveHanlon

07-25-2004, 03:41 AM

would be great if the Tabla "alphabet" could be a second layer of the tabla hits and they correspond directly with the hit. So:

I make my hot super tabla line by banging my midi controller. I can then play that part back but with the flip of the Mod wheel, I can hear the corresponding tabla 'Alphabets'.

Then we can compose one of those Zakir Hussein helicopter-hands solo

Ta din ta kit tu, tirakata gladtomeetya

Then drums come back to play what was just chanted.

Nick, it's nice to see that you embarked on the Complete World Library afterall...

07-25-2004, 10:21 AM

uhm

QLegato TM

am I the only one that noticed this?

Doubt it, but maybe people are too afriad to ask what it is.

Ed

Daedalus

07-25-2004, 10:35 AM

I'm not.

uhm......

What is it?

Marcussen

07-25-2004, 10:38 AM

Likely some Legato capability such as that of VSL...

Hawkes

07-25-2004, 12:38 PM

Wow! RI2 sounds great... and it sounds like it might be above my meager budget :(

The QLegato thing was asked about in the EW forum, and the response was:

QLegato™ will be revealed at the appropriate time.

- Doug

thesoundsmith

07-27-2004, 12:46 PM

I don't think Nick or East West are much interested or concerned about Giga anymore. I think the whole Kontakt/Kompakt thing has been working really well for them. It has curbed down on piracy concerns, it gives a lot of bang for the buck, it does away with compatibility and conversion issues, in a word it works!

For some, it works. For me, it means loading one 'instrument' (RI2, GOS, etc.) and working with it, then having to commit the parts to audio so I can load the next player - instead of 16 'anything goes' instruments per MIDI wire, I have 1 set of 'what's in this lib' per midi wire, a huge difference. This may be great for the vendors, but as a user, it sucks! My sequencer is loaded down with useless overhead from Kontakt, and my VSTi computer is limited to the number of midi ports, rather than 16 times that, and my Giga investment is cut off at the knees - I bought into Giga for the expandability, and that has been considerably slowed by the combination of developer shift from libraries to softsynths, really just glorfied ROMplers, and Tascam's unexcusable tardiness and poor marketing.

I'll undoubtedly buy this lib, especially if all the tabla strokes and bols are represented, but this process has slowed my work throughput considerably, plus removed the creative sample alteration aspect from my purview entirely.

All old hat, I know, but just because it's old news doesn't make it any less relevant. I will NEVER be as satisfied with these instruments as I am with editable, reconfigurable sample libraries - especially when the vendor screws up a loop, as Nick has done on several important (to me) samples in the RI (Prosamples set) and QLB sets.

At least, in Giga, if there is a bad loop, I can edit the sample and fix it (if it's fixable.) In these new soft libs, if I can't access it to fix it, and I can't return the product as defective, can I sue? (Hint: I sure can try - a lawyer friend of mine has told me he thinks there are grounds for a class action suit, regardless of the EULA disclaimers...)

In any case, as I said, I'll have to get it. What's the retail going to be?

brewick

07-27-2004, 01:02 PM

On the flip side of the coin, I have found using the new Kontakt player (with EWQLSO) has increased my workload. With giga, I had to play back the whole track to export it to audio, then apply convolution reverb in Sound Forge. With EWQLSO it eliminates all this for me.

07-27-2004, 01:09 PM

Hi Dasher,

If you own Kontakt, you'll be able to access it to edit it. If I'm not mistaken, you can change the loop points and simply save the .nki file. I believe that loop points are parameters in the .nki (I might be mistaken though). If you don't own Kontakt, have you tried EW's tech support and ask them to fix it for you?

These mentions of class action lawsuits seem so extreme to me everytime I hear threats of one and sometimes it seems that people haven't adequately followed up with the developer to see if they will fix it. (I know that you didn't threaten with one, I'm just talking in general). I'm not saying that you haven't already tried to ask EW to fix it as I don't know what communications you have had. IMHO, even people such as Doug and Nick can make mistakes. That doesn't mean that they don't try to fix them and I'd be surprised if they simply told you that you were on your own and "dems da breaks".

