Breakthrough Composer!!!!!!

[J. Whaley]

Allright, I got the resource listing up and apparently I have an IRQ conflict on 9. Can\'t figure out why though, I\'ve got everything seperate in the Bios.... any ideas?

[J. Whaley]

I\'ve posted a Sys. Info thing. It\'s at the link below, and it\'s the only file in the directory. I hope it works. Please let me know if you can help me images/icons/smile.gif

http://w3productions.net/gigahelp/ (\"http://w3productions.net/gigahelp/\")

[composer22]

Originally posted by J. Whaley:
Allright, I got the resource listing up and apparently I have an IRQ conflict on 9. Can\'t figure out why though, I\'ve got everything seperate in the Bios.... any ideas?<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Well windows + ACPI throws everything on IRQ nine. No usually that bad but in our case..well, I am a biggot for STANDARD PC not ACPI. I believe there is a way to turn this off via a switch somewhere on the DEVICE display and force win2000 to take whatever is in your BIOS. I have w2k here @ work but I am looking for something here id devices and cannot find.

Another option is to boot with the /PCILOCK option in your BOOT INI. This will disable win ability to auto assign IRQ\'s if you have problems...but beware as this may do wierd stuff so research before you try.

Also, this only deals with IRQ\'s assigned via your PCI slots which may be conflicting.

The other option and my suggestions is to use a different HAL. When you install the OS there is a way to choose a STANDARD PC as an option which will force it to use APM instead of ACPI and then IRQs are decided differently.

Read following pages. Tweaks tells you how to replace a HAL w/o reinstalling the OS. STANDARD PC should be the one you are after.

http://www.videoguys.com/Win2K.html (\"http://www.videoguys.com/Win2K.html\")
http://www.videoguys.com/Win2K_Tweaks.html (\"http://www.videoguys.com/Win2K_Tweaks.html\")

Remember, even with STANDARD PC you may get IRQ conflicts except they are NOT all on IRQ 9. You may need to move your PCI boards around to another slot to force BIOS into the OS. Another option is to use the /PCILOCK if you find problems.

Dont worry about USB being on the same IRQ though.

I had a few specious IRQ problems lasty weekend and I was able with alittle prodding on the BIOS to make my sound and video be independent.

Make sure also you DISABLE PNP OS on your mother board if there is an option - recommended by MS.

Im looking at your file right now

[composer22]

Yeah definately move to STANDARD PC

Disable your printer port if you dont need it in the BIOS. Frees an IRQ

Disable any COM ports if you dont need these in the BIOS. More IRQ are free if you do

Make sure you disable auto insert in your CD ROM

make sure your FAT32 drives have 32K clusters for your giga sounds...

You have 4 USB ports? Do you need them all? Can you disable any in the BIOS?

You may have alot of SERVICES running you dont need...too many. Do you really really need print spooling for example? messanger? task manager? symantic ghost? etc...see optimization pages

PowerDesk not needed and others in startup.

thats a start

[J. Whaley]

so basically I need to reinstall everything and set up a Standard PC instead of whatever this new fancy stuff is?

[composer22]

Originally posted by J. Whaley:
so basically I need to reinstall everything and set up a Standard PC instead of whatever this new fancy stuff is?<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">why don t you read the optimization pages above before committing? again It tells you how to replace the HAL w/o reinstalling everything

[J. Whaley]

yea, I started reading it.... looks like I\'m gonna be here for a while images/icons/frown.gif Thanks a lot for your help, I feel like I might be getting somewhere now images/icons/smile.gif

[composer22]

Originally posted by J. Whaley:
yea, I started reading it.... looks like I\'m gonna be here for a while images/icons/frown.gif Thanks a lot for your help, I feel like I might be getting somewhere now images/icons/smile.gif <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Yeah track down the change your HAL stuff and pick STANDARD PC

Also The BIOS Disables and extra services you dont need.

