Giga Users using DP or PTools

[SteveHanlon]

I know this isn\'t the forum for Digital performer or Pro Tools. I\'m about to make the jump from PC to Mac and these two sequencers are my choices.

Could I have some private email contact with any Giga users of these sequencers? I just got a couple questions.

You can email me at rshanlon2@yahoo.com with
\'Sequencers\' in the subject line.

Thanks. images/icons/wink.gif

[digitalc]

I use Giga160 with Digital Performer. What would you like to know?

[SteveHanlon]

digitalC, thanks for replying.

Just curious what kind of performance one can get out of DP with a dual 1Ghz interms of track count, plug-ins (primarily MAS)?

Also, wondering how DP is faring with the new Mac OS X (Jaguar?)

And lastly, how one is integrating Giga PC with the Mac in terms of connections.

Also, any opinions of the firewire 828\'s mic preamps?

Thanks for any help you can give.

[Runyon]

Marty,

I use Pro-Tools and Logic on the Mac. One thing to keep in mind is that Pro-Tools is really not a sequencer. It has midi functionality, but it is just basic.

The other thing to remember is that you have to use Digidesign hardware to run Pro-Tools. (you can run the Pro-Tools free version with other hardware).

So if using Pro-Tools is going to be a staple for you, you MUST buy one of the Digidesign hardware interfaces. Can\'t get around that.

The benefit of using Logic instead of DP is that you can also buy the EXS24 sampler, which reads and plays Gigastudio samples. There are workarounds for DP, but you have to get a 3rd party softsampler like Unity.

Overall, the Mac and PC combo is an efficient way to go.

[peter269]

Originally posted by digitalc:
I use Giga160 with Digital Performer. What would you like to know?<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I\'d like to know which 8x8 MIDI interface you\'re using with the Mac and which 4x4 with Giga?

[madk]

I just set up this type of system this past weekend.
I am using DP on my Mac connected to a MOTU Express XT 8x8 Midi interface and a MOTU 828. I take four outs from the XT and send them to my USB Midiman 4x4. This will get the midi into GS and I send the audio out to the MOTU 828 via S/PDIF cable and the S/PDIF out on my Audiophile 2496 sound card on my PC sound card.

Long winded, but this setup has worked really well so far. DP handles the sequencing extremely well and I haven\'t even gotten a chance to jump into 90% of it yet.

DP3 is not OSX compatible yet...any day now.
With a Dual 1GHz system, you will get an absurd amount of audio tracks.
Integrating GS into DP is very easy if you understand the signal flow. Daily use is as simple as using an external sequencer.

[SteveHanlon]

Thanks guy for the replies.

To the guy who mentioned \'Logic\' as an option...well, I hear ya...It\'s got the EX sampler..sounds really great and a lot less complicated then a PC/Mac combo (esp. for the portable on the road set-up...just one Powerbook). Giga may sound great on it but it ain\'t using giga\'s full functionality. We\'ll see. Lots of choices.

The the one who mentioned ProTools basic midi functionalities....would one then rate DP a more in depth midi sequencer than PT? If so, why?

Makes complete sense madk. Are you using a portable laptop rig at all?

Since you have the 828, that would go into a Powerbook. Then the PC set up would have to be...ANOTHER laptop with another soundcard...then midi devices on each each...OH boy, it ain\'t very portable anymore? images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Oh, boy the day Giga gets to the Mac, there will be a mad dash by all those Mac users to stick to Mac-only set-ups.

OK...madk how would you rate the 828 mic preamps. Are they \'accurate\'...maybe even a little \'plain\' (like the Aark soundcard preamps) or...what? images/icons/tongue.gif

Thanks.

[peter269]

Originally posted by madk:
I just set up this type of system this past weekend.
I am using DP on my Mac connected to a MOTU Express XT 8x8 Midi interface and a MOTU 828. I take four outs from the XT and send them to my USB Midiman 4x4.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">For your MIDI Express, are you using USB or Serial? Also, when running from the MIDI Express into the MIDIMan USB 4x4, are you experiencing latency? Just asking because the folks at Nemesys consistently recommend not using USB going into GS, so I\'d be interested in your experience.

