Gigastudio => how far off is the DXi plugin version ??

[DavidIoc]

Hello

This is my first post here - my name is David.

Whilst I am not [yet] a G/S user, one of my writing colleagues does use it and despite its habit of crashing & not \"initializing\" for reasons unknown, it is a *very* impressive pice of software - he knows his way around it very well.

But ....... I am certain that I remember reading that G/S is slated to go DXi [incl. possibly also VSTi] in the next few months, if not sooner - so I am holding off until it does before jumping onboard ....

Does anyone know how far off the DXi version of G/S is ?

In the meantime though, I did buy Kontakt to tie-me-over until G/S goes DXi ..............

Well, in all fairness, I must say that Kontakt [with Sonar] is a mighty amazing s/synth/sampler too.

Its only real disadvantge that I can see is that it does not yet disk-stream its samples - this however is due in the next update due [supposedly] in a matter of weeks ..... once Kontakt has D/S its load-speed should increase and more importantly, [hopefully] its overhead should drop even further.

For example, with the current non-D/S Kontakt version and Sonar, I daily run 24 tracks of 16/44 mono audio + (1) instance of Kontakt which is being triggered by 32 different midi tracks with all 32 midi tracks each triggering various Kontakt soft synth sounds - all this on a P4 2.53 gig and the cpu meter comfortably sits around the %50 mark and I get no pops or clicks or dropouts - I expect the D/S version of Kontakt to only imporve these figures.

So .... whats my point & why am I *still* waiting for G/S DXi ?

Well, two reasons:-

(a) listening and watching my friend use his G/S setup, it is clear to me that his G/S is still more repsonsive than my Kontakt setup - as well, it seems to use less-cpu cycles - from his explanation, he assured me that this was due to some G/S specific proprietary low-level kernel driver that G/S employs

and

(b) G/S DXi is *THE* way forward for G/S - just look at Steinberg\'s Halion, Logic EXS24 and Sonars Project 5 - due for release any day now - soft-synth / samplers is where the future is - and integration is the key - I do not belive a stand-alone G/S can survive when the \"big 3\" are all moving in the same & opposite direction to G/S.

Oh ...... and dont get me started on the price of G/S 160 [ which is the only sensible version to buy ] ..... approx $550 for a \"shell\" program doesnt make their job any easier .... you would think that by now audio application companies would have learnt by now that it is *much* better to sell 10,000 copies of a program at $99 instead of selling the 2000 copies at $550 ...

Still.......so........ when will I be able to buy G/S DXi ?

Dave

[Bill]

> Does anyone know how far off the DXi version of G/S is

As far as I know, there has been no announced intention of releasing a DXi/VSTi version of Giga. And, there is no announced release date for v3.0.

This doesn’t mean that there won’t be a DXi version, though I think that something like Rewire is more likely.

[Ed]

True, but as far as I know \"they\" havent announced anything about what they are going to include in the new giga update.

Ed

[nexus]

I don\'t believe Nemesys can make Giga operate like a DXi or VST plug-in instrument, as they cannot \'integrate\' the GSIF driver, since it is a kernal level driver. This driver has always been at the heart of the Giga way of doing things. The way Halion does it is too use way more RAM to overcome the delay that occurs when operating under the ASIO driver, and even then, it cannot operate as efficiently as Giga with it\'s GSIF. On the other hand, GSIF is a bugger when it comes to integrating with your sequencer. I have to run it on it\'s own soundcard and you must understand that it was ALWAYS intended as a stand-alone app.
Nemesys said once in some early brochures, that since the price of PCs was falling dramatically (at that time, anyway)it made sense to dedicate a separate computer to Giga like you would buy an EMU E4 or something. Many pro users (and not-so-pro!!) use it exactly that way.
If Tascam decides to go DXi or something, it would most likely be a separate version of Gigastudio and would most likely have it\'s performance compromised somewhat along the lines of Halion (on the Wintel PC, that is).

[donimon]

I wouldn\'t hold my breath waiting for a DXI version - and why you would even want to. I really don\'t see how people always slam Giga for being unstable or not like Kontakt or Halion - it\'s not - it\'s in it\'s own more professional league. Yes it runs best on it\'s on machine, alongside your sequencer computer. $500 for the program isn\'t cheap, but compared to an Akai or EMU it\'s a freakin steal. And it works solid as a rock as long as you configure it correctly and don\'t put too much other stuff on it. And tell me what other soft sampler allows you to load 64 patches at once, all up and ready to be played. And try searching for a sound with alot of the other ones - the Giga database rocks for quickly finding and loading sounds. I think if you are waiting for a DXI version, you are missing the point about what is so great about Giga. If you want a pro sampler that nothing else can match, then $500 is nothing. Even when Kontakt disk streams, that\'s great for 1 or 2 or even 5 instances, but try 64, along with your sequencer. You\'ll be waiting 5 minutes for it to start once you press the space bar and will need about 5 gigs of RAM. I own EXS and it\'s great for some things, but I\'m not looking to replace my 2 Giga PC\'s with all EXS or Kontakt. There\'s no reason to - I can do everything you\'re holding out for now. I wouldn\'t knock it until you buy it and use it - you will not go back.

