Click track bleed?

[A_Sapp]

Is it common to hear the click track in film score soundtracks? I was listening to 'Spirited Away' the other day, and I've noticed on several tracks that the click track, as quiet as it is, is audible.

[Alan Lastufka]

I had this problem too Aaron with some of the performers I've recorded in the past - until I turned the frequency of the beep lower - now it is not noticable.

[Hudson]

Excellent tip, Alan. It's one of those "Doh, now why didn't I think of that?" solutions.
-Hudson


I had this problem too Aaron with some of the performers I've recorded in the past - until I turned the frequency of the beep lower - now it is not noticable.

[PeterRoos]

Danny Elfman's Nightmare Before Christmas also has some "nice" click track bleeds :cool:

[Dietz]

[...] I was listening to 'Spirited Away' the other day [...]

.... a _marvellous_ film, BTW.

[A_Sapp]

Of course! One of my top 5 favorite films (animated or not :)).

[Bruce A. Richardson]

It's one of those really hard problems when you're seating a huge ensemble, compounded by the fact that you've got to use high mic gains compared to rhythm-section type productions.

If you only feed click to the conductor, the problem is reduced. The problem is that it's very easy for the tail to "wag the dog" when you have an entire ensemble vs. one conductor (especially when composers, who are generally not very seasoned conductors, are at the baton).

I played the most grueling tour of my life in a situation where the drummer was playing to a click--because we were recording a double-length live album, and the producer wanted tracks from any night to be interchangable on both the album and the video.

That was THE worst playing experience of my life. When only the drummer has the click, he's necessarily going to pull off at times, and therefore will have to fudge the time to get back on. BUT, when no one else can hear the click, it's as if the time of the entire ensemble is on some sort of see-saw, and you never know when the drummer is going to basically stick his leg out and trip the rest of the ensemble (this particular drummer was a bit less seasoned than the rest of us, compounding the problem even more).

I have a feeling that a tightly-sync'ed cue in an orchestral session would be a similar situation, and I'm sure that people have tried it both ways and found that giving everyone the click is the better tradeoff.

[Bela D Media]

Great topic Aaron. I know that a click track can be heard on softer passages on the score Gettysburg.

What we have done to over come this issue when recording a large group was to create a full screen flash movie of a metronome blinking various tempos. The flash movie is sent out to a lagre monitor via S Video.

Sonically, it cant be beat... but your performers will need therapy to get that flashing image out of their heads :D

[Daryl]

I have a feeling that a tightly-sync'ed cue in an orchestral session would be a similar situation, and I'm sure that people have tried it both ways and found that giving everyone the click is the better tradeoff.

Yes, I have tried both ways (that sounds rather perverted, but I'm sure that you know what I mean), and I agree that the only solution when using an audio click is for everyone to have it. If only the conductor has it, then there is no musical interaction with the players, as they are never sure how much to indulge in their own musicality. However, when they hear the click as well they are fully aware of how much "give" there is in the tempo. However, there are many times when the click is dropped out to give a little more freedom and then introduced again later in the cue, and as long as the conductor is on the ball then this doesn't cause any problems.

DG

[seanmccoy]

Another option is to give everybody sealed phones like Sennheiser HD280's---nothing gets out of those babies! But it can still be a problem since many musicians prefer to record with one ear uncovered, and others hate using sealed phones for sonic and comfort reasons. I would think that an experienced film conductor would be able to function well as the only person hearing the click. But I've heard more than once that in the studio, even orchestral players usually prefer to hear the click.

[Nick Batzdorf]

Every one of my sessions from the '80s has click bleed. Terrible problem.

