Steinberg bought by Yamaha

[Houston Haynes]

Hey folks - I just caught a press release on Yahoo about 1/2 hour ago, and it looks to be interesting.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041221/sftu007_1.html


Pinnacle Systems Enters Into Agreement to Sell Steinberg Audio Software Business to Yamaha Corporation
Tuesday December 21, 12:01 am ET

MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Dec. 21 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Pinnacle Systems, Inc. (Nasdaq: PCLE - News), a leader in digital video solutions, today announced that it has entered into a definitive agreement to sell its Hamburg, Germany-based Steinberg audio software business to Yamaha Corporation. The transaction, which is subject to regulatory approval, is expected to be completed during Pinnacle's third fiscal quarter ended March 31, 2005.

"Steinberg's accomplishments and leadership in the professional audio software industry are directly inline with Yamaha's long track record of success in that same industry," said Patti Hart, Pinnacle Systems Chairman and CEO. "We believe the deal is beneficial to both Pinnacle and Yamaha, and is absolutely the right move for Steinberg."

As part of the transaction, Steinberg and Pinnacle will cross-license certain intellectual property on a royalty-free basis and Pinnacle will continue to distribute Steinberg's WaveLab Lite audio editing product with Pinnacle Studio Media Suite.

"For Pinnacle Systems this decision continues to tighten the company's focus on our core strengths in the digital video solutions market," continued Hart. "We believe it also allows us to bring greater management and financial resources to leverage our core strengths in digital video for long-term market leadership and growth."

Pinnacle entered the audio business in January 2003 when it acquired Steinberg Media Technologies A.G., a market leader in professional audio software that was founded in 1984.

So here's the topic of discussion: what, if any, potential changes do you see for the sample/virtual instrument industry with this change? Do you think there will be specific moves made by this company in this sector of the industry, or will it just be a matter of two big players in two seprate fields now making more waves than before and "splashing" the sampling enthusiasts along the way?

[Martin Hines]

I think it is a good move by Yamaha, especially since they have already collaborated with Steinberg on their Studio Manager software.

This will allow Yamaha to further integrate their hardware with software.

P.S. - Little know fact: Yamaha owns some portion of Korg (I can't ever find out how much).

[Max Head]

Thanx God.

[thesoundsmith]

Interesting development. Gazing into my Crystal Geyser sports water bottle, I don't think we'll see much immediate (year or three) change in any of their policies/products except logo. But five years down the road, what might Yamaha do with the Steinberg technology?

They have the resources (and the stones) to evolve untested ideas into hardware - remember the DX7; that was one man on a mainframe and some equations before Yamaha. Afterwards it was a major new way of producing electronic sound. It's dated now, but still is a particular class of sonic mathematics that remains distinctive and valid in the compositional pallette.

I'm looking forward to the hybrid child of this new union - the Yamberg. :D

[Thomas_J]

I just switched to Cubase SX (From SONAR) a few months ago and I must say it's an amazing piece of software achievement. Steinberg is however in desperate need of reorganization with regards to their customer relations. I truly hope Yamaha, being the empire of digital sound technology it is, can help Steinberg iron out a few issues. I doubt we'll see a less buggy Cubase/Nuendo as a result of this sale, though. I'm pretty sure Steinberg will keep their current staff and not have anyone from Yamaha impose on their work.

On a side note, while we're on about Yamaha: Anyone know what happened to Yamaha's VL1/70m products? It looks like they made a rather curious decision not to sustain development of physical modelling. The VL1/7(0m)'s are awesome, even by today's standards. I believe both of them were discontinued. At least I'm having a hard time aquiring one. The Vl70 engine was actually featured in a free software based midi player for windows, but with a latency around 200ms it was utterly useless for music production. I wish they'd just release a VSTi plug-in of the VL1 or at least the VL70.

[haarbol]

On a side note, while we're on about Yamaha: Anyone know what happened to Yamaha's VL1/70m products? It looks like they made a rather curious decision not to sustain development of physical modelling. The VL1/7(0m)'s are awesome, even by today's standards. I believe both of them were discontinued. At least I'm having a hard time aquiring one. The Vl70 engine was actually featured in a free software based midi player for windows, but with a latency around 200ms it was utterly useless for music production. I wish they'd just release a VSTi plug-in of the VL1 or at least the VL70.

OT reaction: the technology is still available as plugin board for for instance s90, motif and motif es, called PLG-VL boards. They can be controlled (of course) by breathcontrol, just like the vl70m's.

[seclusion]

Maybe they'll do an all in one controller/mixer/sequencer/audio recorder/mastering all in one unit! No computer required!
Later
Bri

[Joseph Burrell]

Yamberg?

