Sax-a-ma-phones?

[jesshmusic]

Are there any plans in a future upgrade to add a sax section with a nice *classical* tone to the patch list? After reading the Treatise On Instrumentation by Berlioz and Strauss and seeing all the glowing things they thought the future held for the sax before jazz players got hold of it, I wanted to add a sax section to future orchestra pieces.

If anyone has ever heard a good classical sax player with that tone, it is truly GORGEOUS! Listen to the Ravel orchestration of Mussorgsky's "Pictures at an Exhibition.. The Castle", Bolero, etc. The best part about the saxes as a section is, much like the strings, uniformity of timbre from top to bottom. So if you can find some good classical players, I would at least add them to my orchestrations!

:D

[KevinKauai]

Several other (principally) French composers made good use of the saxophone in their works -- among them Jacques Ibert and Darius Milhaud. I think there definitely is a place in modern symphonic compositions for those colors, as well.

Initially, I misunderstood Gary early on in the days of discussing the Update and assumed that classical saxes would be coming with it; later, it was clarified that the Update would include no new samples but would be restricted to new and improved programming on the starter set. (And I guess you can't make saxes where there were none before!)

I would (personally) still pay extra for some symphonic alto and tenor sax "players" in my GPO!

:) my $0.02 ... KevinKauai

[benjamind]

From what I understand there is going to be a "Big Band" add-on for jazzy music composition, and I believe there will be at least five saxophones - the bass, baritone, tenor, alto and soprano saxophones. I believe they are looking at the possibility of adding a contrabass saxophone as well (also known as the Tubax), but I can't be sure if it will be included, but as for the other 5 saxes I am 99% sure as these 5 saxes are an integral part of the big band instrumentation, as are bugles, fludgels and cornets, and maybe fritzuels, and a few other brass instruments that I can't remember, I think a euphonium and some other jazz horns are being added as well. The fritzuel is like a small "piccolo" french horn that really produces an awesome sound.

Having 5 saxes to cover the whole range is going to be really nice.

As for a contrabass sax...well, GPO has a contrabass tuba...and yep, you guessed it, the tuba is a member of the brass family. I'm not 100% sure if the contrabass sax will make it into Big Band but if the GPO brass set is anything to go by I think it probably will.

[jesshmusic]

Hmmm. Big band saxes would never work in Orchestral music. The tone is totally different. If the classical saxophones were ever done, the whole set would have to be done, because I believe Adophe Sax's intention was for it to be another section in the orchestra.

.... Maybe someday. :)

[Garritan]

Did Someone say Sax-a-ma-phone? http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

http://www.garritan.com/images/ContrabassSax.jpg

[FredProgGH]

Hey- you did that in Photoshop!! Right?? :D

[DPDAN]

ha ha ha ha ha

[benjamind]

Hello Mr Garritan,

WOW! Now that thing is a BEAST!

And look who is playing it. Jay Easton! That guy is a well known saxophone player, and am told he is a genius when it comes to playing low range wind instruments, especially the saxes.

I'm so happy to see this little hint. Now I know for sure that a contrabass saxophone will be included in the Big Band package.

Any news on the bass and the piccolo (soprillo) saxophones? I just cannot wait until this thing is out.

It's only a matter of time and we'll see Big Band...I think Big Band will be focusing mainly on woodwind/brass instruments, which is a good thing since most of the attention will be paid to the quality of the sampling. I hope that these instruments will be chromatically sampled, even if it pushes up the price. To me chromatic sampling is well worth it, even if there is more effort required in testing the consistency of the attack/intonation of each chromatic sample.

Cheers,
Ben

[drdancm]

[QUOTE=jesshmusic]Are there any plans in a future upgrade to add a sax section with a nice *classical* tone to the patch list? After reading the [

If anyone has ever heard a good classical sax player with that tone, it is truly GORGEOUS! Listen to the Ravel orchestration of Mussorgsky's "Pictures at an Exhibition.. The Castle", Bolero, etc. The best part about the saxes as a section is, much like the strings, uniformity of timbre from top to bottom. So if you can find some good classical players, I would at least add them to my orchestrations!

Exactly my sentiments - for anyone who has not heard classical saxophones please understand that having heard pop and jazz saxophones is no substitute whatsoever. As much as I love a nice breathy tenor sound (Lucky Thompson, Ben Webster etc.) I must say that the classical sound of alto, tenor, soprano, sopranino, or baritone is ultra smooth, rich, round, and absolutely breathtaking.