[Marsdy]

Originally posted by peter269:
</font><blockquote><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><hr /><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Originally posted by madk:
I just set up this type of system this past weekend.
I am using DP on my Mac connected to a MOTU Express XT 8x8 Midi interface and a MOTU 828. I take four outs from the XT and send them to my USB Midiman 4x4.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">For your MIDI Express, are you using USB or Serial? Also, when running from the MIDI Express into the MIDIMan USB 4x4, are you experiencing latency? Just asking because the folks at Nemesys consistently recommend not using USB going into GS, so I\'d be interested in your experience.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hi Peter

I\'m also using DP with a USB Midi Express XT.
I\'m running two Giga PCs and each have a Midiman Midisport 2x2. Latency is not great Midi wise. I know it\'s not at the Mac end as DP has this MIDI Time Stamping thing which is amazingly tight. Timing integrity, slop, jitter, whatever you want to call it are as good as it gets IMO.

Both PCs have RME Hammerfall DSP/Multiface audio interfaces. I have latency set to 1.5ms in the Hammerfall control panel and yet I STILL get some noticable latency via the Midisports. It\'s not a huge amount but enough to bother me compared to the tightness at the DP/Mac end.

Added to this are the dreaded \"Conexant Wavestream error \" crashes in XP which I believe are down to the Midiports. I don\'t consider them a good investment and I\'m looking for non USB alternatives.

Just my two pence :-)
Dave Marsden
http://www.gameaudio.com (\"http://www.gameaudio.com\")
UK

[Marsdy]

Hi Marty

Sorry I\'m a bit late on this.

\"Just curious what kind of performance one can get out of DP with a dual 1Ghz interms of track count, plug-ins (primarily MAS)?\"

A lot!!!! :-) DP is pretty clever about distributing plug-ins between the processors. The UI tends to get unresponsive with higher CPU loads though. 70 odd Bomb Factory compressors, massive numbers of Waves Ren comps and eqs are possible for example. In terms of track counts, I\'ve not really pushed the limits but I\'ve hit 80 tracks of 24 bit/44.1Khz easily and I bet it could go over a 100 tracks without problem.

\"Also, wondering how DP is faring with the new Mac OS X (Jaguar?)\"

DP doesn\'t support OSX although it is promised, I do have OSX on the same partition as DP and OS9 with no problems.
BTW NEWS FLASH Logic Audio is available for OSX as of today!!!!

\"And lastly, how one is integrating Giga PC with the Mac in terms of connections.\"

For Midi see my post to Peter above. Audio wise I have RME Hammerfall DSP/Multifaces for the Giga PCs going via balanced analog cable to a Yamaha 02R. The 02R connects to a MOTU 2408 on the Mac via TDIF.

\"Also, any opinions of the firewire 828\'s mic preamps?\"

OK is all! Not a huge amount of gain available.
I use a Focusrite Trackmaster with digital out as a front end to my MOTU 2408 and it\'s much better and very cost effective.

Hope this helps

Dave Marsden
http://www.gameaudio.com (\"http://www.gameaudio.com\")
UK

[SteveHanlon]

Thanks, Marsdy.

GOD, that\'s a lot of plug-ins running!!! AND WAVES which are super CPU hogs!!!!!

Great...sounds the dual processor is the way..I don\'t need 80 tracks for most of my work but if I can use a gob of plug-ins with 20-30 tracks, then that\'s my cup \'o tea.

Thanks for the honesty about the MOTU mic pres...I was worried about just \'OK\' quality. I wonder if the Mbox with it\'s Focusrite pres might be a better option (I\'m mainly thinking portable which is why I\'m looking for a soundcard that has decent micpreamps).

Has anyone heard if Motu is gonna be joining the plug-in sampler market as Logic has done?

[ed hamilton]

Marty,
The premier soft sampler at this point has to be Kontakt (after giga of course!)
The mac version is due out in the next few weeks.
The PC version is way better then esx, sampletank, halion etc etc.
And it will be MAS native.

Sorry I found this thread so late.
my rig is...
DP on PB ti 667 with rme multiface
Pro Tools HD3 on a 733 mac
Giga on a pIII 800

DP is great for Midi . Sucks for editing audio. I prefere PT in every way.

The plug in count for waves has gotten way better in the latest rev. Over double the amount of plugs in some cases. And they sound incredible.

Please ask any questions that may help.

ed

[SteveHanlon]

Thanks, Ed!

I am personally blown away by ProTools\' demos and the the Digistudio QuickTime demo.

I have been in touch with Magic Dave at Motu who has been keeping me hip to what DP can do compared to ProTools...and so far I have run into an audio editing feature that both can\'t do (doesn\'t mean there aren\'t...just I haven\'t run into any yet).

Because ProTools is limited to its hardware, I started to lean to DP on the Mac instead. But, I\'ve got time before I choose.

You are the FIRST to say that DP audio editing sucks. I would love to hear your scoop on what you don\'t like about DP features to edit audio versus ProTools\'.