[Deep White]

hi donimon,

I agree with all the good things you said about Giga, yet you\'re missing something. Some of us people that hate GigaStudio to be an \"isolated island\" in our system because we can\'t apply any realtime effect to it. For a VSTi or DXi that\'s quite easy. And don\'t say that there\'s no plug-ins worth using. UAD-1 and Powercore are both quite good. I loaded the Drumkit From Hell sample in DR-008 and used the 1176, LA2A and Pultec plug-ins from the UAD-1 to mix the drumset. The result is amazing.

The other reason why we want Giga integrated into the host software is because there are some sample libraries that require additional MIDI application running alongside with GigaStudio, like the Maestro Tools for GOS and Virtuoso FX for the Post piano samples. If GSt can be launched within a host software, it\'d be much easier.

[donimon]

I think you misunderstood me - I never said that there are no plug-ins worth using. They\'re all that I use. In fact, in the setup I have, I have stereo live inputs from Giga into Logic (on a MAC) that I put real-time effects on all day. Oh, and I own Garritan and use Maestro tools all day too. Once you get it setup, there are many benefits to having Giga on a seperate machine - for orchestral it\'s almost a must. I am sure that you got great results with Drumkit From Hell (I use EXS for my drums) - but Giga really surpasses everything when you have a huge orchestral template (say 80 instruments) that you need to have loaded at all times. For now, that\'s just not possible with plug-in samplers, let alone on the same machine as your sequencer.

[shawn]

Originally posted by DavidIoc:
.... you would think that by now audio application companies would have learnt by now that it is *much* better to sell 10,000 copies of a program at $99 instead of selling the 2000 copies at $550 ... <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Actually, I\'d rather sell 2000 at $550. Not only would that make more money ($1.1 million, vs. the $990,000 for selling 10,000 copies at $99 per), but I\'d probably end up having to spend far less on tech support and customer service.

-Shawn

[Deep White]

Originally posted by donimon:
In fact, in the setup I have, I have stereo live inputs from Giga into Logic (on a MAC) that I put real-time effects on all day.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">This is what I want but couldn\'t get. I wanted at least 8 pairs of stereo live inputs from Giga, but failed to do so with SONAR and Cubase SX. How many stereo live inputs can you get with Logic?

About the whole orchestra setup, it\'s also very easy with VSTi. Just save it as a library, or save the project file as a template file of the host program (SONAR or Cubase SX).

I\'ve checked out Kontact in my friend\'s store and I\'m very satisfied. Once the new patch is out (including harddisk streaming and key switching stuff) I might just buy it and use it for most of the stuff.

[Haydn]

It\'s amazing how many of the developers I spoke with at NAMM really like the Kontakt platform. It does many cool things that Giga could only think of. Just make sure you have a powerful computer to get high polyphony counts.

[nexus]

This seems to be something of a \'hot debate\' concerning Giga vers. Halion (or Kontakt). Frankly, I think it\'s sort of like the very old (and by now very tiresome)debate of \"Wintel vs AppleMAC\". What one post says here about kernal level apps is very true--they can be obsoleted very quickly at the present rate of technology. My feeling is \"why wait\". Certainly Tascam will have their hands full in a short time keeping up, but I\'ve decided that since PCs are really dirt cheap compared to hardware samplers, if I wish to upgrade in the future, I\'ll just keep my present PC, which I use for everything musical, and buy whatever is better at the moment. Keeping the old computer to run even an outdated version of Giga is still better as Gigastudio is ALREADY quite evolved. Halion is not very efficient even on the MAC, though people are using it that way with little or no complaint--though I\'ll bet they aren\'t using it to do much ORCHESTRAL music! As for Kontakt, well it is great but it was NEVER intended to compete with Gigastudio, though people saw it that way and have pressured the developer to force it to be a Giga competitor. I have had my share of problems with Giga, and I am only a recent user of it, and it IS much easier to just plug in an EMU E4 or something, but I believe nothing else can REALLY touch it at this time( and lets everyone be honest with themselves about this fact!).

[Aaron Levitz]

Originally posted by nexus:
What one post says here about kernal level apps is very true--they can be obsoleted very quickly at the present rate of technology.
...
Keeping the old computer to run even an outdated version of Giga is still better as Gigastudio is ALREADY quite evolved.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">You got it.

If we accept the premise that there is value in having a dedicated Giga machine, who cares whether the latest OS supports it? You buy what it works on. End of story.

If GSIF doesn\'t work in any future operating systems, I say offer new versions of Gigastudio bundled with a copy of Windows XP or 2000. Sell it pre-installed on a DAW if new hardware doesn\'t offer drivers.

I can\'t tell you how many 486s and original Pentiums are still out there in the workplace running DOS 6.0 because folks are so attached to their Wordperfect 5. It\'s rediculous. But I\'m starting to think they have the right idea.

Recognize a good thing when you see it, and accept nothing less.

[David Abraham]

Originally posted by donimon:
- but Giga really surpasses everything when you have a huge orchestral template (say 80 instruments) that you need to have loaded at all times. For now, that\'s just not possible with plug-in samplers, let alone on the same machine as your sequencer. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">...however this was the biggest frustration for me, the frequently default assumption that a software sampler customer was automatically looking to do large MIDI orchestration type projects...as of now I don\'t see the need for Giga to go DXi or VSTi, there are more and more excellent virtual synths/samplers in plugin format. So possibly Tascam will just elect to stick to their standalone power strategy.

-david abraham