This is something that would be very, very much desirable.

Thanks,

Dan

[Garritan]

Hey- you did that in Photoshop!! Right?? :D No..that's an actual unedited photo of a special Sax-a-ma-phone. http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

Gary

[ZeroZero]

As a sax player for the UK side of the pond the it's 'folk law' around here that there is no such thing as a successful virtual sax. The sound is so personal. To ask for this is to ask Gary to walk on water, so that's impossibl.... er, em (well he HAS done this before) ;)

There are so many variants, embrouchure, reed type strength, mouthpiece, alternative fingerings, sax type, overtones, subtones, not to mention breath control and tonguing techiniques. Its such a personal sound - so instinctive.
I wonder what is the best available? Anyone know?

[jesshmusic]

I think that's why the classical so is so different. It takes on a more standard timbre. One performer playing the solo in The Castle from Ravel's Pictures at an Exhibition should sound no different from another.

All instrumentalists believe their instrument cannot be syntesized... and they are right. Nothing will ever sound as good or real as the real thing.... RIGHTLY SO!! :D

I do believe they can be synthesized good enough to get an idea what my orchestrations will sound like on the real thing. And that is another reason I asked for the classical tone. It should be easier to synthesize than the jazz or pop tones.

I myself have only heard a couple guys really nail the classical sax tone, but I know it's out there. ;)

[Suntower]

I think a convincing -classical- sax can be done for simple things---probably as well as an oboe or clarinet.

I have -never- heard a jazz/rock/blues sax sample that didn't make me want to cover my ears---except in section stuff; I have KickAssBrass and you -can- get decent backgrounds with it.

Any additions to GPO would be great, I am sure. :)

---JC

[GDG]

Hey- you did that in Photoshop!! Right?? :D

Nope: see Jay Easton's Contrabass Sax page (http://lachesis.caltech.edu/jayeaston/galleries/sax_family/contrabass_page/contrabass_sax.html), or just type in http://www.jayeaston.com. :D

BTW, his CD "So Low" is full of excellent examples of classical sax.

Grant

[Garritan]

Grant,

Welcome to the GPO forum!

I have enjoyed visiting your www.contrabass.com website for sometime.

For those who don't know, Grant is a leading expert on contrabass and other instruments that cause seismic disturbances.

Gary Garritan

[benjamind]

Check out the Soprillo Saxophone. It's an octave higher than the Soprano, it's a piccolo saxophone.

http://www.pro-music-news.com/html/11/e90702ko.htm

I'm hoping that Garritan samples this one too. It would be a nice addition to the sax range. I'd also like to see the Bass, which I assume is going to be in the Big Band addon seeing as though the Contrabass looks like it's in.

[GDG]

Grant,

Welcome to the GPO forum!

I have enjoyed visiting your www.contrabass.com website for sometime.

For those who don't know, Grant is a leading expert on contrabass and other instruments that cause seismic disturbances.

Gary Garritan

Thanks Gary,

Just learned about the forum recently. Now trying to cram a gigabyte of memory into my computer... ;-)

Grant

[GDG]

Once the contrabass sax is adequately sampled, I hope someone does the sub-contrabass sax...

(FWIW, I seem to recall hearing that this is a non-functioning instrument.)

Lee Blaske
Not only non-functioning, but no longer in existence: it was dismantled after the occassion that it was made for. There is, however, a much better alternative: the Bb subcontrabass tubax. The tubax looks deceptively small (OK, just small for the range it plays), but the lowest note is Ab0 - half a step lower than the regular piano, a full octave below the Bb bass sax. The tubax has a narrower bore than a saxophone of equivalent pitch, so its more compact (and undoubtedly more practical - it plays amazingly well for a horn that low). Jay's CD "So Low" has a Bb subcontrabass tubax duet. :D

Enjoy,

Grant

[Garritan]

Grant,

Remember this?


http://www.otheroom.com/NAMM98/images/BigSax.jpg

[jesshmusic]

Ha! My composition teacher in college told me to try to write work that at least has a chance of being performed, ie chamber music, band music (maybe another reason to get some sax samples and Euphonium?), and solo pieces for people you know who can perform them. I have written several works for orchestra and only one has been performed.

Imagine composing a Contrabass Sax Concerto! Talk about working against the odds!

