new Gustav Holst mockup by Andy B

[mathis]

Have a look at the VSL website! It´s amazing!

[Gerard Salonga]

I just heard it....really great! Great programming, very musical interpretation....great mix, everything! If this doesn't sell more piles of VSL, I don't know what will. If I hadn't already bought it, this would have sealed the deal. Those epic horns are something else. I hope Andy can give some insight as to the patches used, how many computers, mixing method, etc. How long did it take to sequence it? Was this Giga 3 with Gigapulse? There was a sense of depth and power in that mix, especially on brass and winds...something that a lot of people felt was lacking in VSL. This had plenty of that LA scoring sound. Great reverb...not too much...just enough to get that sense of space. Congratulations Andy, and VSL. Really great stuff. Of course it all started with great notes, and great orchestration. Congrats again....put the right stuff in the right hands and that's what you get. :)

[JohnCarter]

Incredible mockup of a masterpiece ! ( we can see where James Horner gets his ideas :D)

Hey c'mon guys ! More comments !

[Not Dudley Simpson]

Once again, Andy has shown his great interpretive skills with VSL. His sample arranging judgements are tasteful and blindingly accurate. Like many others, I was nurtured on The Planets, and this is as good a reflection of Holst's orchestrational intentions and sheer verve as is possible to get with samples. In my opinion, Andy is one of the authentic VSL-user geniuses. You're born with it, and either you've got it or you haven't.

If Andy's monitoring here, I'd like to ask all the usual questions: how many computers, how long did it take, reverb, EQ, etc.

BUT... I hear brass mutes! Straight trumpet mutes. Where did they come from? I didn't think that VSL had gotten around to mutes yet.

Also, I love the background orchestra foley. :D Lately, I've been using the Bela Media free sounds, and they work very nicely on subconscious expectations. Sometimes they even fool me into thinking I've hired the RPO!

Cheers and luck to Andy and all
Heath

[EmmSee]

Excellent...
What a choice for a piece from "Planets", too. I listen to one of the LSO recordings of this all the time.

[FredProgGH]

[Joe Dirt]

Dang!!!!

[/Joe Dirt]

[andyt]

wow !

[Andy B]

Thanks guys for the comments. This was much harder for me to mock-up than the Debussy piece I did before, and it was mainly due to the fact that this piece is SO popular and so many people are very familiar wth it. I felt like there would be nowhere to hide! Anyway I'm really pleased that you like it.

The whole thing ran real time using Giga Studio 2.5 and Kontakt - G5 Dual 2.5, G4 Dual 1.25, G4 400, P4 3.0, P4 2.4. I used 3 instances of Altiverb, the Amsterdam Concertgebouw Hall as an overall effect, the Sydney Opera House Choir Stalls to give the Strings & Woodwinds a little depth and the Small Phillips Hall to add some distance to the Brass & Percussion. Sequenced on Digital Performer. I eventually had to render a handful of tracks to audio as neither of my PCs enjoyed having Kontakt running at the same time as Giga - but it's fine to work with - just the occassional pop. Obviously EQ was used, mainly to push instruments back fom the mic and finally the whole mix passed through a cheap Behringer Ultrafex II unit - I've had it for 8 years and I can't seem to be able to shake it!

"There was a sense of depth and power in that mix, especially on brass and winds...something that a lot of people felt was lacking in VSL. "

Thanks Gerard. This is something that I was eager to dismiss - the myth that the VSL brass sound weak and synthetic. The trumpet sounds amazing and I have to admit that I didn't fully realise this until working on this piece. It's the sheer amount of different articulations to choose from that makes it so convincing and there are only about 10 trumpet notes that are played legato, so it's not the performance tool with it's normal easy to astound tricks.

"BUT... I hear brass mutes! Straight trumpet mutes. Where did they come from? I didn't think that VSL had gotten around to mutes yet."

Hi Heath, they haven't yet. When listening back to it I often thought the same thing, mainly in the exchanges towards the beginning between the strings and brass, but Holst asked for unmuted and that's what went in. I think it's because the brass sounds wonderfully edgy and cutting.

Andy.

[kid-surf]

Amazing!

-pause-


But now what? Can you make money doing that?

Idunno, I'd rather hear some of his 'original' works... Well, I guess it helps sell the lib but most everyone has it already.... so?

Besides, if you compose for concerts do you really care to spend that much time on a mock-up (I'm assuming). I guess I'd rather listen to the 'real' Holst... (to me that negates the purpose for doing these mock-ups of classics. Yeah, I get that they're designed to show what the lib 'can' sound like playing 'great' works, but like I said, what concert composer tweaks their mock-up that hard? Maybe some do... ?)

And if you're a film composer do you care to mock up what you aren't getting paid for?