You better trademark that name before they do. Then you can sell it to them at millions of dollars worth of profit.
:D

[Houston Haynes]

I don't think we'll see much immediate (year or three) change in any of their policies/products except logo. But five years down the road, what might Yamaha do with the Steinberg technology?

Look like they're already 4 years, 364 days ahead of your schedule -

LINK ==> Studio Connections (http://www.studioconnections.org)


:eek:

[wes37]

This could mean better tech support and development as Yamaha has more resources.

Knowing Yamaha (I love my Motif), the manuals will now become twice as hard to figure out. :D

[Houston Haynes]

I've sent a post report to have this thread deleted. Please post in the other more appropriately titled thread - here.

NEW THREAD =>> Steinberg bought by Yamaha (http://northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28650&goto=newpost)



Sorry for the miscue. :o

[Hans Grubner]

When Steinberg will become part of the Yamaha group, I suppose that mLan will be a big theme in future studiotechnology.
What is mLan? Replacement for midi? For Midioverlan? For fxteleport?
(sorry for my bad english)

[T Parks]

Yamaha will doubtless see it as a means to patenting and shifting more hardware.

[SWL]

Great ................ :mad:

And we will all be force fed Yamaha hardware.

And i ALMOST bought the Nuendo update today ... perhaps i need to think about this.

If only Logic offered proper audio editing support, i would have no real need for Nuendo (sample accurate audio editing via arrange window, clip based editing, that translates to other software, PDC, etc).

I tried composing in Nuendo again yesterday - almost nightmarish, i made a 128 track template, went to insert an audio plugin, the Waves drop-down listed my Edit menu :-( --- ALL plugin menus were swapped for main app menus. Only way i could 'fix it' was to reduce track count to 80.

Anyhow ---

[Houston Haynes]

bump - pls post in this thread - I screwed up the title in the other one and have requested that it be deleted

[SWL]

Great ................

And we will all be force fed Yamaha hardware.

And i ALMOST bought the Nuendo update today ... perhaps i need to think about this.

If only Logic offered proper audio editing support, i would have no real need for Nuendo (sample accurate audio editing via arrange window, clip based editing, that translates to other software, PDC, etc).

I tried composing in Nuendo again yesterday - almost nightmarish, i made a 128 track template, went to insert an audio plugin, the Waves drop-down listed my Edit menu :-( --- ALL plugin menus were swapped for main app menus. Only way i could 'fix it' was to reduce track count to 80.

Anyhow ---

[Houston Haynes]

Great ................

And we will all be force fed Yamaha hardware.

And i ALMOST bought the Nuendo update today ... perhaps i need to think about this.

If only Logic offered proper audio editing support, i would have no real need for Nuendo (sample accurate audio editing via arrange window, clip based editing, that translates to other software, PDC, etc).

I tried composing in Nuendo again yesterday - almost nightmarish, i made a 128 track template, went to insert an audio plugin, the Waves drop-down listed my Edit menu :-( --- ALL plugin menus were swapped for main app menus. Only way i could 'fix it' was to reduce track count to 80.

Anyhow ---

I don't think you'll see the same thing with either Emagic's acquisition by Apple, or a type of "Digidesign" thing. Yamaha already has some serious integration with Cubase and Nuendo through Studio Connections' "Total Recall", which they're making available for free in the same manner as the ASIO and VST software development kits. I think this means that, while deep integration between Steinberg and Yamaha products can be considered a given, there's nothing to preclude other manufacturers in doing the same.

On the upper tier, Euphonix partnered with Steinberg on a Eu-Con version of Nuendo for their MC-5 series of consoles. While this is a $25,000 ante, it still begs the question of "why would Euphonix do this, and more importantly, why would Steinberg have ventured with them if they knew they were being courted by Yamaha?" I think some of the answers are obvious, but to those that think this through I believe that it can be seen as instructive to the distance that Yamaha will keep. To whit:


We wish to announce that on Dec. 20, 2004, Yamaha Corporation (Japan) and Pinnacle System Inc. (USA) signed agreements pursuant to which Yamaha will acquire the entire interest in Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH. This transaction is expected to close in mid-January, contingent on clearance by German Federal Cartel Office.

Steinberg already has a business relationship with Yamaha through Studio Connections initiative that we announced at Musikmesse in Frankfurt this year. Yamaha wishes to keep Steinberg as an independent company and it has no current intention to integrate its operations with Yamaha’s.

We are certain that our new ownership by Yamaha will provide opportunities in many areas such as product development and total system solution.
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/aboutus/PR/News.asp?NewsID=3753 http://www.global.yamaha.com/news/2004/20041221.html

Sincererly yours,
Steinberg Team

As far as your issues are concerned - that's a serious bummer, and a helluva bug you've found there. I have a few templates that are >120 tracks and have not had any problems with selecting as you describe. Then again, I don't have the Waves plugs, so it might be an issue with them. Perhaps you're pointing to a folder for the plugs, and they have sub-folders with DLLs in them that gives Nuendo the impression that those are also VSTs - but that wouldn't explain the track count issue. Like I said - bummer.