I've found EastWest to be helpful and try to fix problems such as these. Further to that, pretty much every developer I've ever dealt with has been that way with me.

Hope that you're able to get your problems resolved,
FV

dwdonehoo

07-27-2004, 02:11 PM

Here is a suggestion. Make sure there is a Taiko instrument that has (most) all the instruments in one (MIDI Channel) instrument. (Throw in some phrases as well, maybe). I run out of midi channels before I run out of memory, most of the time.

I am doing something with the RI Taiko right now (I will post it later), and I have to say I underestimated its flexibility and power. I just wish I did not have to burn so many MIDI channels. I know, I know, I should get off my butt and combine them into one gig myself, but no time. I wish someone would post an ART file (with instructions :^) that combined all or most of the instruments. Having one midi channel for each drum is a bummer.:(

And don't forget sticks!:eek:

J. Whaley

07-28-2004, 12:12 AM

Any idea on a preliminary release date? I've scanned this whole thing and can't seem to find it.... I wish I could have it next week!!

Nick Phoenix

07-28-2004, 12:59 AM

Thanks for all the suggestions. Q4 release. 4 of us are working on it full time.

esteso

07-28-2004, 01:19 AM

Jamesmcwilliams

07-28-2004, 02:44 AM

That's a shame. :)

It is. Though I wonder if we could always reserve one of our 'spare' giga PC's for other non-giga format libraries such as this. :D

Marcussen

07-28-2004, 07:58 AM

Will the bagpipes be elaborated upon?`

I will be needing bagpipes alot for a soon to be scored project, so I'm REALLY curious about any info you can supply regarding these.

07-28-2004, 09:26 AM

This sounds fantastic. I'll buy it for sure. (unless I decide to sell all my stuff and move to Morocco)

What are the chances of adding an Oud and a Kemenche (Turkish Violin) to the Mid East list? The Oud and Kemenche are essential to the sound of Turkish and Arabic music. Works pretty well for Klezmer too. Persian Classical too.

Seems a little odd to leave 'em out but perhaps they're not rare enough for this title. Of course, as you've said, you can't throw in everything. The other thing is, I suppose they could be pretty much impossible to sample because of the infinite variety of microtones and subtle gesture.

Regards
esteso

Kemenche and Oud would be great. However, Zimmer 2 has an Oud. Maybe that's why Nick thought it would just be needless? I think nick is focusing on areas that have not been done or done well. I think I read Nick stating recording was finished a while ago. I'm not sure though.

thesoundsmith

07-28-2004, 12:37 PM

If you own Kontakt, you'll be able to access it to edit it. If I'm not mistaken, you can change the loop points and simply save the .nki file. I believe that loop points are parameters in the .nki (I might be mistaken though). If you don't own Kontakt, have you tried EW's tech support and ask them to fix it for you?

Thanks for your comments, FV. No, I'm not seriously considering a class action suit, just relaying my friend's thoughts, as I am really tired of spending thousands of dollars on unusable product. I realize the difficulty of getting hundreds and thousands of edits and loops correct, and finding appropriate points, but what you're really saying is I have a choice of:
a) spend a few hundred more on yet another piece of software to install and learn in order to correct mistakes that should not have been there in the first place (and I already have sample editing software that would allow me to do this to any standard WAV or AIFF, so I'm paying because of the proprietary nature of the lib - implying that next year the new standard comes out, and it's deja vu all over again), or
b) spend my unpaid time to research the problem more extensively to supply enough info to the developer that they can actually supply the fix (when they get around to it, I know from experience that new product almost always takes precedence over existing, already-sold apps).

And in the midst of creating, stop my real work to become an unpaid beta tester and debugger.

