Programming Left Handed Violinists vs Right Handed Violinists

[LFO]

All,
I am working on my first piece with GPO and have found it to be very challenging to mimic a left handed violinist vs a right handed violinist via MIDI. As you all know, the subtle differences can greatly enhance a piece, especially if the person listening has the same primary hand as the performer.

Does anyone have any tips to help me accomplish this?

-Kevin

[gugliel]

This is a joke, correct?

[RobbinsEgg]

The answer is very simple -
Use a mirror! :D

[Styxx]

I play violin a bit and would probably take the Jimi Hendricks approach and turn everything upsidown. :D

[RobbinsEgg]

JIMI !!!!!!
Wait a minute, where's my lighter fluid?

[LFO]

Hmmm....I didn't think this would cause so much confusion. I'll try to clarify.

As all of you know, due to the differences in left handed and right handed violinists, there are (admittidly) subtle differences in how a piece is performed and how the violin sounds. For instance, the Ignome theory demonstrates a definite pattern of harmonic differences in the upper and lower ranges of the violin depending on whether the primary hand for the player is left or right.

For instance, if a left handed violinist plays a piece by Bach (who was right handed) and it is listened to by a person who is right handed, certain playing techniques will be effected and all harmonics (that deliver the lush quality of the violin) will not register for the listener. Additionally, if the player is right handed, the composer right handed and the listener is right handed, everything falls into place and an excellent harmonic soundscape can be enjoyed. (I know I am leaving out the significant issue of the recording engineer being left or right handed, but the math gets difficult for me.) What has always baffled me is how a left handed player, left handed composer and left handed listener combination does not create the equivalent experience. I can only attribute this to the limitations of left handed players.

I'd like to be able to capture these differences, but it has elluded me. I know that I can somewhat imitate the harmonic patterns, through MIDI automation of a multi bandpass filter. The tougher issue is imitating the technical performance. If anyone has any ideas, I would be grateful.

Currently, I am working on the following pieces, each being unique as described below:

Pachabel's Canon with a left handed player (Pachabel was right handed)

Pachabel's Canon with a right handed player (Optimal experience if you are right handed)

Copland's Appalachian Spring, (adagio) with a right handed player (Copeland was left handed)
Copland's Appalacian Spring, (adagio) with a left handed player and recorded by a right handed engineer (This will take more time due to the obvious increase in technical difficulty.)

I am always looking for information on what primary hand a composer had. If you have any information on any composers please let me know.
(Hayden is still unknown and believe it or not Mozart is also unknown, though I personally am convinced he was left handed.) Or, if you have any thoughts on the subject, I'd be glad to hear them. I can post some URLs to some sites dedicated to the study of primary hand influence on string execution theories.

Thanks again for any help!

-Kevin

[danpowers]

I know I overslept this morning, but I hadn't realized I'd slept all the way to April 1st!

[Hardy Heern]

Kevin, this sounds ever so subtle doesn't it?....Surely you wouldn't be able to hear this ever, except perhaps as a solo? Still, you know best!:)

Frank

[LFO]

Very true, Frank, though I must say there is more influence than, say, violinists who are near-sighted vs far sighted. I won't even bring up players who have straight versus curly hair, the permutations on that particular combination really do overwhelm me. I have found it near impossible to find the perfect combination.

For instance, if I were to compare a left handed female with long, straight blonde hair who is near sighted versus a right handed male with curly brown hair and a lazy eye and a hangnail on his left (not right) pinkie finger, it would take months just to figure out what to expect musically from each individual.

Of course, I could just sit down and listen...hmmmm...fascinating...

;)
-Kevin

[deadbeat]

Very Good!:D Had me going anyway.

[Hardy Heern]

Kevin, Ive been thinking about the science of this. I would welcome your opinion on the following propositiion as you seem to have more knowledge of the caghanded than most.
My idea is this: you know that when you have a centred stereo vocal? You can cancel it out by using the left and right hand phases. Well!….if you had a left handed and right handed violinist playing at the same time (and let’s leave hair colour out at this point to keep the logic simple) would they cancel out if recorded in stereo from the back?
I’m not suggesting that anyone would do this as it would be expensive hiring violinists when the likelihood is that you could get the same result with no one…..if you get my drift.

I must say that this is one of the most interesting topics to have stumbled onto the forum for some time. Needs more consideration though.


Frank

PS What was the question again??

[RobbinsEgg]

The question was:
If a left-handed bear poops in the woods, and a right-handed chicken has lips, is the pope catholic? :eek:

[Garritan]

Happy Belated "Left-Handers Day" which was on August 13th to all our lefties.