I do think there is merit to having the Symphonic Band instruments available such as saxes and euphoniums because a lot of composers are making a living composing band music and these publishing companies need good demos to help them make their decision on whether to publish or not. Garritan's capability for section building could make it the first software capable synthesizing a Symphonic Band decently! Think of the marketing potential! ;)

BTW... don't get me wrong, I do LOVE the software. It has made orchestrating just that much easier, which, as you know, is wonderful! :)

[GDG]

Grant,

Remember this?


http://www.otheroom.com/NAMM98/images/BigSax.jpg


I don't remember seeing that particular picture, but it looks like the LA Sax/ORSI contrabass sax on the stand they provide.

Have you found anyone with a Contraforte (http://www.guntramwolf.de/instruments/modern/basebassoonforte/index_basebassoonforte_mod_e.htm) yet? Looks like the successor to the contrabassoon. Art Grossman in Seattle is the US distributor...

Enjoy!

Grant

[GDG]

Ha! My composition teacher in college told me to try to write work that at least has a chance of being performed, ie chamber music, band music (maybe another reason to get some sax samples and Euphonium?), and solo pieces for people you know who can perform them. I have written several works for orchestra and only one has been performed.

Imagine composing a Contrabass Sax Concerto! Talk about working against the odds!

Ah, but sometimes you have to buck the odds ;-)
Last February, I performed in a piece scored for serpent, contrabass clarinet, contrabassoon, contrabass flute, contrabass sarrusophone, contrabass saxophone, tuba, string bass, and percussion. With all of the indicated instruments. Imagine the odds of that! Another piece was scored for full orchestra plus heckelphone, glass harmonica, Bb tubax, contrabass trombone, and contrabass flute. You can order CDs from the Genesis Concert website (http://www.genesisconcert.com).

OK, sure, it took a couple of years to organize, but this was all done by a student at UCSB.

Of course, if you're going to write soundtracks, you can assemble anything the budget will permit ;-)

Enjoy!

Grant

[FredProgGH]

I wanna play a sax
I wanna play a big sax
I wanna play the biggest sax
I wanna play the biggest sax that ever saxed the world around...

(with apologies to 10cc)

[JT3_Jon]

I dont know if this is cool to do on this forum (seeing that this is a Garritan specific forum), but VSL DOES offer a strictly saxophone library in their Horizon series. Heres the link: http://www.vsl.co.at/english/pages/products_%26_shop/horizon_series/saxophones_i.htm

I do not own it yet, but being a classical sax player, I feel this is one area that is highly underutilized by most composers. Its amazing that in this day and age of wind ensembles, the growth solo saxophone works as well as the explorative nature of modern composition that the classical saxophone is not used or demanded more often!

If this post is against regulations, please feel free to delete it. I'm not associated with any sample lib, just a fellow composer/sax player who wants to see more use of this great instrument.

Best of luck,
Jon

[benjamind]

Speaking of saxophones, Linplug have just released SaxLab which is a hybrid sampler/synth that emulates a saxophone about as faithfully as you're going to get. I couldn't believe my ears when I heard some SaxLab mp3 demos from KvR members. At $149 it's not too cheap, but the sound is amazing, the soundsets are baritone, tenor, alto and soprano. There are no bass/contrabass or soprillo/piccolo sound sets, but I believe that if you change the brightness/darkness and the resonance and play higher/lower octaves then you would most likely be able to produce a reasonably realistic sound for those instruments. When I checked out the TubeLeSax demo I found it easy to play notes for baritone, bass and contrabass saxes, by just going down the octaves and changing the brightness/darkness of the tone, and could emulate a piccolo sax by playing the alto soundsets in the highest octaves with low brightness settings.

I believe the Big Band add-on would probably be better for me, at least to my ears, since I prefer real sampled sax sounds.

[1Echo]

I dont know if this is cool to do on this forum (seeing that this is a Garritan specific forum), but VSL DOES offer a strictly saxophone library in their Horizon series. Heres the link: http://www.vsl.co.at/english/pages/products_%26_shop/horizon_series/saxophones_i.htm
I don't know if this is cool to do either but another possibility may be Yellow Tools' Candy. If you look at the instruments, some of the mouthpiece-reed combinations are clearly classical setups. Unfortunately, it's not released yet and there are no demos but here's the instrument and articulation list.

http://www.yellowtools.de/cp21/cms/index.php?id=360

Chris