complete guide to game audio

[eppers]

Hey. I just bought the book "the complete guide to game audio" by aaron marks. Just wondering if anyone else has read it and what your input is on it. Thanks.

Eppers.

[Marcussen]

I havent read it, but from what I can gather from reading varrious message boards its the book that everyone recommends

[cmrick]

Have I read it?.... I'm in it! :)

[zquarles]

Damn good book.

[Scott Cairns]

Great book. Probably the best aspects are the advice on what to ask for in contracts. The info on recommended hardware is a bit outdated by now.

[eppers]

Thanks for the responses!! Looking forward to the read.

[bergelp]

I'm currently reading the book -- seems like a great guidebook to get started in the bus. Only one question -- are those figures real for how much one should ask for a game? It seems a bit outlandish -- are people really making that much?

Also, and I don't mean for anyone to give up their secrets or anything, but how do you get your foot in the door when it comes to game scoring? I've done a bazillion movies, but can't seem to land a gig in the gaming world. Any advice?

Thanks,
Paul Bergel

[Scott Cairns]

Hi, I think you'll soon discover what the market can afford in your region and at your level of experience in gaming. Just like film, an independant game doesnt have the same budget or pay-rate as a blockbuster or AAA title.

Kind of like an actor too, we tend to start on small games with next to no budget. You really have to work your way up to the top.

There's already lots of advice in this forum to getting started but a couple of points;

- approach developers and publishers
- start by working on mods or student games
- go to industry conferences, etc.
- network, get to know people in the industry
- play lots of games (no joke, you'll relate to this industry and the people in it more if you know whats going on and have a passion for games.)

Also check out;

www.flipcode.net (http://www.flipcode.net/) www.garagegames.com (http://www.garagegames.com/) www.audiogang.org (http://www.audiogang.org/) www.gamasutra.com (http://www.gamasutra.com/)

[Tower]

I've read the book multiple times. I think it is an amazing resource. It is detailed, information-filled, and encouraging. It covers technical, creative, and business aspects of game audio. I even emailed the author (Aaron), and he was very gracious and helpful. I can't recommend the book enough. I think it's required reading for anyone new to game audio.

[bergelp]

Yeah it seems like a really great book -- i'm about three-quarters of the way through it and I cannot put it down! I wish there were books like that on other kinds of composing! (If i would have had a great guide like that when I began film scoring, I'd be a much happier man!!)

Thank you all for your advice, I really can't thank you enough -- Paul

[AaronBMarks]

Thanks for all the kind works, guys! I'm very glad the book has found a good home and is being used for something other than a door stop. :) (makes the year and a half I spent writing it definitely worthwhile.)

I'm hoping to eventually start on the 2nd edition, just waiting to see if the publisher wants to go that route or if I'll do the self publishing thing instead. I'll let you know and maybe ask for some input to see what else you'd like to see in it.

Aaron

[locash]

Hi Aaron, (and others)

i bought your book a number of months ago and at the time, read sections and was very excited. i put it down because at the time i was just composing for tv, and could not relate to some of it. However a month ago an email from a game developer desiring my services arrived in my inbox....so, I franticly picked your book up again when i began the contract and fee stage of my first game. The contract section was awesome and used one of them as a starting point....i was quite intimidated because the distributor, this development company is doing the game, for is pretty huge.

heres a few random (possibly useable) thoughts for your next book.

i found the business side most helpful and especially the stories. I loved your story about your negotiations with that company that wanted you for super cheap. If you could get more stories like that from other people. stories with good and bad endings....stories which tell lessons learned etc...stories of how people got "into" the game industry. Also maybe a list of top 10 games to play (for the audio) for the past 5 years.....according to peers. Maybe a bit of history on game audio (could be its own book i know) and certain milestones and certain huge breakthroughs throughout its years.

again, great work.

Mitch

[AaronBMarks]

Thanks, Mitch - and many thanks for the ideas!!!

Good luck on the game gig - sounds like it could be a good one!

Aaron

[WayneSim]

First of all, welcome to the forums Aaron. It's great to see that you have stopped past, and I do hope you can stick around in the future. btw, great book ;).

