how much to ask to compose a song for a company ?

[lkthomas]

hey all, my friend are going to ask me to compose a song ( 2-3mins ), how much should I ask to compose this song for them ? Thanks.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Work for hire? What's the end-use? Is there a back end?
If it's an outright buyout, and the company is going to use it extensively, you want to get a premium.

This is complicated stuff. If you fill in some details of what's involved, and what the likely uses of the music are, then it will be easier to help.

[lkthomas]

I think they are going to use it as "company song" forever, and I think I just use plain piano solo on that, so nothing more complex instrument involved, how much should I charge them ? Thanks.

[aplanchard]

I think they are going to use it as "company song" forever, and I think I just use plain piano solo on that, so nothing more complex instrument involved, how much should I charge them ? Thanks.


How big is the company (Fortune 500?; local/national/international market?; Usage on TV, radio, web, industrials?). Gotta know this type of stuff to really give an informed answer. in addition, you should address Bruces's inquiries point-by-point as well. Back-end income allows you to be more flexible with pricing if that is an issue.

[Bela D Media]

I composed for Verizon in 2001. 30 second audio track with sound design for splash page and radio spot. They hold the rights. Bill to them was $2,500.00.

Sound Design work on 60 second radio spot for MBNA Bank of America = $1,500.00

The bigger the company the more you shoud charge, IMO!

DELAWARE has it's advantages.
Delaware is the corporate capital! Many banks and pharmaceutical companies.

[lkthomas]

1000Stuff in China, 20Stuff in Hong Kong, and it is not showing Ads on TV/Radio, how much should I charge by ?
should I charge more if the client request for orchestra rather than piano solo ? ( the song is on piano solo now )
it's around 2-3mins long, hmmm
Thanks for the comment, this is my first time to charge people for music.

[lkthomas]

no one reply ?

[Hudson]

Several people have already asked you for more specific details regarding the job, but you don't sound like you even know what the details are.

You need to get yourself an agent or entertainment lawyer to handle the negotiation unless you don't mind potentially short changing yourself, because you sound way in over your head.
-Hudson


no one reply ?

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Answer the questions I asked you, and I'll try to advise you.

If you don't understand what I am asking, just get the conversation started with as much information as you have.

What everyone is trying to tell you is that you are asking for a simple answer to a very complicated question. Depending upon the circumstances, you might need to charge anywhere from $3000 to $30,000. Depending upon the back end, that gets adjusted. Depending upon who retains rights, and what sort of broadcast potential is there, that gets adjusted.

What Hudson is saying may be right. If you are not understanding any of these questions we're asking, you NEED an entertainment attorney to cut this deal for you. Otherwise, you are going to screw yourself.

[Theodor]

Tell them 900-1000$ for 1 minute .

The important thing is that it's your first job and you will get good credit for doing it .

In the future you can say "I made a theme for that company" which is important. Don't stress too much over cash

[FredProgGH]

Also, sometimes it's easier to just ask "What's your budget??" That way you don't throw out a figure that just scares them away right out of the gate, or low-ball so badly you hose yourself.

[Theodor]

Also, sometimes it's easier to just ask "What's your budget??" That way you don't throw out a figure that just scares them away right out of the gate, or low-ball so badly you hose yourself.

Hehehe , that's true Fred
But even if you scare them , you can unscare them by lowering the price :)

[FredProgGH]

Hehehe , that's true Fred
But even if you scare them , you can unscare them by lowering the price :)
True, but if you do that be sure to come off as generous and sympathetic, not desperate... :D :D

[lkthomas]

hmmmm, is that normal to charge 900USD for 1mins of song ? hmmmm, I will consider this plan, Thanks :)

[A_Sapp]

hmmmm, is that normal to charge 900USD for 1mins of song ? hmmmm, I will consider this plan, Thanks :)
Nein.

[christopher]

Nein.

... hmm, if lkthomas is from Germany (I think he is Asian) there are a couple of people here to help with the language barrier...