Not to try and take anything away from Andy, but, I just don't see what purpose these serve other than to show off ones 'programming skills'.... while that's cool and all, it seems like a big waste of time to me (mocking up stuff you didn't write -- unless you're some assistant).


i dunno, sometimes I get the feeling that people who use samples to write, get more caught up in 'programming/mix' than the actual piece of music, Like they're thinking "Wow, that was hard to, wonder how they tweaked that to "sound" so 'real'... It just seems like the "music" takes a back seat to programming/mix skills now a days....

Having said that, it was very impressive from a programming/mix standpoint. :D

And, yes... of coarse I'm envious :D , especially if he did that in two days.... but that's not really the point. :p

I know, I should have just said "Nice work"... :D

Now you guys can flame me... I don't have any stars left anyway....

Love

KID- :D

[kid-surf]

Andy --


I was typing while you were...

Let me ask you since you're here. ;)

How do you utilize a G5 2.5 and G4 dual 1.25? (I just bought a 2.5 and was panning to keep my dual 1.25 --- (plus 2x PC)


BTW --- what type of composer are you when you aren't doing these types of pieces? Just curious... as well, are you in Europe?

BTW-- I wasn't trying to be offensive to you specifically, I just felt like saying that. A general comment more or less...



KID-

[Andy B]

Amazing!

-pause-


But now what? Can you make money doing that?

Idunno, I'd rather hear some of his 'original' works... Well, I guess it helps sell the lib but most everyone has it already.... so?

Besides, if you compose for concerts do you really care to spend that much time on a mock-up (I'm assuming). I guess I'd rather listen to the 'real' Holst... (to me that negates the purpose for doing these mock-ups of classics. Yeah, I get that they're designed to show what the lib 'can' sound like playing 'great' works, but like I said, what concert composer tweaks their mock-up that hard? Maybe some do... ?)

And if you're a film composer do you care to mock up what you aren't getting paid for?


Not to try and take anything away from Andy, but, I just don't see what purpose these serve other than to show off ones 'programming skills'.... while that's cool and all, it seems like a big waste of time to me (mocking up stuff you didn't write -- unless you're some assistant).


i dunno, sometimes I get the feeling that people who use samples to write, get more caught up in 'programming/mix' than the actual piece of music, Like they're thinking "Wow, that was hard to, wonder how they tweaked that to "sound" so 'real'... It just seems like the "music" takes a back seat to programming/mix skills now a days....

Having said that, it was very impressive from a programming/mix standpoint. :D

And, yes... of coarse I'm envious :D , especially if he did that in two days.... but that's not really the point. :p

I know, I should have just said "Nice work"... :D

Now you guys can flame me... I don't have any stars left anyway....

Love

KID- :D

Hi Kid. Really good points. I earn my living from composing - mainly for British television. Herb from VSL asked me to do this mockup for the library - in short I did this for Herb, not me. So, as you might imagine, Herb makes it worth my while. Having said that, I learned so much doing the mockup. There's something about really having to deconstruct a piece that's so valuable.

Can people earn a living doing this stuff? I don't know either. I imagine it might be possible though. Think about how many thousands of unperformed scores there must be lying around the world. If you're a concert music composer, how much is it going to cost you to independently get one of your full scale orchestral works performed? I think an attractive alternative might be to ask someone to get pretty close to the real thing using samples. Only last week someone who's on this board asked if he could hire me to mockup a score he's working on - which unfortunately I'm too busy to do. With my composing work I obviously don't get the time to get it sounding as good as the Holst mockup and I've also had the benefit of having an orchestra to perform some of my work. BUT one day, maybe when the royalties begin to stack up and I get more time, I'll want to write music for me. Again, how am I going to convince my local symphony orchestra to perform my work without some serious cash? You might just be seeing some of my original work painstakingly mocked up.

Thanks,

Andy.

[kid-surf]

And "really good points" back to you... :) makes perfect sense...


Herb makes it worth my while. Having said that, I learned so much doing the mockup.

I see, well it's another way to get paid I suppose. ;) Cool! And, sure, that must be a great value to learn that way... didn't think of that.

Didn't think of the other situation you presented either... honestly, never crossed my mind. Good point...

Ok, so you crushed my position... :D But I'm glad I spouted off, now I have "another" perspective. I'll keep them in mind...


Thanks!

KID-

[kid-surf]

True Sharmy! :)

BTW-- now that I've got you, what do you think of my piece below (I don't mind if you slam it)? It's definitely not Holst... oh well :D Then again... no one else is Holst either. I just cheered myself up.. :D

KID-

[leogardini]

This is a great work...the mockup sounds good mainly because it´s very well orchestrated by a master used to deal with real players and intruments , and not computers , mixing and EQ...
...but of course Andy deserve all the credits for this , congrats Andy!!!