Good luck,

[mts]

Bring it on! I was never happy with a 'consumer level' desktop video company owning Steinberg - those sort of companies eventually tend to 'dumb down' the software to try and spread it as far and thinly as they can (you know like little guitars and drums as icons for your tracks... dig!). Yamaha have made more positive impacts in the music world than just about any other company. It's a good thing.

Mark TS

[undertone]

I hate Yamaha. They really know how to milk technology (anyone remember after the DX7 how many inferior DX clones were made before the DXII came out? It took over 4 years. And their top-of-the-line electronic pianos are now "3-layers"...woohoo...the DS2416 was 3/4 of the way it's life-cycle before they came out with decent drivers). They're a very large company making everything from toilet bowls to motorcycles, so the goal isn't just quality software for audio professionals.

And they're supposed to care that, say, a small group of people using software made from one of their obscure subsidiaries want side-chains to be implemented? And we imagine that they "may" incorporate Yamaha technology into this subsidiary's products?

It's more likely to see Yamaha making workstations and possibly custom computers incorporating Steinberg technology, and integrating Steinberg technology into Yamaha products, than the other way round.

The reality is also that none of the Japanese hardware companies have any experience running a software company. Can companies who make hardware based DAWs possibly want to improve the quality, debug and feature-enrich software products that compete directly with their hardware?

So now we have:

Emagic = Apple
Sonic Foundry = Sony
Steinberg = Yamaha
Cooledit = Adobe
Gigasampler = Tascam
M-Audio = Digidesign = Avid

I'd buy Samplitude (they're still the only privately owned DAW co, right?), but I'm sure they'll be selling to someone shortly after I invest (ie: throw away more money).

Where did I put my 8-track analog deck..or...how's that Open Source Linux project going?

Sorry for venting.

u

[undertone]

One more thing:be prepared for even LESS customer support.

They're good when it involves sending an instrument for repair and returning it. They have that act together. But big companies are experts at stonewalling, unless they're selling something.

As a test: try to find a direct Yamaha customer support line on the net.

In 20 years in the business, the only Yamaha support people I ever spoke to where sales reps or retail sales reps.

u

[midphase]

If only Logic offered proper audio editing support, i would have no real need for Nuendo (sample accurate audio editing via arrange window, clip based editing, that translates to other software, PDC, etc).



I think you might want to really scrutinize the new Logic 7 features. I believe they addressed most of what you mention.

[Rich Pell]

I hate Yamaha. They really know how to milk technology (anyone remember after the DX7 how many inferior DX clones were made before the DXII came out? It took over 4 years. And their top-of-the-line electronic pianos are now "3-layers"...woohoo...the DS2416 was 3/4 of the way it's life-cycle before they came out with decent drivers). They're a very large company making everything from toilet bowls to motorcycles, so the goal isn't just quality software for audio professionals.

And they're supposed to care that, say, a small group of people using software made from one of their obscure subsidiaries want side-chains to be implemented? And we imagine that they "may" incorporate Yamaha technology into this subsidiary's products?

It's more likely to see Yamaha making workstations and possibly custom computers incorporating Steinberg technology, and integrating Steinberg technology into Yamaha products, than the other way round.

The reality is also that none of the Japanese hardware companies have any experience running a software company. Can companies who make hardware based DAWs possibly want to improve the quality, debug and feature-enrich software products that compete directly with their hardware?

So now we have:

Emagic = Apple
Sonic Foundry = Sony
Steinberg = Yamaha
Cooledit = Adobe
Gigasampler = Tascam
M-Audio = Digidesign = Avid

I'd buy Samplitude (they're still the only privately owned DAW co, right?), but I'm sure they'll be selling to someone shortly after I invest (ie: throw away more money).

Where did I put my 8-track analog deck..or...how's that Open Source Linux project going?

Sorry for venting.

u

One More:

Emagic = Apple
Sonic Foundry = Sony
Steinberg = Yamaha
Cooledit = Adobe
Gigasampler = Tascam
M-Audio = Digidesign = Avid

Samplitude = Magix (a german Video software company)

I`m not surprised as i saw the writing on the wall (as SX 3 features the Yamaha Studio Manager ). Thomas J. is right though. Amazing (and sometimes innovative) program but awful support from germany. The forum is a joke since you dont have to be a registered Stienberg user to get on (filled with whiners and crack users) and the no real full time Moderator in the Cubase Forum. And the `1st releases are always riddled with bugs. Luckily though Stienberg Canada is really great and you can always get someone to help you..Also ,Anyone check out the Stienberg I.D controller for Nuendo..It looks pretty good..Rich

[Nick Batzdorf]

Anyone know what happened to Yamaha's VL1/70m products?