[KingIdiot]

tell your players that the cups of the headphones go OVER the ears, and to point them at their ears, not away.....

you might want to try grabbing a noise print of the click sound, and using it with noise reduction soft and shapping the freq response of the plug in, to try and get rid of it. If its soft enough AND if you only use it on quiet passages, you might be able to get rid of it enough without severely damaging the sound (I've done this trick to remove snare sounds, or different mics from a stereo mix down...mostly to get rid of a focused center channel and make it more open, but its mostly jsut to see what kidn of effect it will make......ok...yah I'm nuts....but you guys new that alraedy)

[His Frogness]

And use AKG cans in the live room, not Sonys. AKGs don't bleed as much.

[Richard Velex]

Alan-s reply gave me an idea, to take, his approach even further, give the click track a frequency with an obscenely narrow q, and that frequency very exagerated , basically, so that the click track has basically only that frequency and almost no others, then if the click has bled, it will be easier to @erase it@

Being the frequency band so incredibly narrow, when you decrease the level of that very narrow frequency you wont affect the sound of the instrument or instruments on the track as much!

[Richard Velex]

Of course my idea is meant for the recording stage, if you already have the problem recorded, well, try to do your best, it has happened to me too, click bleed is a permanent problem, i will try the approach i talked about on my next recording session

[Jaibulu]

Here is one of Jaibulu's Tricks

This is what I do when I record to a click. I get some small cheap walkman headphones (the ones that fit into your ear, without the head support) for about $5.00 and wear a protective ear muff (the ones you see they wear at the airport) over it. Since the headphones are small and really don't bleed much, adding the protective muffs stops the click from bleeding completely.

[A_Sapp]

Those muffs aren't exactly comfy. :)

[Jaibulu]

Those muffs aren't exactly comfy. :)

I disagree, it obviously depends on the ones you buy. The ones I use are comfortable, no different than my studio headphones. Don't buy the cheap ones. In life you get what you pay for!

[Jaibulu]

Those headphones from GK-Music look like they will help bleeding. I recorded the drum tracks for my album using the technique I stated before and the drummer loved it, we had no bleeding. Also changing your click to a sample in relation to what instrument is going to be recorded also helps.

[Adrian H]

Hi Guys.

Interesting thread. Of the soundtracks you have mentioned, are you listening to the version actually on the film, or can you hear the click on the CD soundtrack versions aswell (are these just taken straight off the film). The reason I ask is that part of the Music Technology A Level course I teach involves getting students to listen to recordings and pick out production faults. Usually these are very obvious faults, but I'd quite like to throw something like click track bleed at them and see if they spot it!

Cheers

Adrian

[Daryl]

There are also headphones that provide for some SERIOUS isolation designed for drummers. Phones that kept other sounds out would most likely also keep click leakage to a minimum.

Here's an example...

http://www.gk-music.com/

The problem, as mentioned earlier, is that lots of performers hate total isolation and really want to hear some of their instrument directly. So, they cock their headphones every which way to achieve a direct acoustic path. No headphone system will work if it's not worn correctly.

Lee Blaske

Most string players that I work with use one sided headphones and NEVER have anything in the cans except click.

Daryl

[PeterRoos]

Hi Guys.

Interesting thread. Of the soundtracks you have mentioned, are you listening to the version actually on the film, or can you hear the click on the CD soundtrack versions aswell (are these just taken straight off the film). The reason I ask is that part of the Music Technology A Level course I teach involves getting students to listen to recordings and pick out production faults. Usually these are very obvious faults, but I'd quite like to throw something like click track bleed at them and see if they spot it!

Cheers

AdrianHi Adrian,

Try to find The Nightmare Before Christmas soundtrack with, for instance, the track "Nabbed", around 0:10 - 0:15, at 1:29, at 2:03 (before a ralent.) , etc. There are several other spots in this album too.

Cheers,

[Adrian H]

Hi Adrian,

Try to find The Nightmare Before Christmas soundtrack with, for instance, the track "Nabbed", around 0:10 - 0:15, at 1:29, at 2:03 (before a ralent.) , etc. There are several other spots in this album too.

Cheers,


Thanks Peter

I'll look out for it

Cheers

Adrian