I was not intending to rag on Nick (or Doug) specifically, they seem to be honorable men, as are all of the developers I have dealt with, but in this no-try-before-buy, no-return world where even one bad sample can fry a project with a deadline, this is an important issue. The new soft-synth approach has greatly reduced the transparency of the creative process, and I expect anything locked into these programs to work flawlessly every time, without exception. Yes, it's unrealistic, but if the developers want to have it all, they have to give it all...

In the meanwhile, I wait to see what this library will offer; I just no longer wait with breathless wonder and sparkling eyes. Instead I have to ask, "What are we NOT being shown?" Cynicism should have no place in the creative process, but these formats have given it a home.

But let's not go there, I don't wish to hijack the thread, and this has been hashed over many times before. I'm just an old fart who wants make music, not rebuild my systems and work flow yet again to accomodate the flavor-of-the-month.

Nick Phoenix

07-28-2004, 04:56 PM

Kemenche is kind of covered with the Yali Tambur and the electric baritone violin. Oud I left out because it has never interested me. Maybe I'll add it, if I have time. The bagpipes are the same as the ones that are in rare 1 except for the ensemble. The ensemble is 8 Scottish bagpipers playing in unison. It's sampled the same way I did the solo scottish pipes in rare 1. Rare 2 is supposed to be a complete ethnic library that will replace all else (if that's what you are looking for). It is not a fill in the holes library. After all, there are many sitar samples out there, but none like this. I feel that the ethnic category is the most poorly sampled of all of the sound families.

Brian2112

07-28-2004, 05:02 PM

8 Piper ensemble!!!:D

Wow!!! Being a transplanted Scotsman, I’m gunna love that!

Is it too late to sample some of those real high pitched snare drums to go with them? :D (I think they are called Skittish Snares?).

No worries! If not, I am so sold anyway!:D

Brian

Ouch that hurts

07-29-2004, 08:04 AM

The bagpipes are the same as the ones that are in rare 1 except for the ensemble. The ensemble is 8 Scottish bagpipers playing in unison.

Oh man. What's worse than the sound of one set of bagpipes? . . . You've got one sick sense of humour, or you've been having some pretty vivid nightmares, bad acid trips or something.

Question: Can your bagpipe samples be played solo?

"SO LOW" that we can't hear them!!!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

07-29-2004, 08:34 AM

Ouch that hurts ;) :D

FV

Nick Phoenix

07-29-2004, 01:33 PM

doh!

spettigrew

07-29-2004, 03:36 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions. Q4 release. 4 of us are working on it full time.

I'd like to help pay for the project so maybe you could hire another editor. I'm sure I could get 100 or so friends to chip in too. That is, maybe you could offer a preorder deal of 50% off to a large group who sends their payment this week. Cash flow for you, great investment for us. I realize all the costs probably haven't been factored in yet, but E/W has enough experience to project a probable budget. At the very least it would be a good test marketing concept, no?
How many advanced orders would it take to make this sort of idea feasible? Maybe I'm just dreaming, but the credit card is close by just in case.
This is what happens when you dangle a new list of instruments in front of an insatiable sample junkie; I begin to think of ways to fit it into my budget.
Would anyone else be willing to fork over the dough, four months in advance, for a super deal - group buy?
_S

fitch

07-29-2004, 03:38 PM

good idea.. these group buys seem to be very popular at the moment..

they must be working otherwise there wouldn't be so many of them

thesoundsmith

07-30-2004, 02:11 PM

Nick, a great addition would be a full set of Angkklung. I thought it was a pretty useless single percussion device until someone on the list showed us how they could be used in sets, like bamboo handbells.