Maybe he should write where he is from and somebody can jump in...

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Seems so. Either that, or he's just wishing to remain blissfully unaware of the potential for screwing himself.

The problem is that as more people gain production expertise without "coming up" in the business, and make lowball deals (not knowing any better), they dont just hurt themselves, they hurt the guy who comes along next.

[cmrick]

The problem is that as more people gain production expertise without "coming up" in the business, and make lowball deals (not knowing any better), they dont just hurt themselves, they hurt the guy who comes along next.

Bingo.

[Hudson]

As is usually the case with Bruce's comments, I couldn't have said it any better. Someone also mentioned "oh, it's your first gig, just take whatever they offer and be happy with the credit." Well, that's terrible advice, especially if you have any hopes of maintaining a long term relationship with this particular company. It's all about perceived value.

If you lowball them on the first project, not only are you screwing yourself out of the intial $$$, but you've also set a precedent for a low rate on future projects. If you have a pistol handy, just shoot yourself in the foot now and get it over with.

Then again, nothing teaches us better than making mistakes...huge, costly mistakes...so if you wanna take the newbie approach and be perfectly content jumping into the negotiating ocean with concrete blocks around your neck, power to ya. Live and learn.
-Hudson


Seems so. Either that, or he's just wishing to remain blissfully unaware of the potential for screwing himself.

The problem is that as more people gain production expertise without "coming up" in the business, and make lowball deals (not knowing any better), they dont just hurt themselves, they hurt the guy who comes along next.

[midphase]

My answer is always the same and it's very simple:

Ask for as much as you think you can get out of them and still get the gig (that is assuming you want the gig).

[Tokyo Joe]

Interesting discussion and all the advice here is applicable to any business - be it music, web production and so on. Plucking a figure out of the air is probably the worst thing you could do. You have to balance the cost of your time and experience versus the budget available.

There is always going to be someone who can provide a service cheaper than you can but do they have your skillset and experience? The art is to educate the client, to lay out all the benefits he'll recieve if he hires you as opposed to hiring some kid who'll do it for $100.

[Theodor]

This is where i got my "900$" figure and it stuck to me. It explains a few things.

This site is "fatman's" , he composed the music for the 7nth Guest .

Fat Man (http://www.fatman.com/compose.htm#5)

Scroll to bottom of page and see his charge rates . Might be helpful for future reference .

I also read about this guy ( other page ) that charged 500$ for a 3 second radio jingle - and the discussion also said he could have charged 1 $ everytime the theme was played... and get heaps ;)

[cmrick]

This is where i got my "900$" figure and it stuck to me. It explains a few things.

This site is "fatman's" , he composed the music for the 7nth Guest .

Fat Man (http://www.fatman.com/compose.htm#5)

Scroll to bottom of page and see his charge rates . Might be helpful for future reference .

I also read about this guy ( other page ) that charged 500$ for a 3 second radio jingle - and the discussion also said he could have charged 1 $ everytime the theme was played... and get heaps ;)


Game music is slightly different depending on how the contract is structured because there are currently no broadcast rights. You're selling your music outright for use in one SKU and retain ancillary rights if it is used in a soundtrack release, movie trailer, etc...

The gist is that it is more complicated than just saying "I"ll take $800 per minute of music" and I'm sure George (The Fatman) has all these details covered in his contracts.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Exactly. I compose music for lots of PBS educational shows...hundreds to date. The initial payment is moderate...not cheap, but less than what I'd charge for a simple buyout. The back end fills in the rest. If the show performs well, I do much better than "X number of dollars per minute." Much much. Even on the worst performers.

So, it's all relative to the deal. You can't separate it and just assign a raw "price" without all the other information being in place. At least not if you want to continue making noise when you fart.

[lkthomas]

nono, just too busy man, and I did talk to the client, they want the price that could let them do whatever they want ( simily they just paid and do everything they want ), I am wondering that should I charge a lot more for this kind of license...

[lkthomas]

hmmm, how much do you charge for 1year usage ?