DONT play with the /PCILOCK command...Last resort

May take you a little while to play here but it will keep you going and should be done first before moving to any additional stages

see you soon

[J. Whaley]

How do I do 32k Clusters?

Also, I\'ve done everything I can figure out in the video opt. page. I actually ended up reinstalling last night. Well, I did all the optimizations, got Standard PC set up, and changed in my resources (I think I changed) to enable DMA 66. Well, my disks are still testing pretty slow. Only throughput of about 34. I should be getting closer to 100 shoudln\'t I? Things do seem to be getting better, but I just can\'t get consistant audio to be coming through without any pops. Basically I think it\'s a drive issue cause it sounds fine, and then suddenly it\'s like I hit the panic button, all the notes stop, and pick up where they\'re at. SOund like a drive problem to you? images/icons/confused.gif

[composer22]

Welp, lets go back and look at a few things:

2.5.48 or 2.5.42?

Can yo post another winmsd file so i can look at it?

did you play with the buffer settings on your soundcard?

Also, switch on the APM setting if you have it in power options

Do you have polyphony set as high as possible? Are you running into polyphony problems?

what does it look like now under your drive properties in device manager? Do you get any options?

To get clusters to 32k - two ways:

1) Buy partition magic and change over existing drives w/o formating

2) format your drives using the following command where X = drive letter:

FORMAT X: /FS:FAT32 /A:32K

of course that last one will erase everything on the drive and you will have to install

let m eknow

[J. Whaley]

okay, most of those things have been fixed, I\'m going to change the one that\'s not, post another file, at the same address as earlier, and I\'m also going to post an MP3 so you can hear what types of pops I\"m talking about. I really think it has to do with drive reading..

I am getting the DMA things now in device manager, finally. One thing I can\'t figure out, I have an IDE card that keeps showing the drive as a SCSI drive. Normal? Also, I can\'t figure how to make sure DMA is active on the IDE card. The card will support up to 133, I have DMA 100 drives so, I\'d expect good throughput. I Did the win2k fix in the registry listed on that video help page to enable win2k to see dma 66 drives, but I\'m not sure it worked. My drives are only reading a throughput of 34-37. Don\'t know why. I\'ll get that info posted. Thanks again for your help, it\'s much appreciated.

[composer22]

SCSi is a GOOD thing! It means it is enabled.

However, the cable thing is REALLY important. Although you may have 80 line cables, they may not be acceptable for /100 and you are being stuck @ 66. There are some nice high breed cables to concider at Fry\'s to be sure

Which registry setting? cut and paste it here...

Did you defrag?

I\'ll look at your settings

[J. Whaley]

Yea, still trying to get the stuff together. I\'m installing partition magic to check the 32 k clusters. I\'ll post the stuff in about 10 minutes

[composer22]

no problem

say you can do print screens too.

just press PRINT SCREEN key for a desktop snapshot

or ALT PRINT SCREEN for a window snap shot

then paste into a WORD document

Take some snapshots of whatever you think I should look at

[J. Whaley]

Okay, check out www.w3productions.net/gigahelp (\"http://www.w3productions.net/gigahelp\")

There\'s a system file for you to look at and an MP3 called bad giga pop.mp3 (with no spaces). This is my specific problem so you can hear what it\'s doing. It happens about every 20 seconds. This is a full string section, With 16 instances loaded (some are huge cause of layers and stuff) it took up 40% RAM in Giga. At the heaviest spots it was only taking about 6-10% CPU in Giga. Polyphny never reached more then 50. I have it set at 160, with 14 transition notes.

I don\'t have any specific screen shots I want you to see so... if you want any tell me and I\"ll do them.

If you think it will make a difference I\"ll get a new ribbon for the HD, but I\'d think I should at least get more then 37M throughput with the ribbon I have... any ideas on that? Maybe not 100, but 66 at least?