I think it's a great idea to release a new and up-to-date book on game audio. And I look forward to it. I'm sure you have thought of most things to include. But I'll give my opinions anyways :).

Below is my preference of things I would like to see added in order.

#1. Have you thought about releasing a DVD with the book? I would love to watch interviews with current big composers. As with tours of their studios. What their general day consists of etc... etc... As reading is good, but seeing is even better. I'm sure you could put together a DVD for pretty cheap. And i'm sure everyone would really enjoy it!!! Heck, release a 5 hour DVD instead of the book ;). I'm actually quite serious!

#2. An indepth look at recording Orchestra's and live instuments. How to setup the session and organize it. Tips, skills, techniquies for recording in a big studio/sound stage, to recording say a string trio in your home recording studio. "Samples vs Real" dissusion by the big composers. We all want to expose Bill Browns secrets ;) LOL...

#3. Pro Composer/Sound design setups... more on how many computers they run and what each system does. Personally I'm not that interested in specs on each pc or whatever (staying up with computer hardward/software is part of the job, imo), but rather how they do it. Why there setup is this way, etc... More on the setup side, and personal preferences. Also please dont forget Sound Design studios... I'm not againist giving hardware specs, i just think that sometimes it's less relevant because as you write the book the specs are already out of date... I'm not saying "dont give us specs" all i'm trying to point out is in some ways i'm much more interested in other area's. So not to waste large amounts of time finding out what each composer PC(s) are. Sure, include it for a couple of composers on the DVD ;). But no need to cover everyone.

#4. Advanced look at audio mastering. Covering "Do it yourself" techniquies. Also "Do it yourself" vs pay someone else (i.e a bigger studio).

#5. In depth dissusion on 5.1 audio in todays gaming world, as with the future. Advanced setup technics, 5.1 mixing techniquies, dealing with bigger studios, etc...etc... more indepth would be helpful. As I think we are getting closer to it being a standard. Although I'm not even sure how many composer actually have a 5.1 setup. How many composers/sound designers have and use a 5.1 setup on a regular basis? Opinions on a 5.1 setup from composers point of view, what to buy, etc...

#6. I would also like to see things from the semi-pro point of view. As in some ways this could be more revelant to most people, than hearing all about the AAA big budget stuff. Basically, to cover the indie market as well.

I really hope I have helped you in some way. I really look forward to your new book/DVD ;)!!!

[brilohead]

Those are all great ideas and I can't wait to get the 2nd edition. Also I would like to see more information on how music is fitted into a game (ie spotting).

Thanks Aaron for a great book.

Christiaan

[ditroiamusic]

Just wanted to say I'm also a big fan of the book and would recommend it to anyone. Mark is also a hell of a nice guy who is never short of an encouraging word or advice when you email him.

[Cpt. Haydn]

I just got this book, it arrived yesterday. It's a very interesting read so far, Im most interested in the sound design but theres a lot of information about music and composing which is really useful.

when was this book written ? I cant see a date, the references to games seem to be fairly recent.

[bergelp]

The copyright on mine says 2001... pretty funny how much things change in 4 years (software- and hardware-wise!!).

Paul Bergel
www.pauldavidbergel.com

[Symbiotic]

Do any of you readers know if online music delivery is covered at all in this edition?

Specifically I'm looking for info on how to compose/create soundtracks and soundeffects for online games (MMORPG), etc. I know that DLS and SoundFonts are two of the keys to the puzzle...but beyond that I'm stuck...

[Lixir]

Hi all !
I'm reading that forum since couple months, it's a great community !
And I've discovered incredible artist here (Maarten Spruijt, and recently Sean Beeson via myspace), I'm sure many of people here have great skills too.
I bought Aaron's book and recieive it today after reading some post here.
It's an GREAT GREAT book !
I've learned a lot and lots of situations are explained.
I'm very happy and I didn't finish it yet, but what I've read is excellent !
Thanks a lot Aaron, thanks for that useful book !

David

[AaronBMarks]

I'm very happy and I didn't finish it yet, but what I've read is excellent !
Thanks a lot Aaron, thanks for that useful book !




You're quite welcome, David (and to everyone else who commented). Enjoy!!!