Agreed that ethnic is way underutilized/underproduced. Perhaps becasue of the difficulty of finding qualified performers willing to participate? I have tried to do a set of sitar and sarod samples, but the only way it worked for me was to completely unstring and sample the chikari, sympathetic and melody strings independently, so a pitch bend did not bend the background sympathetics and chikari. It worked, but I did not like the recording quality (my bad...) Would love a usable (playable, not just a collection of artifacts) Indian library.

dwdonehoo

07-30-2004, 07:37 PM

Again (to beat a dead horse), I wish SOMEbody would sample those Timpani sized Roto-Toms. Killer sound with different sounds at different velocities. Talk about your rare instruments: but somebody has them in Hollywood/LA because I saw them being played on that main Hollywood sound stage. *sigh* :cool:

Brian2112

07-30-2004, 09:17 PM

Oh man. What's worse than the sound of one set of bagpipes? . . .
Answer: The pain inflicted by a Scotsman when you call his kilt a "dress" or insult his pipes.:p :D

Brian

Robert Kral

08-01-2004, 11:35 AM

Sounds VERY good indeed!!

When will it be available?

I need to start using it NEXT WEEK!!!!

Rob

PS I've read through the thread but perhaps I missed it: it seems there wasn't an explanation of legato yet?

Marcussen

08-01-2004, 11:45 AM

I would love more emphasis on the celtic isntruments - in particular pipes.

Oh well.. Ill be getting it anyway :D

TEMPS

09-30-2004, 12:31 PM

P de Caumette

09-30-2004, 12:43 PM

Nick,
there wouldn't be a balafon and a thumb piano (africa) in the instruments you forgot to list? :(

muziksculp

09-30-2004, 07:32 PM

Rich Pell

09-30-2004, 08:31 PM

Would RI2 utilizing the Kompakt engine, offer alternate scales for these rare instruments, (Chinese, Middle Eastern, Indian,...etc.) Many of these pitched instruments do not normally play the equal tempered scale, but rather more exotic scales, so it would be nice to have both (exotic, and eq. tempered) available to users.

Thanks.

Yea, I wouldnt be surprised if Nick and Co. would include some native microtuning presets for this Lib.
Kompakt /Kontakt already has built in flexable microtuning options/presets. Plus u can edit your own .NKP files and import thin into Kompakt/Kontakt. OR/ if your using cubase u can add the microtuner midi FX as an insert and tweak away... :) Rich

muziksculp

09-30-2004, 09:42 PM

****** Sounds Good !!! ******

P de Caumette

09-30-2004, 10:41 PM

bosone

10-01-2004, 02:05 AM

Nick,

Are you considering releasing a less expensive less inclusive version of this sampler as well? I'm afraid the price you will have to ask for the complete set will put it beyond my budget, but I would love to own some of the instruments (in particular the Koto) in the set. Perhaps you could release a set with just the Instruments of Japan?

i Join this request... maybe some less expansive version with the prosamples platinum philosophy could enter in my home.... but certainly not the full library!

WayneSim

10-01-2004, 09:50 AM

Great Stuff!

Another vote for a GIGA version!!!

esperlad

10-02-2004, 11:34 AM

I want to see a Giga version too.

nerual

10-02-2004, 02:15 PM

What are the chances of adding an Oud and a Kemenche (Turkish Violin) to the Mid East list? The Oud and Kemenche are essential to the sound of Turkish and Arabic music. Works pretty well for Klezmer too. Persian Classical too.

If it's supposed to be a complete ethnic library I think like esteso that
it would be nice to have an Oud included in rare2.

Nerual

Nick Phoenix

10-02-2004, 02:42 PM

I'm working on the oud.

Nick Phoenix

10-02-2004, 02:44 PM

panzerD

10-02-2004, 02:57 PM

Excellent, I like Zimmer 2 guitars but I don't want to buy it just for the oud. An oud in RI2 would be a dream! Please include tremelos. ;)

Nick when will RI2 be coming out? Is it still scheduled for 2004? Can you or Doug make any upgrade pricing and preorder announcements yet? I'm waiting to preorder! :)

nerual

10-03-2004, 09:09 AM

Thanks Nick for adding an oud to the library
Rare2 is definitively on my shopping list.