Giga v. 2.5.48, Buffer settings don\'t make a difference, APM switched on, 32k Clusters,

Okay, see what you can do magic man!

images/icons/wink.gif

[composer22]

wierd

Did you play with the M-audio Buffer settings, try increasing or lowering these...

again, disable comm ports and printer in BIOS

there are a number of services you dont need running. Why do you need all that networking?

do you have lights on your ethernet card? Try watching them while playing and see if you have any lights come on at the same moment as the pops
also look at the CD rom as well

latest drivers for delta?

Print snapshots of device manager/drives/ and /IDE controller/IDE channels tabs so I can see what kind of settings these display e.g. options...

Disable CDROM auto insert?

Seems well setup although you have some stuff running in backgroud taht is strange

savenow.exe
pdesk
...

I would get rid of EVERYTHING running except GIGA...that means NO printers, NO ETHERNET, NO background tasks except those that are necessary. Nothing except audio card and HDD, which I believe you should REALLY use your onboard port if it supports 100. Get good cables

you might try putting your HD on slot 2 and sound card on port 3 or reverse...you should also use LOW number IRQ\'s as these are higher up the IRQL priority chain, so hard code these in your BIOS.

The click is being recorded which points to a buffering problem timing issue

[composer22]

the network may be the culprit especially if you are connected to the internet...bad...bad...

No background tasks allowed...this is a real time system and windows sucks as it is for that kinda stuff - wrong OS!

IRQ\'s: ummm well, try one that is not used for a system device like 3 or 5 on slots 2 and 3

disable your COMM Ports and you will have more available...comm ports baaad. printer baaaaad...everything baaaad except giga giga giga

[J. Whaley]

alrighty, I\'ll try it... back after while

[composer22]

Originally posted by J. Whaley:
alrighty, I\'ll try it... back after while<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hey, also play with your hardware acceleration in your display settings...(advanced)

[J. Whaley]

Well, I\'ve got everything undone, but I can\'t figure out where to get rid of those strange files running in the back ground... any ideas?????

[J. Whaley]

For some reason Write Enable Caching keeps kicking back in everytime I restart... ideas??

[composer22]

Originally posted by J. Whaley:
For some reason Write Enable Caching keeps kicking back in everytime I restart... ideas??<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">No idea. they should be unset...did you press APPLY?

Also I dont believe it would matter much since that would be more in line with Audio recording rather than PLAY.

I am curious on your audio settings

are you trying to play at 44.1? 48? 16bit 24bit?

You might wnat to try slower settings if you are

and the DMA buffering size...larger

Are you outputting via analog or S/PDIF?

Also try setting background tasks taking priority - i am home but i believe this is under your control panel/SYSTEM advanced or perforamce tab...

[J. Whaley]

This may be a bit remedial, but do you think it\'s possible I have to wrong MOBO drivers? Did you say you have the same MOBO? Asus p4t revision 1.07. humm... I just found a whole bunch of drivers on the site I didn\'t see before..... I\'m gonna investigate that a little more.

[J. Whaley]

44.1, 16 bit..... analog.....

[J. Whaley]

Okay, I\'ve done everything we can figure... tell me, if I\'m not getting DMA 66 response do you think that would be causing it? I get the same audio skips just with Giga piano. If I measure with Rex Test my drives are responding like they\'re only getting 33 throughput. That\'s the only thing I can figure is it\'s a disk reading issue. I\'ve changed buffers, I\'ve got EVERYTHING disabled, and I just can\'t get it to work. Am I nuts? I guess this is what I get for preaching Mac all these years and then trying to learn windows.... my worst nightmares all come true images/icons/frown.gif I guess I just give up. I\"m ready to put this whole thing on Ebay and buy a JV 5080... at least I know how to run it.

Composer dude, you\'ve done everything anyone could dream of to help me, and we can\'t fix it.... this is about to make me suicidal.... any hope at all? could it be a disfunctional mobo, or audio card? Any more possible options? Thanks anyway for all the help... I guess maybe let\'s try to figure out this HD issue....

