Symphony No. 1

[AndreasKrebs]

Hi,

after having used a "homebrew" virtual orchestra (softsampler with an older audio library), I finally bought GPO and rendered my first symphony with it. I've put the results (download is free, of course) on:

http://www.andreaskrebs.de/html/downloads.html

Unfortunately, I did not yet translate my german pages, but the content is quite simple: one mp3 for each of the four parts - in mono (bad quality) and in stereo (better quality).

I would be very happy for any feedback, comments, critics, etc. :D

Best regards,
Andreas

[Hardy Heern]

Hi,

after having used a "homebrew" virtual orchestra (softsampler with an older audio library), I finally bought GPO and rendered my first symphony with it. I've put the results (download is free, of course) on:

http://www.andreaskrebs.de/html/downloads.html

Unfortunately, I did not yet translate my german pages, but the content is quite simple: one mp3 for each of the four parts - in mono (bad quality) and in stereo (better quality).

I would be very happy for any feedback, comments, critics, etc. :D

Best regards,
Andreas
I listened to a part of each section as I don't have time at the moment to listen to all of the parts all the way through. This musical style is towards the limit of musical modernity that I like, but contrary to common belief I do actually enjoy some of this type of music providing it is sufficiently restrained. I thought all the sections were good but particularly I thought the 3rd movement was excellent.

I'm going to listen right through when I get more time.

frank

[YBaCuO]

Colossal.

The symphony is brilliantly performed using GPO; the use of brass in particular is simply stunning.

For those feeling a little daunted by the size of the 128kb downloads please note this download is a must. The symphony is roughly influenced by Bruckner-Mahler (as well as, perhaps unintentionally, Janacek) but with Krebs unique voice blasting through at all moments.

Mahler and Janacek are among my favorite composers and this Symphony No. 1 looks destined to sit among these constellations. My original quibble about a lack of recurring thematic hooks (I've clearly listened to too many film demos recently ...) has melted away upon repeated listenings. Now, I actually prefer it!

Standing ovation ...

YBaCuO

[Sicmu]

It's stunning,
It's a lot of work for a massive symphony writtenin the late 19 century tradition.
Never it's boring and it's full of energy; that's true, there is some Bruckner and Janacek (but not too much Mahler to my opinion except the fourth mvt) but the composer who came to my mind immediatly was Robert Simpson. Do you know his symphonies and especially the ninth ? It's rooted in the Beethoven, Bruckner and sometimes Nielsen tradition, like Bruckner's ninth's your symphony is the evocation of a cathedral ( to me).I don't mean it's just a copy : what an achievement for a first tentative !
Your wirk really deserves a live performance to show all its potential.

Bravo and hope you write more symphonies because the cycle of Krebs is vital !

[gugliel]

Listened to first movement so far, good work. Sometimes little details of doubling dissimilar timbres two octaves apart, or duplicating melodic rhythm in the drums, seemed ineffective; there was a moment at around 4 minutes that seemed broken by the entry of snare drum. Enjoyed listening and will try to get back for more. Good use of texture in a synthesized orchestra to avoid tiring the ears too much.

[AndreasKrebs]

Hello,

thank you so much for your feedback! I'm quite overwhelmed, since I didn't expect that anyone except myself would appreciate this music...

My own favourite classical composers are indeed Bruckner, Mahler, Janacek, Nielsen, Strawinsky, Beethoven (of course!), etc. Lately, I'm quite amazed by the works of Rautavaara, since I'm still searching for contemporary composers I really like listening to (not too easy with many 20th/21st century composers :rolleyes: ). My goal was always to write some kind of music that is "modern" in a sense of trying out new things (i.e. I'm happy when I don't copy something), but which can still be *enjoyed*

Robert Simpson is an interesting hint: since I don't know his works yet, I'll have to check it (my local record dealer will be happy to see me again...).

Currently, I'm working in parallel on a second symphony (a scetch of the first 6 minutes yet exists), as well as on a synthesizer piece, but this may take some months to be finished.

Thanks a lot,
Andreas

[Hardy Heern]

My goal was always to write some kind of music that is "modern" in a sense of trying out new things (i.e. I'm happy when I don't copy something), but which can still be *enjoyed*

That's a great goal to have Andreas....quite difficult to achieve, I would think, but you are certainly there!

Frank

[Sicmu]

I also like rautavaara and you're right : he demonstrates that we can write something modern but strongly tonal and very emotional, the period of pure atonality domination is over and now one can express his own feeling and not to be treated as "backward-looking".
If you are looking for some 20-21 cenury composres in the sams vein of rautavaara I recommend you Aulis Sallinen, Kalevi Aho and Vagn Holmboe, they all come from the Nordic-Sibelius tradition and are great symphonists.

[AndreasKrebs]

I also like rautavaara and you're right : he demonstrates that we can write something modern but strongly tonal and very emotional, the period of pure atonality domination is over and now one can express his own feeling and not to be treated as "backward-looking".
If you are looking for some 20-21 cenury composres in the sams vein of rautavaara I recommend you Aulis Sallinen, Kalevi Aho and Vagn Holmboe, they all come from the Nordic-Sibelius tradition and are great symphonists.
The first time I listened to Rautavaara (two weeks ago!) I thougt: what a great time to live in and compose: finally, music is "allowed" to use its full painting palette from deep harmonies to strong dissonances.