Nerual

MDesigner

10-03-2004, 03:17 PM

Aaron,

I think you better wake up and smell the coffee, I don't think Nick or East West are much interested or concerned about Giga anymore. I think the whole Kontakt/Kompakt thing has been working really well for them. It has curbed down on piracy concerns, it gives a lot of bang for the buck, it does away with compatibility and conversion issues, in a word it works!

Pardon both my late reply and my boldness, but isn't dropping Giga support a bad idea? Especially with GS3 newly released, and all its new features and GigaPulse. Plus, I hear that running Giga instruments & NI instruments on one machine is very taxing. That's a dealbreaker for me right there. Sure I'll be upgrading to an Athlon 64 3200 CPU, but I think there's only so much you can do to a machine before you need two of them to handle the workload necessary.

I dunno, this sounds iffy. I'd like to see an official post from Nick or Doug saying that they are moving away from GigaStudio samples.

Also, I'd like to know how using Kontakt/Kompakt has cut piracy concerns and added more value.

Gamera

10-03-2004, 09:30 PM

Agreed. I'd really be into adding this library to my Giga rig but I'm not going to use up the overhead on my Sonar rig when I need it for mix processing.

G

EricRichmond

10-03-2004, 11:23 PM

Giga is most likely the offender when talking about NI VI's vs. Giga

NI VI's run inside a sequencer, reliably with tons of other softsynths running.

I've not yet used Giga3, but Giga 2.54 was pretty much impossible to get running on a box that had a sequencer and too many other things happening.

tonylombardi

10-05-2004, 03:25 PM

I'd like a giga version too.

Herman Witkam

10-05-2004, 03:52 PM

It would've been a great library if it would be brought out in giga format. This could be a major mistake...

Existence

10-05-2004, 04:24 PM

It would've been a great library if it would be brought out in giga format. This could be a major mistake...

I believe that it will be a great library regardless of the format. However, I agree that it could be a mistake to overlook the large base of Giga users (such as myself) who would snap this library up if available in that format -- but who will most likely forgo it in its current incarnation.

David

Bennett

10-05-2004, 04:46 PM

Not that this is a petition, but I'd love to see this library on Giga format as well. There is a dearth of good ethnic/world instruments out there and I would snap this one up ASAP!

dougrogers

10-05-2004, 04:50 PM

GS3 is a possibility in the future but the version we are working on currently is a Kontakt based Virtual Instrument.

We like the format, it works for us in terms of reaching the entire market on both platforms, and these products are selling in quantities we never experienced with Giga.

We may do some Giga libraries in the future, but nothing is planned right now. If you are going to limit your choices to Giga only libraries, you are going to miss out on some great libraries. Maybe you should consider a set-up that allows you to run Giga on a dedicated PC and VIs on another - then you will have everything to choose from.

- Doug

Existence

10-05-2004, 04:57 PM

We like the format, it works for us in terms of reaching the entire market on both platforms, and these products are selling in quantities we never experienced with Giga.

- Doug

Hard to argue with that! Unfortunately, unless something specifically changes in the way I like to work, I will not be one of those sales. It is truly my loss that I do not feel that I can take advantage of this library in Native format.

Thanks for the information.

Regards,

David

Marcussen

10-05-2004, 05:38 PM

I guess it depends on work flow. Currently I use mostly Giga - However since Rare Instruments arent used all the time I like having them as a VI on my Daw. Then I have my often used orchestral giga instruments in one template and then load up rare istruments as needed.

Gamera

10-06-2004, 12:23 AM

Just looking at the sample platform poll on this board, it would seem like money is being left on the table.

G

Herman Witkam

10-06-2004, 03:35 AM

A library can only be great if I'm able to use it.
If Kontakt sells better, go Kontakt. Why the heck not...go with the Germans ;-)
Just don't expect me to go with an ugly interface and only 256 voices...