[composer22]

I don\'t have teh same mobo but the same chip set

My Mobo is INTEL 850GB 1.8mz so we are close

Honestly, its got to be something very simple. Really. GO BUY a quality cable! Does the IDE board have any switch setting?

Is your POST TEST configured on boot? Do you get any error messages from BIOS?

But yes, I believe its NOT recognizing your hard drive speed...maybe you have a faulty hard drive controler OR cable...Really I would try the onboard IDE controller instead of your card.

It\'s difficult to do this long distance.

[composer22]

Something else to try...

\"I don\'t know if this will help or not, but I was getting a similar message just trying to load the Giga Piano -- along with clicks and pops on playback.
My solution turned out to be opening the gigs in the GS Editor and then saving them with version two info (automatic). I\'m pretty sure I had already done this in Win98. \"

and moving the file to your otehr drive and seeing if you get the same problem may isolate it.

still think its your drive of course!

[J. Whaley]

did you read that win2k guide you sent me? There\'s a place where he talks about creating in the registry an file called \"enableudma66\"..... remember that? Well, I can\'t get mine to read \"Decimal\". I keep changing it, but it keeps reverting to \"hexadecimal\". Dude\'s guide said that was the only way to enable the DMA 66. Said win 2k automatically reverts to 33... know anything about this?

[J. Whaley]

Do you think it could be the Delta Card? A friend seems to think it might be the MIDI coming through the Delta..... how\'s yours set up? Do you have seperate MIDI I/O or built on Audio card?

[composer22]

No its not your sound card

1) try the patch

\"Win2K requires a “fix” to operate in DMA-5 mode (100 ATA drives). You can obtain this on the Microsoft sight at http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/release.asp?ReleaseID=22161. (\"http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/release.asp?ReleaseID=22161.\") \"

2) Now...did you add it to thr right place in the tree? Should be under 0000

\"Click on Edit > New and create a new DWORD Value, call it \"EnableUDMA66\" (no quotes), click in outside area to see if it is labeled right then right-click on it, go to modify and type 1 in the Decimal box to (select Decimal not hexadecimal) enable ATA/66 (UDMA/66) support. To disable it, change the Decimal value to 0, or delete the \"EnableUDMA66\" Value altogether.
Reboot when done.\"

Ok, if this is set to 1 HEX it will be just as good. NEVER 0 else you are setting it to 33!

However, you must make sure its in teh RIGHT place in this TREE

\"To activate the ATA/66 (UDMA/66) setting, you need to go to Start > Run – Type Regedit : Goto :

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\System\\CurrentControlSet\\Con trol\\Class\\{4D36E96A-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\\0000

Note that the \"0000\" key above might show as \"0001\", \"0002\" or \"0003\" on your machine, depending on your particular hardware settings. Select the key appropriate for your Bus Master IDE controller. \"

NOT primary or secondary controller

Is it in teh correct place? When you click on the 0000 entry it should display to the right

DWORD is important! If you created it wrong simply delete this KEY and add it again

you should efinately reread all this stuff...

Do you have a hot mail account and microsoft messager? I may be able to discuss online

[J. Whaley]

I have AOL IM on my mac. Screen name is Nappymusic. Or we could get on the Northernsounds live chat.

Okay, I\'ve got the registry changed in the correct tree, but I have 0000,0001,0002,0003,0004,0005 So how do I know which is which?

[J. Whaley]

I\'ve tried to install that patch twice but it will only work on service pack 1... I have pack 2......

[J. Whaley]

How can I test throughout? I may be fine, I\'m just not sure.