Btw.: Sibelius is also among my favourites, as well as Shostakovitch :)

Thanks for the recommendations (did I mention my happy record dealer?).

@gugliel: Yes, there's some crackling noise I unfortunately didn't manage to get rid of :( As for orchestration: the usage of timpani as a *melodic* instrument was done on purpose (maybe a performing version should avoid this, since it requires a couple of drums and I'm not quite sure if the effect is worth the effort...)

Best regards,
Andreas

[TNM]

I can't get the links to download... .

Anyone else have this issue?

Thomas Maritn

www.thomasnathanielmartin.com

[Error]

The links to the music are messed up. You can get to them if you put your mouse over the link and look at the link. For example, the link to the high quality of the first movement is http://www.andreaskrebs.de/assets/media/erste-satz1-128kbit.mp3
(change the number after satz to get the other movements)

I really liked the music. I especially liked the dynamism in your music - it moves convincingly from different sections (in volume, orchestration, dissonance, etc.) very convincingly in a very short amount of time.

[KevinKauai]

Hi, Andreas - -

First off, a large-scale work to listen to, but I’m happy that I downloaded it for the listen this morning.

Second, I’m anxious to hear your next work using GPO as I think there are facets of this work that suffer from having GPO as the “interpreters” on sort of a “second-hand” basis. I think I can hear many places where you would have done more precise articulation that works well with the GPO instruments but comes off in this “transfer” still a bit synthy. (Don’t get me wrong - - the music still shines through, but sometimes the instruments distract from the overall experience.)

Overall, I feel the same “distant echoes” of may of the composers cited in other observation (including Simpson, who, himself was a “echo” with a number of new twists of his own and is greatly under-recognized). Some of your contrasts in the second movement are shining and wonderful.

Altogether a worthwhile listen, though my ears (and head) got a bit stressed from the insistence of the last movement. More dynamic range (a few more periods for the listener to re-coup in quite moments) I think would add more contrast here.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but none of your movements is really “slow”. We’ve had a great deal of discussion around here of late about “adagio” and how it seems to take more “chops” to do it well. I know that I, personally, am struggle with the sonorities of the orchestral mix a lot more in a truly slow piece than in an allegro.

At just under 34 minutes, checking out a piece like this is a major investment of my day. I hope that you will favor us with future works (now that you’re in the GPO community) while “in progress” (perhaps a movement at a time, if you work in more-or-less traditional symphonic form). I look forward to hearing additional new work.

fwiw … KevinKauai

P.S. The links worked just fine for me. I opened the referenced page and then selected the MP3 file and used right-click “Save target as”.

[falcon1]

The problems with reviewing and giving comments on such big compositions like symphony movements is that it is both time consuming and more difficult if you don't have score in hand.

Anyway, I did listen to the piece and here's my thoughts:

Mov.1 - I wasn't very happy with the choice of voice leading in many sections, I found it to be bit on the weak side. Sometimes I got the feeling that you didn't quite know where you were going. Don't know about the timpani part playability, I would need to see the score to comment further on that. Where's the climax of the movement? Yes, there were some cresc. but IMO not enough for clear climax - maybe you didn't want it clear, then it's ok. :) The orchestration worked sometimes but often I wasn't happy with it but again, I would need to see the score to comment further on that.

Mov.2 - For a movement which is called "adagio" it's way too rough IMHO and lacks more melody nature, and slow relaxing effect. Again, I'm not too sure about the orchestration. Btw. this movement contains climaxes which the 1st movement should have produced!

Mov.3 - This movement has some of the problems of the 1st and 2nd movement. It needs more ground and direction, it's too lose in it's construction. And again, I'm not very happy with the weak voice leading.
Also, it doesn't have the character of Presto movement IMO. It should rather be called Andante or Allegretto.

Mov.4 - Again, not sure about the timpani part. It has again same problems as the other movements, but is anyway the strongest movement of these four IMO.

Overall - It's always worth applause when someone has the gut to write a complete symphony! However, I didn't like it much - maybe because it isn't in style I like or something like that. You have some very good ideas which could have been worked and developed in more structural manner - I find the lack of clear structure one of this symphony weakest point. Now, if you wanted the movements to be in lose form then you need to give the audience some pinpoints or road signs where the music are heading otherwise audience are quick to lose interest.
So my advice for your next symphony is to make attentions clear to audience and add some more clear directions. Also you need to do something about the voice leading, it was major bug in my mind.

Anyway, congrats on your first symphony and good luck with the next one!

[AndreasKrebs]

Hi,

still I don't now why for some of us (browser specific?) the links don't work properly. Sorry for any hassle with that.