[Rich Pell]

:eek: :) Again, Nice work Andy. Thats a big piece, and the 1st time Ive liked the sound of VSL horns. Mostly Epic horns were they? Just as a side note to some of Kid-surfs comments (and not a criticism of them), I think in ways its harder to do convincing Classical mock-ups since everyone knows basically how they SHOULD sound. With our own original pieces theres alot more flexablility in terms of how the listener can perceive it . You really captured some of the essence Andy,excellent, Rich

[RickD]

Have a look at the VSL website! It´s amazing!

Sounds great<!> Andy, I see you have the G5 2.5. Could ya give me a quick review on how well this computer works, including a "computer fan" noise evaluation. I would like to use this computer for tracking, mixing, sequencing and sampling, along with my G4 dual 1 ghz and two pc's.

Thanks,
Rick

[synthnut]

Hi,
I'm new to the forum, and to GS and virtual instruments....Can someone please post a link to this arrangement ??..Thanks in advance....Sincerely, Jim

[falcon1]

Hi,
I'm new to the forum, and to GS and virtual instruments....Can someone please post a link to this arrangement ??..Thanks in advance....Sincerely, Jim

Synthnut, click here (http://www.vsl.co.at/english/demos/classics/Gustav_Holst/Planets_%2D_Jupiter%2C_the_bringer_of_jollity.htm# )

Btw. very good job Andy! However, it's close to the real thing but still not there. :)

[kid-surf]

Just as a side note to some of Kid-surfs comments (and not a criticism of them), I think in ways its harder to do convincing Classical mock-ups since everyone knows basically how they SHOULD sound. With our own original pieces theres alot more flexablility in terms of how the listener can perceive it.

Yeah, I agree Rich... :)

KID-

[FredProgGH]

Just my $.02...

I've only done two mock-ups (with GOS btw) but they are tremendous learning experiences. You have a standard of comparison for your work. Yes it is very satisfying to hear an original composition come alive with these tools, but it is also very pleasurable to hear one's own interpretation of a classic- to play conudctor, basically. It's an opportuinity I certainly never thought I would have!! For instance, if I had the time to waste I'd do a complete rendition of Petrouchka. It's a piece I've never heard a performance of that comformed completely to what I hear in my head as an interpretation. Boulez came the closest...

[kid-surf]

BTW---

Andy, you got any links to your original work... I'd like to check it out.


KID-

[synthnut]

Falcon,
Thanks for the link....I appreciate it ....Sincerely, Jim

Andy....WHOA !!......I'm new to the forum, and I continue to be in aw of the unbelieveable talent on this forum .... :) .....Sincerely, Jim

[Damon]

Wow!! Brilliant mockup Andy. Cheers to ya!;)

[Andy B]

Sounds great<!> Andy, I see you have the G5 2.5. Could ya give me a quick review on how well this computer works, including a "computer fan" noise evaluation. I would like to use this computer for tracking, mixing, sequencing and sampling, along with my G4 dual 1 ghz and two pc's.

Thanks,
Rick

Hi Rick,

I've also got a G4 Dual 1.25 and the fan on that is amazingly loud, so I was worried about the G5, but the good news is that I don't even know it's there most of the time. It's very quiet. I'm also pleased with the performance - I ran about 5 instances of Altiverb (no latency) and 2 of Kontakt for the Holst and it didn't even blink.

Kid asked:
"How do you utilize a G5 2.5 and G4 dual 1.25? (I just bought a 2.5 and was panning to keep my dual 1.25 --- (plus 2x PC)"

I run Kontakt inside V-Stack on my G4 1.25. V-Stack does work on a Mac, but feels very much like the first version that it is. It's linked to my G5 (as are all my other computers) with an RME HDSP 9652 card into a couple of MOTU 2408s in the G5 .

Hth.

Andy.

[RickD]

Hi Rick,

I've also got a G4 Dual 1.25 and the fan on that is amazingly loud, so I was worried about the G5, but the good news is that I don't even know it's there most of the time. It's very quiet. I'm also pleased with the performance - I ran about 5 instances of Altiverb (no latency) and 2 of Kontakt for the Holst and it didn't even blink.

Kid asked:
"How do you utilize a G5 2.5 and G4 dual 1.25? (I just bought a 2.5 and was panning to keep my dual 1.25 --- (plus 2x PC)"

I run Kontakt inside V-Stack on my G4 1.25. V-Stack does work on a Mac, but feels very much like the first version that it is. It's linked to my G5 (as are all my other computers) with an RME HDSP 9652 card into a couple of MOTU 2408s in the G5 .

Hth.

Andy.

Thanks Andy, that helps a lot!

Rick

[Bernard Asselin]

Amazing piece! It is an impressive setup of computer Andy, but that sounds reasonable for a composer like you.

Congrats!

Benny