Rextest shows me running slower then I should be, but that doesn\'t mean it\'s right

[J. Whaley]

Hey Composer, thanks so much for the help. I\'m gonna head to bed now. Central time. I\'m gonna try a new cable tomorrow and I may get another audio card from someone and just make sure that\'s not the problem.... It really is getting better... just not right yet images/icons/frown.gif The good news is the hickups are getting further and further apart with each tweak, so I think we\'ll hit it one of these times. Again, I really appreciate the help. Have a great night and maybe I\'ll see you tomorrow. If you wanna chat I can get hotmail or something. I\'m working from a mac though so I don\'t think Windows messenger would work. later

[composer22]

Bus Master IDE controller will be in one of the keys to teh right when you click on \"0000\" It shoudl be displayed. However, if you look at the others...

0001 ill bet displays primary controller
0002 secondary
0003 is your external HD card?

Just for kicks (if adding the key entry to 0000 didnt work), press 0003 (if it is your ext hard drive card) and add teh key to the right..the UDMA entry and mark it 1.

I shouldnt hurt anything to add it there. If something will read it, it will, else it will be ignored...dont forget to reboot for the setting to take effect,

To tell if it is working on not, you need to goto controlpanel/system/hardware/device manager/

click on IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers

then click on each of the contrullers uner here

tehre should be an advanced setting tab on the primary, secondary or whatever else is in this cue

also look at the SCSI settings to see if they show anything (if you have SCSI displayed)

If the prime/secondary show anything enabled or controllable, you might concider putting your drive on the onboard IDE.

[seclusion]

J.W.
If you have a few $$ laying around..
I run a 3ware raid card running 0 with 2 ide drives. You can do the same with scsi drives.. The OS sees the 2 drives as 1 big one, and info gets written to both instead of hammering one drive. Get the identical drive you have for the audio/sample drive. You\'d have to format it over again(Not the c:\\ drive though).
All my worries went away when I did this in both my dedicated giga system and logic system.
My buffers are set to the lowest setting they have on my 2408\'s (64). Damn near 0 latency.
I\'ve had this running since aug and haven\'t had the slightest glitch since.
Just might save you some hassles trying to figure out what to put where..
Do you have a CDrom/RW in your ide chain for the audio/sample drive?
Bri images/icons/tongue.gif

[composer22]

He doesnt really need to throw more hw money at the thing...its something simple, and I don\'t believe he has tried his onboard IDE\'s. really, prolly this or another switch setting, or the cable.

Raid is nice...but 2 gigs of RAM is better! Sorry, personal needs creeped in...=)

[J. Whaley]

actually composer, I\'ve taken the IDE controller card out, I\'m running off the MOBO. Right now I\'ve literally taken everything out but the bare bones, that\'s why I asked if it might be the audio card. I found a MOBO utility that shows a few extra specs. It shows me running ATA 100, and verifies that my cable is 80 wire. But I\'m gonna go get a new cable just to try it. All drives are on a cable of their own, no CDR\'s in the bunch. In fact, right now I\'ve only got my C drive connected, and my audio card and video card installed. That\'s it. I\'m seeing marked improvement. I can play Giga Piano for about 3 mintues without pop now, as oppose to what was about every 30 seconds. With the full string settings the pops are still too frequent , but they\'re getting softer and less obvious. I think what\'s happening, and I could be wrong, but it sounds like it\'ll be playing the samples, let\'s say 10 at a time, and then suddenly drop 4 of them and pop at that moment, but then just retrigger them. It\'s wierd for sure.

I can\'t afford a RAID config at this point, plus I don\'t htink I have to have it. I should be able to make what I got work.

OKay, couple thoughts....
I have the most recent Bios and MOBO drivers, but could there be something I didn\'t catch and install?

I have most recent M-audio drivers...

Could my HD\'s be the issue? would a re-format help? For my sample drive I have a 100 gig Wester Digital that is partitioned as 2 50 gigs..... should I make it all one big drive? Even though the samples I\'ve been playing have all been off the same partition so the stylys shouldn\'t be going nuts finding them....