Aaron

PS. Should be signing book deal #2 shortly - stand by!

[AaronBMarks]

And to answer the few offline inquiries......

I can't say much more yet, but it will be about game audio. ;)

Expect something more focused on how to create the music, sound effects and dialog - the 'business' part of it won't be covered this time around. Been there, done that.

More when I am able to.....

Aaron

[nikolas]

Aaron, also wanted to comment on the great book of yours. Especially on the buisnes part it was extremly helpful to me. But as you say, this is one thing that hasn't changed ove the past 5 years. Technology has ;)

Thanks for this book :)

[groovyone]

hiya Aaron.

Have we met?

:) old joke huh.

Unfortunately I left my copy behind in Oz when I defeated the wicked witch of the west (aka Midway) and moved to the land of the Munchkins (that'd be California).

The one thing in that book I remember the most is that photo of Jack Wall I think it was sitting up somewhere remote in Yosemite playing something that looked like it should have electricity hooked into it. But point was, that the invention of the pocket-mountain is close at hand for all those who want some instant inspiration. The term "Is that a mountain in your pocket or are you just happy to see me" will be coined - so too the response, "Yeah Baby, I'm a game composer".

For all those who haven't read the book, or first name isn't Aaron or last name Marks, may think I'm on something not quite legal when I wrote this.

[AaronBMarks]

Have we met?

:) old joke huh.



Yannis - you remembered this time! Nicely done. :) Still funny, though.

A

[Symbiotic]

I think that was a shot of Chance Thomas, actually. ;-) Point taken, though, and in good humor.

[AaronBMarks]

But it WAS in Yosemite - so he gets half credit. ;)

A

[groovyone]

Chance! Yeah, I knew it was a Wall or a Thomas type sitting up there on that mountain top. Brilliant photo! We're either extremely passionate, or a bunch of total loons. :)

[Symbiotic]

Perhaps passionate loons? In either case, I'm envious of Chance! I'd love to be sitting up in the mountains making music. Beats my tiny apartment-studio any day!

Looking forward to the new book, Aaron! In the meantime, has anyone read this one?

http://www.amazon.com/Exploring-Design-Interactive-Media-Exploration/dp/1401881025/sr=8-3/qid=1158844591/ref=pd_bbs_3/104-2457072-3885547?ie=UTF8&s=books

Seems like the only new-ish book that pertains to game audio. I've read the three big ones (Aaron's, Fat Man, and Alex's)...

[dwdonehoo]

Chance! Yeah, I knew it was a Wall or a Thomas type sitting up there on that mountain top. Brilliant photo! We're either extremely passionate, or a bunch of total loons. :)

That was Chance all right. We have joked about it. The picture was taken at Glacier Point in Yosemite. Also every year he invites friends to climb Half Dome with him (that there big rock in the background in the picture) as a day hike. Only for the fit. I almost went this year, but instead did a pack to the southwest: but I did see the Dome from my trail the day of Chance's hike. Chance lives near the south gate of Yosemite, the lucky dog. He is there because Sierra Studios used to be there before they got yanked out. His house, his grounds, his view is awesome. He has the good life.
He looks in on this forum from time to time.

[Lixir]

A question for Aaron or anyone that could help !

Let's say I work for a mmorpg project .
Can I ask less per minute of music and maybe ask a % on monthly subscription or it's not conceivable ?

Thanks !

[TLarkin]

Can I ask less per minute of music and maybe ask a % on monthly subscription or it's not conceivable ?
You can ask for anything you want really, and although I think I know the answer, you'll never know until you ask. But above all, be prepared for either answer. If they say yes, you'll need to figure out a reasonable %, and if they say no, then are you still interested, do you walk away, or do you just negotiate a higher upfront price. Also, instead of monthly subscription %, maybe you can ask only for a percentage of either box sales or signups instead. The main thing is to think of creative ways to get something and still have the publisher think they're not giving anything away.

Good Luck.

Tim

[Lixir]

Thanks Tim !

That question came up in my mind because mmorpg are not familiar to me considering music perspectives.
Thanks for your answer, I'm going to see what is the best and although money is not the main goal for me, I want to be as informed as I can :D