Kirk Hunter giga import to Kontakt

[Wirebird]

I\'m considering to buy the Kirk Hunter Solo Strings library and I have read on related forums that the KH Solo Strings don\'t import properly into Kontakt, specifically those patches that use Mod Wheel Control for accessing various articulations. I have found no solution covering this and since this is what I\'m really after, I was wondering if it can be easily fixed or if I should look elsewere for a solo string library.
Any success stories out there?

I have written to Kirk Hunter and asked about this but never got a reply, but he\'s probably busy or away for the holidays.
Edited later: I got a reply, so everything is worked out :-)

Antoher question to those that have bought the KH libraries: If I buy the library (or separate libraries) via the PayPal option, how long does it take from purchase to recieving the library? I\'m having plans for christmas :-)

Cheers,
Wirebird

[Bill]

Thr problem isn\'t the KH Strings, the problem is Kontakt.

Get a third party conversion program, like CDXtract or Translator.

[Jamie Haggerty]

Took about 5 days to get the solo Cello and the solo viola for me.
And Kirk was always quick to respond
to questions so It may be he is away for the holiday.
I don\'t use Kontact yet but I used CDXtract to convert to Reason and the instruments are still very expressive. They are well worth having. I\'m sure you can tweak them to work in Kontact.
J

[Wirebird]

Thanks guys. I know the problem is Kontakt, but that\'s my sampler of choice and until they have fixed the giga import issues, I will have to put some time into editing imported samples. Regarding CDXtract I\'ve heard that this does not help regarding the Mod Wheel switches, one user ended up with multiple layers of samples all in one group... Also, the $139 that CDXtract costs is a lot of money to have spent if it doesn\'t work.
My point is that I\'ve already spent a lot of time editing giga imports, and I really don\'t want to buy a huge library where I end up fixing stuff like this for weeks. Maybe if it\'s worth it (and judged by the demos of the KH solo strings library it probably is), but then again fixing giga imports can be a bit blindfolded since one doesn\'t know how the patches are supposed to sound from the beginning.

Cheers,
Wirebird

[Wirebird]

Thanks Hildog. I have spent a lot of time lately reading through forum post everywhere related to this and the Kirk Hunter Solo Strings library. It seems there\'s no workaround for the MW switches, and the one to blame (if one has to) is Native Instruments. Since Kontakt can do MW switching I see no reason why it shouldn\'t be able to import such programs, but then again proper giga import seems to be library specific. What works when importing one library doesn\'t necessarily work when importing another.

However... I just ordered the Kirk Hunter Solo Strings library anyway images/icons/smile.gif
Judging by the demos, the mile long list of abbreviations, the fact that one can assemble these MW patches from separate patches and happy users everywhere, it does seem worthwile to program what\'s missing in the import. As far as I\'ve read on forums, the separate programs import just fine, so hopefully it won\'t be a too big deal to combine these into MW switch programs.

Cheers,
Wirebird

[Rich Pell]

HI Hilldog. You seem to know the KH lib. and its Giga>kontakt pitfalls quite well. Theres a post on the Kontakt Forum at NI that Martin Jann posted requesting people to describe there giga>kontakt exp. so that they can try to nail down and fix the convertion process. Would u mind posting your findings there. I would do it but i dont have KHS so i dont know the specifics like you do....Lets make this happen! RIch

[Bill]

It would appear that Hildog and Wirebird are talking about two different things. MW cross fades and MW keyswtiching are not the same thing at all. I don’t have the KH Strings, but since cross fades are not appropriate for solo instruments, I don’t think that they’re an issue. CDXtract should have no problem with a MW controlled keyswitch. I personally use cc16 in Giga as a dimension controller, and have not problem with those conversions.

[Wirebird]

As far as I\'ve read on different forums, both Kontakt and CDXtrakt does not convert MW switches in this particular case. Maybe they do when converting some other libraries.
Have a look at the thread below:
http://www.northernsounds.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=006213 (\"http://www.northernsounds.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=006213\")

I\'ve read about this being the same issue with CDXtract, but unfortunately I don\'t remember where that was. In any case I can\'t afford to buy CDXtract since I just bought the KH library and next up is GPO.
I\'ll soon find out when I get the library, maybe it isn\'t a big deal to create MW switch programs from the separate programs that are included.

Cheers,
Wirebird

[Bill]

Just remember that the MW is a heavily use controller. Your life will be much simpler if all you instruments use the same controller to do the same thing. That’s why I use cc16 for the dimension controller. The MW is frequently already programmed to do other things.

[Hildog]

Originally posted by Rich Pell:
HI Hilldog. You seem to know the KH lib. and its Giga>kontakt pitfalls quite well...i dont have KHS so i dont know the specifics like you do....<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Well, sorry to disappoint you Rich, but I don\'t actually know anything about the KH libs...although I wish I did because I love everything I\'ve ever heard from KH...

The stuff I was doing earlier this week was some stuff I just kind of threw together in Giga specifically to test whether or not modwheel xfades (not switches) would transfer from Giga > Kontakt via CDXtract...it didn\'t in my particular case...If I misread \"modwheel xfades\" in place of \"modwheel switches\", I apologize...I probably did that because I was in the \"modwheel xfade\" frame of mind from the stuff I\'ve been doing recently. But if anyone has any tips on getting that working, I\'d love to hear it.