This will help me out tremendously.

Also, any features about ProTools that you absolutely love.

Thanks a gigabytes. images/icons/grin.gif

[SteveHanlon]

Thanks, Ed!

I am personally blown away by ProTools\' demos and the the Digistudio QuickTime demo.

I have been in touch with Magic Dave at Motu who has been keeping me hip to what DP can do compared to ProTools...and so far I have not run into an audio editing feature that both can\'t do (doesn\'t mean there aren\'t any...just I haven\'t run into any yet).

Because ProTools is limited to its hardware, I started to lean toward DP on the Mac instead. But, I\'ve got time before I choose. So, the investigation starts.

You are the FIRST to say that DP audio editing sucks. I would love to hear your scoop on what you don\'t like about DP features to edit audio versus ProTools\'.

This will help me out tremendously.

Also, any features about ProTools that you absolutely love.

Thanks a gigabytes. images/icons/grin.gif

[Austin]

I use both all the time. I think in the audio realm, there is nothing you can\'t do with either platform. In MIDI land, PT is MUCH more limited in what you can do.

However, in my opinion the IMPLEMENTATION and the INTERFACE of how you mess with the audio is a more elegant solution than DP. AND the same for MIDI and DP.

Typically, I\'ll sequence in DP and burn audio tracks as I go. Then, when I am in overdub and/or mixing mode, I switch to PT (DP reads and writes PT-compatible files) and finish from there.

PLEASE NO WARS, GUYS!

History will tell you that DP started as a sequencing platform and PT sstarted as an audio platform. Now that they both do both, the waters ARE muddied, but they still seem to retain the strengths of their roots. HOWEVER, comparing each other on a cost/performance level, DP wins. I COULD easily stay in DP for the whole thing, and many high-end projects do, nowadays. DP\'s audio has progressed faster than PT\'s MIDI, so...

Don\'t know if that helps any

[tomhartman]

Originally posted by Runyon:
Marty,

I use Pro-Tools and Logic on the Mac. One thing to keep in mind is that Pro-Tools is really not a sequencer. It has midi functionality, but it is just basic.

<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Well, I\'d have to disagree. I sequence music everyday in Pro Tools without a problem. I used Performer and Logic for many years, and they are great, but when it gets down to it, Pro Tools\' sequencer will do what most people need to do in a sequencer...quantize, change velocity, select notes, transpose, give you a graphic display, give you an edit list display, etc. Step input, music notation and printing, and graduated tempo changes are the limitations, but not the practicalities of everyday sequencing.

I think Digi has been slow to add new features in the MIDI section, but with the next release I\'m sure we\'ll see improvements. But I have been glad to be working in one program rather than two for a long time now....

[Runyon]

Hi tomhartman,

Well, if Pro-Tools midi implementation works for you, then that is great. I\'d have to say that pro-tools is like a midi sequencer circa 1987.

The post manipulation of continuous controller data alone makes the more modern sequencers superior in this regard. But they can do so much more.

All of the big 3...Logic, Digital Performer, and CuBase are more manageable and creative to make today\'s music via midi.

It\'s not always necessary. Sometimes I record from a midi device straight to audio if it\'s a simple thing. A time saver. I do this most often in the production stage when I want to add some color of some sort. No need to record midi notes in many cases....just print it.

But for complicated things, it\'s best to use something other than Pro-Tools....just my opinion.

[tomhartman]

Originally posted by Runyon:
Hi tomhartman,

Well, if Pro-Tools midi implementation works for you, then that is great. I\'d have to say that pro-tools is like a midi sequencer circa 1987.

The post manipulation of continuous controller data alone makes the more modern sequencers superior in this regard. But they can do so much more.

All of the big 3...Logic, Digital Performer, and CuBase are more manageable and creative to make today\'s music via midi.

<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Yeah, would have to agree to disagree. I\'m in production non-stop daily on every kind of thing you can imagine from Korn style music to William-esgue symphonic stuff. Pro Tools hasn\'t slowed me down a bit. I don\'t do a lot of post tweaking with continuous controller data though, so maybe that\'s what I\'m missing. The few times I have I\'ve found it to be a very simple matter to manipulate the controller data graphically onscreen, just like I had to do in Performer and Logic..... images/icons/wink.gif

I do miss the notation features, of which I thought Logic was the best, and I miss the ability to pack folders and easily slide them around. If it wasn\'t such a nightmare running both programs at once I\'d use Logic again. I think the ultimate would be to cut all the tracks in Logic, then import them for mix and guitar and vocal overdubs in Pro Tools. Don\'t know how difficult that would be though...