Should Gigastudio 3 use copy protection?

[RedWizard]

This topic has been discussed long time ago, but now with Gigastudio 3 now finally out. I was wondering if people thought Tascam should now move into the copy protection realm so that developers return?

Is it a good idea or is it too late or should Giga remain an open system regardless?

I am not advocating any side here. I just think it's a very interesting discussion for developers, users and the future of sampling.

[midphase]

I believe that the issue of developers returning is a bit moot now. You see, people look for solutions when they have a problem, not when they don't.

Developer's problem was piracy, they solicited Tascam's help, Tascam opted not to go down that path (partially at the very vocal uproar from end users), and developers found another solution. If Tascam would all of a sudden decide to implement copy protection into GS3, that would not necessarily bring the developers back since they have already found a solution to their issues and have no real need to switch.

The only thing that will bring developers back to the GS3 platform is if there is a big chunk of the market share there. I really don't know what the figures are concerning registered user numbers with GS3.

[Hudson]

This is one of those topics that has been done to death, a painful bloody death, 100 times over. Let's talk about daisies for a change. Aren't they pretty? Me likey pretty things...
-Hudson

[Martin Hines]

I am buying ALL of the new GS3 libraries, and lack of copy protection on the sample libraries is part of the reason I support the Giga platform.

[Brian2112]

I am buying ALL of the new GS3 libraries, and lack of copy protection on the sample libraries is part of the reason I support the Giga platform.Exactly.
While I definitely understand the need for copy protection as a deterrent, working with tools that are more flexible and allow backing up your data is a more professional environment (IMHO). If Giga 3 really takes off, I am sure that developers will jump on it. And this might have the desirable effect of negating the current trend towards “locked box” libraries. (at least until an unobtrusive protection scheme can be found)
...2112

[midphase]

While I definitely understand the need for copy protection as a deterrent, working with tools that are more flexible and allow backing up your data is a more professional environment (IMHO). If Giga 3 really takes off, I am sure that developers will jump on it. And this might have the desirable effect of negating the current trend towards “locked box” libraries. (at least until an unobtrusive protection scheme can be found)



Actually it's funny you say that. I swear about a year ago I was saying the very same thing, and if you do a search on my posts you might actually find a very similar wording coming from me.

Now, call me a flip flopper, but I have found that after using those copy protected tools, none of my general needs have been reduced. I can back up my data quite easily, and change and save my programs the way I always have done on other, unprotected platforms. I am of course talking about the Native Instruments based libraries. I find those to be quite good at letting me change the things that I need to change. It seems to me that many that denounce self-contained libraries have not actually used them.

[Houston Haynes]

I agree on the NI based libraries (using Kontakt), and feel the same way about HALion3's new format. I'm able to drill into "protected" pieces of content and edit away and save the new fxb and fxp files at will. Since I have my library and media drives on a scheduled, automated backup, I don't have to worry about ensuring that my work is preserved - as it's protected as well as any other asset in my virtual studio with Dantz Retrospect.

The "uproar" about copy protection on this board was much ado about nothing - and amounted to a really, really bad case of "wag the dog". Between that and the long, long, long time that GS3 took in getting to market, they've lost an incredible amount of marketshare on both the supply and demand side of the equation. Bravo to NI for capitalizing on the opportunity, with honorable mention to HALion for coming late to the party.

[andyt]

I fear many developers will shy away from GS3 becuase of the lack of CP. In my worst scenrios I fear the base will just continue to erode.

I think Tascam should have implemented OPTIONAL copy protection. If library developers wanted it, they could have set some some flag that would have implemented it.

Developers could have sold two versions of their libraries: Copy Protected versions throughthe mass retail outlets. For professionals who want to be able to tweak at the lowest levels ... they could sell special un-protected versions, I dunno, water marked at a special prioce to reflect the openess and extra process to watermark.


(Whether COPY PROTECTION works or not, is self-evidently debatable: we debate it. BUT that some developers want the reality / perception of it is a FACT.)

There are also libraries that are just targetted at pro-sumers of course ... who want an integrated player just to simplify things for the customer.



Is there anything to stop Tascam doing the same as NI. Offering a slimmed down version of GigaStudio similar to Kompakt, and tied to a specific library and only that library?

I think TASCAM should be addressing romplers as a strategic challenge, and do need to formulate some sort of respone ... not just ignore it.

[Martin Hines]

The "uproar" about copy protection on this board was much ado about nothing - and amounted to a really, really bad case of "wag the dog"
It would be interesting to see how people's view of copy protected sample libraries might change if some of these companies went out of business, or if a new "next generation sampler" is developed.

I understand that companies such as NI would release some type of "general authorization tool" if they ever went bankrupt, but one would still be forced to use those sample libraries within that sampler.

I assume most people who are now using Kontakt or Halion probably had some "good" sample libraries in GIGA format which they imported into these other samplers. If GIGA wasn't an open sample library format, that couldn't have been possible.

[SCARBEE]

Hey,

As sampling has improved with bigger and even more natural sounding instruments have been released we have unfortunately seen products - both commercial and "free" that have used our samples to create their products.

Further more bandwidt and internet speed becomes faster each day and...moral is going the opposite direction in company with the economic crisis.

So I welcome all protection now - including dongles which I have learned to live with and are practical when re-installing..

I don't think un-protected sample libraries will have a future for pro-companies.

I personally - as a user - regret this development, but as a producer I really don't see any other way than to protect our work.

