Velocity controlling in Sonar 3?

[Jared Hudson]

I still haven't figured out all the features with Sonar, but I have QLSO Gold, and one thing I'm trying to figure out is velocity controlling in realtime with midi. I don't want to record lets say...a string trill, and use volume to increase it sneaking in. Velocity changing sounds so much better and natural. Obviously you can't control 5 instruments at once with your hand in the midi mixdown, so you'd have to create an envelope and put nodes where you want the string trill to build and get louder and more aggressive.

Problem is...how? I've found the midi options, but when I try to mess with the velocity..it's not doing what I tell it to do.

Most of the time, I just type the velocity of each note manually, but on a single note string trill spanning 1-2 measures....I need to control it somehow! Anyone got any tips on this, or am I doing something wrong?

Thanks

Jared Hudson

[Joseph Burrell]

I thought velocity CC's were only 'note on' controllers and can't be used in an 'envelope' type context. I could be way off, since I'm just bored and have nothing better to do. :D

Man, I just saw your avatar and almost crapped myself. ATHF rules!!!!!

OT as well: Return to Escaflowne is wonderful. Yoko Kanno should get more respect in the US. Probably one of the most influential film/tv composers I've ever had the pleasure listening to. You really captured the feel in that piece. You should do something like Dance of Curse though. That song makes me want to break stuff. Really gets into me, when I hear it. I get all emotional with her music. It really touches a chord.

Alright, enough Hudson love, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Theodor]

Try right clicking on a Midi Clip and finding the Piano Roll editor. It's way easier to draw in velocities instead of typing them in manually .
You can also right click on a note and type if you want .
There are also some effects like velocity randomization , % Fade in or out , or even lowering velocities at the same %age . You select the notes in piano roll and then you find the midi effect you want ( right click ) .

I do not have Sonar 3 . But i have tried the Sonar 2 demo and it is very similar to cakewalk pro audio.

[JonFairhurst]

I'm not sure about Gold, but for most sound sets, the expression control (CC-11) is what you want to adjust. Velocity is based on how hard the note is struck, but doesn't control how the note is shaped. Expression lets you create a crescendo, decrescendo or any other shape.

Some use Volume (CC-7) instead of Expression, but I prefer to use the volume control for the mix level, and the expression control to model the way that the player would blow or bow the instrument.

-JF

[SteveHanlon]

Summing up:

-CC-7 like a master volume

-CC-11 dynamic changes (within notes and from note to note)

-Velocities use to trigger different samples within the .gig file (the different samples could be articulations or effects..depending on how the .gig was set-up)

[Layne]

I was unable to do that in Sonar 3. I can draw controllers. How do you draw velocities:confused:
Thanks Open the piano roll view for the track. You should see the controller pane at the bottom. At the left of the controller pane (underneath the piano keyboard) you should see three drop-down boxes. Select the arrow on the top one and select 'velocity' from the list. You will the see vertical lines below the begining of each note. These represent the note velocities.

[Jared Hudson]

I can see them, but I can't change (erase or draw) them as I do with controllers! It's 3.1.1 version.

Hey guys, I figured it out. I'm using 3.1.1 as well. Go to piano roll. Click on the little button near the bottom of the screen to the left. You'll see 3 drop down boxes. Do this:

First Box: Select CONTROL
Second Box: Select CC11
Third Box: Select which channel your sample is on

Finally, draw your path with the pencil. It works. I already tested it. THANKS YOU!

Jared

[Layne]

I can see them, but I can't change (erase or draw) them as I do with controllers! It's 3.1.1 version.
My guess is that you have more than one track selected and the track you are trying to edit is not the active track.

Click the button on the top of the piano roll with two arrows (one pointing up, and one pointing down). It will drop down a listing of your tracks with the ones selected for the piano roll highlighted. Click on the track you want, and make sure no others are selected.

You should be able to edit your velocities.