WayneSim

10-06-2004, 08:48 AM

I have to agree with the last few posts. And I can only answer for me personally. But as Kontakt or Virtual Instrument I wont be buying it. I just dont make the money to have multi-computer setups. I use one Giga based DAW with Cubase SX. And I dont see any need for anything else at this point. I think you will find alot of people in this situation. It's both our loss :(.

"these products are selling in quantities we never experienced with Giga" - I would have to argue that's becasue the sampling world has grown greatly with the last couple of years. I would tend to think that at the time you switched over was when the boom was on. But I dont have the evidence to back that up. I'm only giving my opinion. However you are always going to lose sales because many users will only use one sampler. It's sad yes, but it's true.

How much work is it to make a GS3 version? I assume it takes alot of time to program etc... I guess you are the only one who knows if it's worth it. Maybe you should have a poll on your website to see weather ppl would buy a GS3 version. Just a thought.

Best of luck with Rare Instruments 2, it should do very well.

EricRichmond

10-06-2004, 10:49 AM

Herman,

>Just don't expect me to go with an ugly interface and only 256 voices...

You can load as many instances of the kompakt player as you wish, 256 stereo voices each.

WayneSim,

>I use one Giga based DAW with Cubase SX. And I dont see any need for >anything else at this point. I think you will find alot of people in this situation. >It's both our loss .

Not sure what you mean here. VI's load INSIDE your sequencer. Meaning there would be no need for more hardware. You'd load it inside the same computer that SX is running on.

I'm not promoting that you switch over, its up to you to decide if you can pass on these libs or not. But I'm just posting this in case you didn't understand exactly how the technology works.

-Eric

Existence

10-06-2004, 11:26 AM

Not sure what you mean here. VI's load INSIDE your sequencer. Meaning there would be no need for more hardware. You'd load it inside the same computer that SX is running on.

-Eric

It has been many people's experience that running both Giga and VI's inside a sequencer on the same computer does not work all that well (splitting up limited available resources being a culprit). It also creates incredible complexity in terms of loading projects, keeping track of routing, work flow issues, and just configuring things to work together. Maybe not a problem if you are running one or two virtual instruments at a time, but the complexity is exponential when you start talking about complete orchestrations, etc.

Regards,

David

EricRichmond

10-06-2004, 12:58 PM

Yes, I agree, running Giga and a sequencer on the same machine is near impossible :(

For about 3 months I thought my system was horribly unstable, it turned out luckily it was just giga causing the problems.

FWIH, I routinely run QLSO Gold, Stormdrum (inside Kontakt), Atmopshere, Trilogy, Stylus and a few other doodads with no problems in Sonar4.

JonFairhurst

10-06-2004, 01:13 PM

Yes, I agree, running Giga and a sequencer on the same machine is near impossible...

Huh? I'm running GS3 and Sonar 3 on the same machine, and it rocks. Certainly Giga doesn't like some hardware/driver configurations, but after getting my box in order, I've had zero crashes, zero performance problems and excellently low latency.

-JF

EricRichmond

10-06-2004, 01:19 PM

Yeah! I'm amped to upgrade to Giga3 and see if it's become stable.

My primary statement was to agree with the guy who was saying you shouldn't run a sequencer, VIs and Giga on the same machine. But whereas I think he was implying the VI's were the problem, I was pointing out that Giga is probably the bad guy in that equation (based on my experience) since I can run oodles of VI's and other VSTs w/o problem

Existence

10-06-2004, 02:01 PM

But whereas I think he was implying the VI's were the problem, I was pointing out that Giga is probably the bad guy in that equation (based on my experience) since I can run oodles of VI's and other VSTs w/o problem

Not making any assertions one way or the other, as either scenario (Giga + Sequencer only or VI's + Sequencer only) works fine for most. (Don't want to get into the imbedded sampler engine versus Giga argument here!) It was just that in my experience Giga + Sequencers + VI's creates headaches.