From ALL sources I hear the same speech that companies increases their sales dramatically with protection. It's not bogus - believe me.

[Theodor]

If more protection means more libraries beeing available for Giga 3 , why not ?
I guess protection harms nobody , it's thar "licence for one computer" thing that pisses me off the most .

"you can use your Midi keyboard as much as you want, but only on one computer , also , no one else is allowed to play with it; tell your brother to buy his own keyboard" :p

[Rich Pell]

Hey,

I don't think un-protected sample libraries will have a future for pro-companies.

I personally - as a user - regret this development, but as a producer I really don't see any other way than to protect our work.

From ALL sources I hear the same speech that companies increases their sales dramatically with protection. It's not bogus - believe me.

Of course, Because its more inconvienent for people to trade CP`d libs. Not off P2P sites, but just casually amongst friends. "Hey can i borrow that..No, cause then I have to forfiet one of my registrations" Etc. etc...
Even if your company deters 10% of casual trading this way that`s a big sales difference. Of course on the on the end it can be a hassle for the user, and who knows how long some companies and developers are gonna be around to keep your product working..Rich

[Ed]

Let's talk about daisies for a change. Aren't they pretty? Me likey pretty things...
-Hudson

Actually it's funny you say that. I swear about a year ago I was saying the very same thing, and if you do a search on my posts you might actually find a very similar wording coming from me.

...

Ed

[Bruce A. Richardson]

It is very interesting that people ignore the fact that these "protected" products gained what market share they have piggybacking on UNPROTECTED Giga libraries.

Thanks for pointing that out, Martin.

Interesting, too, that this mythical "flight" from the Giga platform is in fact, nonexistent. Developers old and new are creating some pretty exciting products.

Also "interesting".....attempts to speak with authority about market share, with no actual knowledge of what sales (or profit margins or corporate health) specifics truly exist.

This is a thread about nothing. Thank your lucky stars, though, that Tascam saw fit to stick to its mission--making a SAMPLER. The GigaStudio license you buy is the same license anyone buys. It's a sampler.

[XanaX]

It is very interesting that people ignore the fact that these "protected" products gained what market share they have piggybacking on UNPROTECTED Giga libraries.


Not sure what you mean.
Please elaborate.

[Brian2112]

Not sure what you mean.
Please elaborate.I can't speak for Bruce but I think he means this: Some of the more successful developers initially made Giga libraries that were unprotected (for the most part). They made at least enough money (and gained enough market share) to finance (i.e. get a licence) a switch to other platforms that allowed severe protection. Also the main features of a lot of the other samplers is Giga import. Without that, it could be argued , they (the other samplers) never would have gotten off the ground. That is my understanding. I could be wrong.

[midphase]

I assume most people who are now using Kontakt or Halion probably had some "good" sample libraries in GIGA format which they imported into these other samplers. If GIGA wasn't an open sample library format, that couldn't have been possible.


Yeah, one could make the argument that samples are essentially software and as such they are bound to have a somewhat limited lifespan. I own tons of apps. that I can't use anymore because they won't run on OS X. Just recently Bitheadz went out of business and now I'm stuck with lots of Unity format files that I can't access (until Garth makes a Translator solution at least) because I can't reauthorize them now that the company is gone. This is indeed the nature of the beast until someone comes up with a universal format which of course will never happen.

We're definitely at the mercy of the stability and lifespan of companies like NI, but I also suspect that at some point (especially should such companies call it quits), someone would devise a method of translating the sample data into a new format.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Yes, Brain, that's essentially what I meant.

Kays, I would differ on sampleware being a form of "software" in the manner (eventual "forced" obsolescence) you describe. Sampleware usually is sold under a lifetime, nontransferrable license.

Regardless, I am not going to re-energize a mother of all debates thread. I hope we can all agree that choice is good, everyone has many choices in the matter, and the sky will not fall.

Some of the upcoming new development (from old and new third-party developers) for Giga 3 is really outstanding. Far surpassing the proof-of-concept hints you get in the bundled content. Life is good. Their sales (Giga 3) are beyond expectation...even my very optimistic expectations. Don't ask...I can't tell. Suffice to say, the market is there, and it WILL be filled--if not by every producer, than by someone bright enough to see the money on the table and to make a go for it.

[lumpyhed]

The one thing about CP'ed stuff is convience. Take Gold & Opus for instance.

With Opus being in giga format, you already need to go buy a separate sampler to buy it, and then unless you are prepared to do some fiddling you really need a separate box for it in order to keep Giga happy.

With Gold on the other hand, you buy/install, load up your sequencer and the plugin is there ready to roll. Of course you need to authorise it but you can get on with using straight way for a few days at least.

I think that convience aspect really helps to sell them, not neccesarily the CP that prevents personal sharing IMHO.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

I think that convience aspect really helps to sell them, not neccesarily the CP that prevents personal sharing IMHO.

DING DING DING DING DING DING...give that man a cigar.

We touched on this, literally years ago. The "heat" got so intense, it was kindly "suggested" by our hosts that we get off the subject.

But absolutely, positively, the numbers for a sample library, vs. a "rompler" are going to be different. Your potential market is 100% of DAW owners, vs., 100% of given-sampler owners.

This is why it gets completely wacky to start talking about market share comparisons, etc. Unless you're going to analyze the numbers against all variables, it's pointless. Unless you can actually GET the sales numbers (and very few people can), it's pointless. Unless you take apart the cost/return ratios, it's pointless.