They say right handed people operate in the left side of the brain and left handed people use the right side. Therefore, only left handed people are in their right mind. :D

The left-handed violinists LFO mentions may not be a joke to some. Here's an informative book for lefty violinists: http://www.tiac.net/~cfiddle/lefthandedbook.html (http://www.tiac.net/%7Ecfiddle/lefthandedbook.html) According to the author "The myth of the 'left hander's advantage in playing right handed' is debunked with numerous logical, scientific, and common sense arguments! Despite the previous right handed bias towards playing bowed instruments, jazz violinists, old timey country fiddlers, Cape Breton fiddlers, symphony violinists, and leaders of several major string quartets have discovered the benefits of bowing lefty."

Gary Garritan


Sinistrophobia is the fear of left-handedness.

[LFO]

Now *that* had me laughing out loud, Gary! I tried to develop a premise that was teetering between ridiculous and legitimate (without going too over the top too soon) and now you report that there are people out there who consider it a topic worthy of investigation, research and proofs. The diversity of this world continues to amaze me. :)

I hope everyone had as much fun with the topic as I did. The reactions in the thread are proof of the quality of people on this board.

-Kevin

P.S. Frank, they answer to your question is yes *if* the left handed violinist is on the right and the right handed violinist is on the left and that the left handed violinist has a goiter. ;)

[RobbinsEgg]

The diversity of this world continues to amaze me. :

I'm not sure I'd label it as diversity :D

Did you know that 10% of people polled believe that Elvis is alive? :cool:

[trentpmcd]

So if we had lefties playing "Jimi style" (or "Paul McCartney Style") maybe we could go back to having the 1st and 2nd violins sitting opposite each other and having the second violins all left handers. ;)

[Hardy Heern]

I'm not sure I'd label it as diversity :D

Did you know that 10% of people polled believe that Elvis is alive? :cool:
Did you know that a lot of Americans don't believe that the Americans went to the moon? What these conspiracy theorists can't explain, though, is how the laser reflectors (used for measuring distance) got there:D :D

Frank

[trentpmcd]

Did you know that a lot of Americans don't believe that the Americans went to the moon? What these conspiracy theorists can't explain, though, is how the laser reflectors (used for measuring distance) got there:D :D

Frank

Don't you know anything? Elvis left them there after being picked up by the space aliens. The android he left behind malfunctioned and got bloated and so self-destructed. And some people think they are ejukated.

(I can’t believe spell check. Sometimes I miss a word by one letter (which I find out by looking it up in a dictionary) and spell check won’t even guess and yet it knew exactly what I meant by “ejukated”!)

[Hardy Heern]

Don't you know anything? Elvis left them there after being picked up by the space aliens. The android he left behind malfunctioned and got bloated and so self-destructed. And some people think they are ejukated.

(I can’t believe spell check. Sometimes I miss a word by one letter (which I find out by looking it up in a dictionary) and spell check won’t even guess and yet it knew exactly what I meant by “ejukated”!)

Oh yeah....sorry! It's obvious now that you mention it! Thanks!

Frank
PS Do you mean ejacukated?

[trentpmcd]

No, edgeyoukatetid.

[DPDAN]

If I mix an album from behind the soundboard, should I turn the speakers so they face me, it appears as though the pan knobs work backwards, is there an easy fix for this, or should I just reverse the phase of BOTH speakers?
oh, if it helps, I am right handed

[Theodor]

I've heard songs from Bach , Tchaikovski and Beethoven on Mobile phones and they still sound good even with just saw waves .
Is all this extreme detail so necsesary in order to make music ?

[LFO]

I can only hypothisize that when you heard the pieces played from the cell phones that the owners of the cell phones happened to have the same primary hand as the composer of the piece being played. I know I have heard several Bach (right hander) pieces played on cell phones and they have sounded fine in a few instances. In those few instances I have inquired of the cell phone user if they happened to be left handed. In each case they *were*! Coincidence? I think not!

I am not positive, however I think that anything avante guard is not effected by this phenominom. Perhaps it is the atonal nature of the music, or it could be that no one really knows when right or wrong notes are being played. I am sure science will be able to determine the truth behind this some day. Perhaps we should all get together to lobby for government funding? :D

-Kevin

P.S. Theodore, if you are totally lost at this point, take a few minutes and read the thread. I think you'll catch on. :)

[RobbinsEgg]

Ok LFO, now you're pushing it a bit too far!
This thread has now reached OVERLOAD.
TERMINATE!!
TERMINATE!!
TERMINATE!!
TERMINATE!!

Where's HAL when you need him? :confused: