Finale, GPO and Dynamics

[Trolls]

Greetings,
I've been using GPO for several months now and seem to have the hang of it. However, when I use it in Finale 2004, I am having a problem getting my dynamics to work. I created a library, set the playback to Modulation and put in my values (the same numbers as the velocity equivalents). When I place them in the score, I get no response. Am I missing a step? Thanks for any help.

Tim

[Jeff Turner]

Tim,

The first thing that comes to mind is Finale 2004's human playback. I always turn it off. It doesn't give the user enough control. By changing the playback definition of staff expressions from velocity to modulation controller #1 works for me.

Jeff

[papabear]

Hallo Trolls, I have the same problem with dynamics and Finale 2004 I guess I´ll have to try the suggestion from the gentleman who first replied ! :rolleyes:

[papabear]

Hallo Jeff ! can you please explain how that works I´m a bit new and I´m not quite sure I´ve got it right, thankyou. Chris

[Trolls]

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the reply. It only seems to work sporadically. I made sure that the Human Playback was off (I usually don't use it anyway). I then opened a piece I'm currently writing and placed a rather dramatic change in, making sure that I had set the expressions to use modulation rather than velocity. Then I played it back. The result was strange: It made the change for 1 measure, but then seemed to default to the previous level. In this case I went from forte to piano. Then I tried to go from Piano to Forte and it just played at a mezzo-forte. I'm stumped. I know that on my old computer this worked, but I just got a new laptop 2 weeks ago and I just noticed this problem the other night. Could I be missing a setting somewhere else? I looked over the manual carefully, but I don't see anything I missed.

Regards,
Tim

[Jeff Turner]

Tim,

Without seeing your file, my first guess is that there's another expression resetting the volume. Sometimes in Finale I've duplicated expressions rather than creating them from scratch, and I've forgotten to change the playback info.

Here's a link to Adam Burford's tutorial in case you haven't seen it. There's a lot of information here.

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14718&highlight=Finale

It should work. I'd experiment on a small file first. Maybe just 4 bars. Put dynamic changes in every bar. Once you get that to work, use the same principle on a larger piece.

Jeff

[Jerry W.]

Hi Tim, everyone

The very first thing I would look at (and this is the simplest) is to make sure "ignore Mod Wheel" isn't selected in the GPO studio Settings under "Mode".

It sets the mod wheel to about 3/4 high and then just leaves it there.

Playback is weird and strange when this is engaged.

Just a thought - I know that yoou already thought of this - but sometimes the simplest solution is the one most overlooked.

Jerry

:)

[Trolls]

Hi Jerry,
I just checked and the mode is set to Default. I noticed that I can use the MIDI tool to alter the Modulation, but when I use my custom expressions (or even alter the given expressions), they don't have any affect on the playback. I'm getting really confused now.

Tim

[Jeff Turner]

Tim,

Check your PM.

Jeff

[Trolls]

Tim,

Check your PM.

Jeff
Jeff,
Sorry, I'm not sure what PM is (Although it will probably hit me when I press submit).

Tim

[Jeff Turner]

PM - private message
at the top of the forum click on "my profile" there you'll find your private message area and other controls.

JT

[snorlax]

Tim,
Another basic question:
What instruments are you using? If you're using pizz strings, piano, percussion, or the like, those respond to velocity. Winds generally respond to CC1 Mod Wheel info.

Also--what version of Finale are you using? If you mentioned it, I forgot.
;-) 2001 or 2002 had some "rogue" expressions that were incorrectly defined for playback. I forget what the expressions were, which version of Finale it was, and what the rogues did. (some help, eh?) If those rogues are present, that might explain some of the oddity

Next--there isn't necessarily a 1-to-1 correspondence between what your velocity settings were and what the modwheel setting should be in GPO. Just to assure yourself that it works, set your modwheel values to extremes if you haven't done so already. I really had to experiment with that, but I did get it to work.

Another check would be to save your file with your expressions in it as a MIDI file and look at it in the event list of a sequencer--if it's working, you will be able to see the CC1 messages.

If all else fails, feel free to send me the file--I have WinFin 2004B, and haven't found integration with GPO too much of a PITA other than executable shapes, which are the work of Satan's minions ;-)

Hope this helps...Jim W.

[Trolls]

Hi Jim,
I have Finale 2004b. I did a test file and the dynamic settings I've been using worked on that. I'm using the Brass and Organ, although I haven't started on the organ part yet. I think there must be some errant setting in the file, but even after 11 years of using Finale, I still don't know of a way to reset MIDI controller values. I normally only use Finale for notation. When I use the playback features it's just to listen for wrong notes. However, I was hoping to take some of the work out of preping a playback file in SONAR. We'll see, I haven't given up on fixing this.

Tim

[snorlax]

but even after 11 years of using Finale, I still don't know of a way to reset MIDI controller values.
Tim,
If it's not too much time & effort, you might want to strip out all your expressions before taking the steps below.
You can reset MIDI by:
Going to the MIDI tool...(tools>advanced tools>MIDI)
Selecting "edit continuous data"
Selecting the region you want to wipe (or ctrl-A for all of it), and
hitting the backspace key.

Given the nature of this situation, you might also want to repeat the process, but check "edit note velocities" instead of "edit continuous data." Velocity does have some bearing on brass attacks in GPO.
Writing for brass & organ is a good thing...of course, you have written a prominent part for the euphonium. :)

My offer to look at the file still stands--summer school is winding down!!

Jim

[Trolls]

Jim,
I just sent the file. Your suggestion was a partial success. Jeff has it also. I hope one of you is able to help me on this. Overall, it doesn't make a difference as to how the score looks, only how it sounds. But now it's really bugging me.

Regards,
Tim

[Trolls]

A further update to anyone interested: I tried Jim's suggestion again and erased all my expressions and then got rid of any continuous controller data and velocities. Then I started placing expressions in again. This time, everything on Channel 17 (GPO studio 1 channel 1, in my setup) responded, but channels 18-20 did not. They all remained at the initial level. I think this is progress, since before none of the channels responded, but it's still not there. Thanks to all who are following this.

Regards,
Tim

[snorlax]

A further update to anyone interested: I tried Jim's suggestion again and erased all my expressions and then got rid of any continuous controller data and velocities. Then I started placing expressions in again. This time, everything on Channel 17 (GPO studio 1 channel 1, in my setup) responded, but channels 18-20 did not. They all remained at the initial level. I think this is progress, since before none of the channels responded, but it's still not there. Thanks to all who are following this.

Regards,
Tim
Tim--check your email. I found a fix as to why no CC1 data went to the other channels.

Jim

[Jeff Turner]

Tim,

I'm curious as to what Jim found. I couldn't figure it out.

Jeff

[Trolls]

Tim,

I'm curious as to what Jim found. I couldn't figure it out.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,
It turns out when I put the expressions in as score expressions they didn't send any CC data unless I select them in the list under both score and parts. If I do that, or enter them as note expressions, all is fine. Weird. That does seem to be it though, since now the score plays fine.

Best,
Tim