Conversely, you can mouse over the vertical bar on the right side of the piano roll window (right of the scroll bars) and drag it open to a pane that shows the tracks being edited. You can the select your track there.

[sfiks]

Click on the little button near the bottom of the screen to the left.or hit 'c' to open/close the controller pane.

Conversely, you can mouse over the vertical bar on the right side of the piano roll window (right of the scroll bars) and drag it open to a pane that shows the tracks being edited. or hit 'h' to open/close it.
Just tips;) Sorry, if you know them.

[Layne]

or hit 'c' to open/close the controller pane.
or hit 'h' to open/close it.
Just tips;) Sorry, if you know them.
Didn't know that one, thanks! :)

[Jared Hudson]

My bad...the CC11 controller seems to be working on volume levels only, but doesn't act as a self modulator for emotion patches and such on QLSO. When I select velocity in piano roll and draw it...it just disappears. It won't let me do it. :(

EDIT: I just keep finding out new things! CC 1 controls the mod wheel for emotion patches. I'm an idiot. :p

[Haydn]

Another point to remember with velocities. There is only 1 velocity level for each note. You cannot draw velocities for a note after the initial note is played as the velocity level is part of the note on command.

Velocity is normally only used to control the attack of the note. Each library is programmed differently on how velocity is used. QLSO will play softer samples on low velocities, a medium volume sample for middle velocities, and a loud brighter sample at high velocities. Most of the sounds use 3 velocity layers.

There is a balance that needs to be achieved between velocity and expression control. This takes practive to find what works best for each sound.

[Jared Hudson]

Another point to remember with velocities. There is only 1 velocity level for each note. You cannot draw velocities for a note after the initial note is played as the velocity level is part of the note on command.

Velocity is normally only used to control the attack of the note. Each library is programmed differently on how velocity is used. QLSO will play softer samples on low velocities, a medium volume sample for middle velocities, and a loud brighter sample at high velocities. Most of the sounds use 3 velocity layers.

There is a balance that needs to be achieved between velocity and expression control. This takes practive to find what works best for each sound.

Thanks. I think I was starting to figure that out. Evidently, I need EXP patches, that allow the intensity to build through the movement of the mod wheel, which requires the C 1 function. If it's just one plain sample of string trills, I guess I'm SOL and have to use volume.

[Layne]

Another point to remember with velocities. There is only 1 velocity level for each note. You cannot draw velocities for a note after the initial note is played as the velocity level is part of the note on command.

Or, to put it another way, velocity is actually a parameter of the midi note-on message and not, strictly speaking, a controller in its own right. (BTW, there's also a note-off velocity, but this is pretty much never used).



Velocity is normally only used to control the attack of the note. Each library is programmed differently on how velocity is used. QLSO will play softer samples on low velocities, a medium volume sample for middle velocities, and a loud brighter sample at high velocities. Most of the sounds use 3 velocity layers.

Kind of a peeve of mine is the use of velocity for volume control on sustaining instruments which, in real life, have variable volume/timbre over the duration of the note. With velocity controlling which sample is triggered, I have only limited options for varying the note.

I think velocity=volume makes sense for sounds that are generated by a single transient percusive strike (i.e. piano, percussion, pizzicato strings, etc).

Put another way, I've never known a trumpet player to play louder if you whacked him harder. :D

GPO is consistent in this approach. QLSO takes more of a different-strokes-for-different-folks tact with some patches working this way and others the traditional velocity=volume method.

Granted, there are tradoffs when you get into cross-fading multi-samples with polyphony limitations and phasing issues.

In general I prefer GPO's programming (and yes I know they don't XFade), but I love that QLSO sound.

Guess that's why I use both ;)




There is a balance that needs to be achieved between velocity and expression control. This takes practive to find what works best for each sound.
'nuff said.

[sfiks]

You should be able to edit your velocities.I'm happy editing now. Don't know why I couldn't do that before.
Thanks a lot, Layne!