Could my MOBO be deffective? When we got it the battery was dead, and we replaced it. Is it possible the board itself was damaged somehow? It\'s all nuts but there\'s got to be an answer! But we\'ll find it images/icons/smile.gif

[composer22]

actually composer, I\'ve taken the IDE controller card out, I\'m running off the MOBO. Right now I\'ve literally taken everything out but the bare bones, that\'s why I asked if it might be the audio card.

<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Yes this is the best way to isolate the problem.


I found a MOBO utility that shows a few extra specs. It shows me running ATA 100, and verifies that my cable is 80 wire. But I\'m gonna go get a new cable just to try it. All drives are on a cable of their own, no CDR\'s in the bunch. In fact, right now I\'ve only got my C drive connected, and my audio card and video card installed. That\'s it.

<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hopefully NO network either...


I\'m seeing marked improvement. I can play Giga Piano for about 3 mintues without pop now, as oppose to what was about every 30 seconds. With the full string settings the pops are still too frequent , but they\'re getting softer and less obvious. I think what\'s happening, and I could be wrong, but it sounds like it\'ll be playing the samples, let\'s say 10 at a time, and then suddenly drop 4 of them and pop at that moment, but then just retrigger them. It\'s wierd for sure.

<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Is your polyphony set as high as possible? Check to be sure and watch it for the drops...

Also, given these are all stereo samples, you may just be pushing the limit, although Gigapiano tells us otehrwise...

Also, yo can take a risk and download the 2.52.06 patch from Tascam to see if that works



I can\'t afford a RAID config at this point, plus I don\'t htink I have to have it. I should be able to make what I got work.

<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I agree...and you are making progress



OKay, couple thoughts....
I have the most recent Bios and MOBO drivers, but could there be something I didn\'t catch and install? I have most recent M-audio drivers...

<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">The bios flash should not be a problem, however, you may not have things set optimally, especially display...

Again I would play around with the M-Audio buffer settings in your sound setup to see if makes any difference...



Could my HD\'s be the issue? would a re-format help? For my sample drive I have a 100 gig Wester Digital that is partitioned as 2 50 gigs..... should I make it all one big drive?

<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">well, you said its being recognized as 100, which is great!. You can try and use a better cable but not sure if it will work. If you are truly at a 100 level, your software would show UDMA-5.

The advantages of using one partition is that the sounds can be put on the fastest part of teh platters. However, I use 10 gig increments, so they can be optimized easier and managed. The important thing is the cluster size



Could my MOBO be deffective? When we got it the battery was dead, and we replaced it. Is it possible the board itself was damaged somehow? It\'s all nuts but there\'s got to be an answer! But we\'ll find it images/icons/smile.gif <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">You should enable POST error reporting in your bios and check for error messages when you boot. Doesn\'t sound like a problem though...sounds like a problems with buffering and interrupt/timeslicing, which indicates 1) too many background tasks are requesting info from the processor 2) buffers aren\'t large or small enuf. This could be in any device - video, disk or sound...or network

[J. Whaley]

where is it I look for background tasks? And when I find them how do I disable them?

[composer22]

Originally posted by J. Whaley:
where is it I look for background tasks? And when I find them how do I disable them?<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">services.msc will allow you to set and remove background services. Set to Manual or Disable -- see optimizaton pages on what and what not to disable.

another toy:

compmgmt.msc

and look at the service application section

see if INDEXING is on the giga drive drive you have.

under system information/software ebnvironment/drivers shows drivers that are loaded

under system information/software ebnvironment/running tasks shows tasks that are running

* under controlpanel/system/advanced/performance - set the bacground task optimization SW ON.

see if that works any...

* clicking start button/programs/startup will also show you apps that are running at startup

* cntrl-alt-del and goto taskmanager click processes anbd shoudl show background tasks

* regedit under
HKLM/software/microsoft/windows/current version/run

are startup applications. Some can be disabled or removed

drivers are a different story

Basically:
System Services
Startup Apps in your Start Menu
RUN= commands in your Registry
INDEX on drives and such

AGAIN, pleay with teh buffer setting on your soundcard