I am using GS3 w/Sonar 3 just fine on one machine...

Regards,

David

EricRichmond

10-06-2004, 03:18 PM

Existence,

Excellent! Had you tried the Sonar3 + Giga2 combo? and if so, how did that fare for you? I'm just curious.

JonFairhurst

10-06-2004, 03:25 PM

I've been able to Run Sonar3 with GPO and GS3 at the same time, though I have to lauch Giga before GPO. I don't like to do that with large memory loads because I'm never quite sure where I will hit memory/processor overload. For smaller setups I'm not so worried, and am happy to run them together.

But I think it's true in general. If you're running a large, memory/processor intensive, real-time application - be it audio/video/a game/whatever - you probably don't want to run other stuff that could get in it's way. For instance when I'm capturing video from a DV cam to the hard drive, or when I'm burning a DVD, I don't so much as touch the mouse. One moment of memory/processor starvation could ruin the whole transfer.

Oh, and for larger projects, I generally reboot when going between Giga and GPO. I may not need to, but I want to take the time to ensure that all of the memory is available and defragmented. For small templates I don't worry about it.

-JF

EricRichmond

10-06-2004, 04:13 PM

Gah... I'm about 75% sure I'm going to sell my giga license, but it seems sonar and giga might be stable on the same machine finally...

This might take some more looking into :)

Herman Witkam

10-06-2004, 04:17 PM

Herman,

>Just don't expect me to go with an ugly interface and only 256 voices...

You can load as many instances of the kompakt player as you wish, 256 stereo voices each.

My mistake...but still, where's the powerfull list of features such as alternation and legato? A lot of features listed are only relevant to the real synthesizer freaks, reaktor users etc. The Kontakt interface looks more like a synth that loads samples as well, instead of the opposite.

PhattRaid

10-06-2004, 05:08 PM

Purchased the Rare 1 title sometime ago, and I'm still getting lots of mileage out of it.

Just wondering how the new bundled playback engine is going to handle intonation. The new sound list has instruments from Indonesia, Japan, Africa, India, and other countries where musicians do not always play in 12ET.

With Rare Instruments 1, there is freedom of intonation. One can play the samples in any engine (with conversion tools) from a RAM expandable rompler keyboard, to the stock PC GS2 format. Any sample can be retuned in a wav editor, or the onboard intonation facilities (if any) of the playback engine.

With any luck Rare 2 will include support for .tun format (or equivalent micro tuning functionality) . Otherwise the shift to the bundled format playback engine limits the ability to render authentic intonations for the selected instruments.

Personally, the move to a bundled engine sound format automatically moves a given library towards the bottom of my next purchase list. However, if the bundled engine does something extraordinary (such as Stylus RMX) for the class of samples it contains, then it has far more intrinsic value. The libraries we purchase are an investment for a lifetime.

EricRichmond

10-06-2004, 05:27 PM

Herman Witkam,

Inside Kontakt it's called 'Round-Robin' to do the alternation thing you're talking about. QLSO Gold, Stormdrum, LastLibs Acoustic Drums and various other libs use this.

There is a legato mode (like a synth legato mode), but I'm not sure if thats what you mean. There is no midi pre-processing tool like VSL uses that I know of yet.

Yes, I agree Kontakt doesn't necc. have the best gui / look, it does look somewhat like a video game lol.

Also, there are a ton of extra features like beatslicing, rex-ification of loops, tons of effects, filters, and a pretty flexible routing structure that does make kontakt feel like 'more-than-a-sampler' but I'm not sure thats the worst thing.

Again, I'm not trying to dissuade you, just trying to help fill in with some info.

Some great things have come from this thread for me at least

1) I'm def ordering RI2
2) I'm probably going to upgrade to giga3 instead of selling my giga2 license :-D