Just remember that the MW is a heavily use controller. Your life will be much simpler if all you instruments use the same controller to do the same thing. That’s why I use cc16 for the dimension controller. The MW is frequently already programmed to do other things.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Personally, in general for switching, I prefer using keys while using the modwheel (xfades) for dynamics-related controls. Whatever the case, I\'m sure that the KH solo strings will be great - you just might need to use a little programming elbow grease to tweak them to perfection for use in Kontakt.

[Hildog]

Originally posted by Wirebird:
...until they have fixed the giga import issues, I will have to put some time into editing imported samples. Regarding CDXtract I\'ve heard that this does not help regarding the Mod Wheel switches, one user ended up with multiple layers of samples all in one group...<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I can confirm this...I just created some semi-custom stuff in Giga, but I was having polyphony problems since I only have Giga 96...so I thought I\'d convert it to Kontakt just to see what would happen (using CDXtract). The only dimensions I had going in Giga were stereo & a 4-layer mod-wheel xfade. The good news is that the polyphony problems were more than totally fixed - the bad news is that what you described above happened exactly...I got 1 group with 4 regions on each keygroup with no modwheel action whatsoever.

Someone feel free to correct me on this since I\'m just a novice, but in general, if you\'re trying to import samples that use more than one dimension in Giga (i.e. keyswitches and modwheel xfades), then you\'re going to have to make some choices and probably do some serious editing - the problem I can foresee is unless the sample library comes with documentation that shows precisely how everything is programmed (or unless you have both samplers), it\'s going to be tough to re-construct.

I will say that CDXtract is great - not perfect, but great still. My philosophy is that any time you\'re converting anything, unless it\'s utterly simple programming to begin with, you\'re going to have to do some tweaking - whether it\'s velocity curves, ADSR envelopes, whatever. I\'ve converted stuff from all different formats to Giga & Kontakt, and it works out pretty well...there\'s usually a bit of post-conversion editing to be done, but since I do at least a little bit of custom programming on just about everything, it\'s usually not that big a deal - I highly recommend it - it sure beats the hell out of reconstructing stuff from scratch.

[Wirebird]

I\'m not sure if the mod wheel is the best choice for dimension/group switching. But I guess when it comes to string samples and similar the mod wheel has no use anyway (unless of course it switches to vibrato samples). Perhaps key switching is a more accurate approach in these cases, but then again that\'s a matter of key range for the particular instrument. You don\'t want to have to switch an octave down just to reach the switches.

Wirebird

[Wirebird]

Originally posted by Edi:
As Rich Pell has noted there are many discussions about this topic on NI KONTAKT forum. Go there and do a search on GIGA to find much of this. Meanwhile here some findings of mine.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I have already searched and read through a lot of the discussions at the NI Kontakt forum regarding this, and also posted this question there. My findings basically match yours, although giga dimensions does not always end up in separate groups after import. Sometimes all the dimensions end up in one single group.

Cheers,
Wirebird

[Edi]

As Rich Pell has noted there are many discussions about this topic on NI KONTAKT forum. Go there and do a search on GIGA to find much of this. Meanwhile here some findings of mine.

KONTAKT assigns the collective GIGA dimensions for a given program into different GROUPS within an INSTRUMENT.

KONTAKT can do KEYSWITCHING between groups.

KONTAKT can do MODWHEEL switching between groups.

KONTAKT can do MODWHEEL crossfades between groups.

KONTAKT can do MW crossfades between
KEYSWITCHED groups.

KONTAKT can even do alternations between different groups on random basis for more realistic sound of repeated notes.

KONTAKT cannot do MODWHEEL SWITCHING between KEYSWITCHED groups.

KONTAKT cannot do random alternations between KEYSWITCHED groups.

I am here talking about the current KONTAKT design.

The problem with those that cannot be done is simple:

There is a field in the KONTAKT instrument description that allows selection of one of the following for each group(dimension):

Keyswitch/modwheel switch/round robin. BUT you cannot choose more than one of these for a group.

There is another field that assigns MW crossfade to a group. This CAN BE combined with the previous field selection.


By the way there are useful things that can be done by crossfade between dimensions, even on strings as in Advanced Orchestra.
For example you can fade between a piano and a forte on a sostained note, or between a piano and forte tremolo...etc.

Ed

[Briguy]

Hey ppl, I just got KHSS last week. I\'m using KONTAKT and noticed the mod wheel bug thing. Now after reading all the posts I\'m not sure if I\'m really hearing what I am suppose to due to conversion. I notice that release tails are short if I\'m correct. Actually I have giga 24 from when I bought my Midi controller, I might just do a test and compare, and hopefully I can let you all know If there is any difference in what is being produced. Anyway I realy hope NI is still working on some updates in everyway, cause KONTAKT can still use it. I still get crashes in stand alone mode as well as using it as a DXi. I\'m gonna go try the comparison, C ya all for now.