Maybe the following link-list may help?

reasonable quality:
http://www.andreaskrebs.de/assets/media/erste-satz1-128kbit.mp3
http://www.andreaskrebs.de/assets/media/erste-satz2-128kbit.mp3
http://www.andreaskrebs.de/assets/media/erste-satz3-128kbit.mp3
http://www.andreaskrebs.de/assets/media/erste-satz4-128kbit.mp3

really low quality:
http://www.andreaskrebs.de/assets/media/erste-satz1-32kbit.mp3
http://www.andreaskrebs.de/assets/media/erste-satz2-32kbit.mp3
http://www.andreaskrebs.de/assets/media/erste-satz3-32kbit.mp3
http://www.andreaskrebs.de/assets/media/erste-satz4-32kbit.mp3


...
Second, I’m anxious to hear your next work using GPO as I think there are facets of this work that suffer from having GPO as the “interpreters” on sort of a “second-hand” basis. I think I can hear many places where you would have done more precise articulation that works well with the GPO instruments but comes off in this “transfer” still a bit synthy.


Kevin, you're completely right here: since I originally did this with another library, there was just a rough conversion (key velocity to modulation) with only little usage of features like damper pedal for legato lines, articulation with velocity, etc. My next work will use GPO from scratch and hence include these much more.

Slow movements: I have to admit, that all attempts to keep a slow movement (as no. 2) soon tend to increase in tempo and dynamics/orchestration. That's my personal nature :o Maybe in my second symphony - but I doubt if a really completely slow movement is within my abilities.

@falcon1:
Mabe, some of the weak points you found derive from a rather polyphonic usage of the orchestra. (Nearly) each voice may be seen as neither leading nor accompanying, with a few exceptions. This will lead to situations where you can ask "what happened suddenly to the melody?", etc., since another theme (or part of it) has popped up / reappeared and pushed the formerly leading voice to the background. Does this hit the point for you (or maybe I just misunderstood your comments)?

Best regards,
Andreas

[Garritan]

Andreas,

http://www.garritan.com/images/appl.gifhttp://www.garritan.com/images/appl.gifhttp://www.garritan.com/images/appl.gif

I heard the entire Symphony and it feels like I just had a full course meal of sound. Brilliant, comprehensive and outstanding! Your composition skills are extraordinary and your use of the library is masterful. This must have taken a long time to accomplish.

I saw the instrument list on your site and hope you don't mind it being posted here (hope I translated it correctly too):

12 Player First Violin Section
10 Player Second Violin Section
10 Player Viola Section
8 Player Cello Section
7 Player Contrabass Section
1 Piccolo Flute
2 Flutes
1 Alto Flute
3 Clarinets in B
1 Bass Clarinet
3 Oboes
2 English Horns
2 Bassoons
1 ContraBassoonn
1 Piccolo Trumpet
3 Trumpet
4 French Horns
2 Trombome
1 Tuba
Bass drums, triangle, timpani, gong, snare drum, tube bells

Bravo Andreas! Looking forward to hearing your next work.

I agree with YBaCuO.Standing ovation ...

Gary Garritan

[Craig Reeves]

I listened to the symphony and thought it was great! Man, you definitely know what you're doing, Andreas. Now go away and get back to writing, I wanna hear more from you!

[trentpmcd]

I've only had time to listen to the first two movements (I'm listening to the third as I write) and am very impressed.

Something that strikes me as strange - this is as far away from Minimalism as it is possible to go and yet I seem to hear some Phillip Glass-like textures and chords. Am I imagining this?

Very good. OK, excellent. Can't wait to listen to rest of it.

- Just finished listing (instead of doing work) and am still impressed.

[DPDAN]

Andreas, I won't even attempt to go into the terminology, I don't know any of that stuff, I think you have done alot of work here. May I offer just a wee bit of help.....? The timpani programming is weird. Gary and Tom have programmed the left and right hand samples for timpani on different notes so that it will take care of the problem of repeated notes, also it appears as though all the note velocities are the same in the timpani track, it sounds like the dynamics were drawn in with real straight lines, unlike a real timpanist could play (is that even a term?) timpani player, there much better :)
Anyway, if you can, go into all the tracks and make the attacks different from each other, get rid of the quantizing, and put your own real feeling in there and you won't believe the difference. What an accomplishment!!!!
Lot's of work
Dan

[AndreasKrebs]

Hello and thanks again for your comments!

This is *very* exciting for me :D

@Gary: Yes, of course your translation of my staff list is correct. Btw., I would have been faster in writing my music if I only had bought your fine GPO library two years earlier... What a great tool!

@Trent: Yes, there are (small) passages where melodic lines are repeated and "overlayed" (is this the correct term?) in a way similar to minimal music, esp. in the beginning of 2nd movement or in the treatment of brass/wood chords in 3rd movement.

@Dan: Yes, I don't like many of my timpani rolls too much either. Same holds for triangle. I hope, experience & experimentation will help for the future. Actually, I *did* use the separate left and right hand samples for timpani as well as for snare drums (together with "hand drawn" velocity curves) :confused: For my next works, I'll try to put some slight random function over timpany rolls, maybe this will help?

Best regards,
Andreas