They had the VL70m around for a long time, but the problem with the VL1 is that you have to spend half an hour learning how to play it. Half an hour is beyond the attention span of customers and salespeople in music stores;the instrument sounds "broken," as VL1 product manager Avery Burdette puts it, if you don't know how to play it.

So someone figured it wasn't worth it and took the instrument off the market.

Meanwhile, the VL1 is the crown pinnacle of synthesis as far as I'm concerned. Mine is like Charlton Heston's rifle ("you'll have to pry it from my cold dead fingers"). The VL1/EWI combination is awesome.

[SWL]

I think you might want to really scrutinize the new Logic 7 features. I believe they addressed most of what you mention.

Audio in the arrange window is still light years behind other apps. For post-production, i must have the ability to adjust levels per clip, without going offline. I can get around Nuendo like i did on the Fairlight MFX - and have several macros with similar treatments as the MFX3 -

So i hate composing in Nuendo, love composing in Logic

hate mixing in Logic, love mixing in Nuendo.

I still can't find a happy medium in using one program for all.

[thesoundsmith]

Musician's Friend is selling the VL-70m at a real discount here. (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_id/35208) if anyone is interested.

Physical modeling IS the future of organic sounding instruments, they just need to develop the user interface so the 'just-push-a-button' crowd can figure it out easily. Plus, there needs to be an appropriate interface. It's true youo have to learn to play the instrument. So you build an instrument that's worth the time it takes to get to know it. Perhaps a dummied-down overlay that lets you use the keyboard like a standard synth, kind of like the non-breath-control bank on the VL-70m, then open an integrated display to build the desired instrument. (Select a pipe, enter the dimensions. An isometric graphic of the pipe appears, with grab handles for the flare at the end...)

Yamaha owns the technology and patents for the VL1. Imagine a properly implemented GUI on a flagship synth. Could be done by Yamaha pretty cost-effectively, as they have the sound engine algorithms down. Now it's just a matter of creating a database of parameter sets and a decent front end. For a product like Tassman, this would be very difficult, as they don't have the sound engine. For Yamaha, it should be quite straightforward.

I sure would like this to happen.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

I'd buy Samplitude (they're still the only privately owned DAW co, right?),
Cakewalk is still 100% privately owned by Greg Hendershott.

[Bruce A. Richardson]

I think it really remains to be seen what Yamaha will do with Steinberg.

However, despite their pretty talk, Yamaha has NEVER in all its history done anything with software except use it to pimp proprietary standards and hardware. I don't expect to see any sudden change of heart, but we can always hope.

Whatever the case, Steinberg itself can't do worse at Yamaha than at Pinnacle, where they were loathed by the CEO and dying on the vine.

[1Echo]

Cakewalk is still 100% privately owned by Greg Hendershott.But they have an intimate partnership with Roland/Edirol. Still waiting for that Roland/Sonar control surface ......

Chris

[Link F.]

I'd buy Samplitude (they're still the only privately owned DAW co, right?)...

Don't forget SAW Studio! :)

[Nick Batzdorf]

Yamaha has NEVER in all its history done anything with software except use it to pimp proprietary standards and hardware.

Maybe Yamaha figures they need to get into software now? I'm sure someone as un-technical as you wouldn't realize it :) but hardware isn't doing so well these days...

[Nick Batzdorf]

MOTU is still private too.

[lion_tone]

I think this aquisition is actually a good thing for both companies (Yamaha and Steinberg). It gives Steinberg relative stability within a large company with lots of money and a good tradition of quality. It's great for Yamaha because their hardware systems will have peerless intergration inside Nuendo and Cubase. I do not feel that anyone will be force-fed Yamaha hardware, but I do think it will make the prospects of a Yamaha/Nuendo suite very, very viable.

Upon reading this article, I was surprised that Steinberg was not bought by EMU/Creative Labs or Tascam given their presence as hardware makers with high-level sampling programs with somewhat agressive postures in growing market share. Yamaha has a good reputation for making pro-level equipment regarless of Genre (motorcycles, recording custom drums) so I think Steinberg has the backing with a proven company.

[jkerr]

They are going to try to compete with Emagic/Apple, and Protools. I can already see it. Yamaha (as Bruce said) uses software to boost hardware sales. Therefore, I see this merger as Yamaha putting themselves in a position to market their hardware for THEIR software. (ie PROTOOLSish) They are going to try to build a backbone on their controllers and other hardware they have in the works to work exclusively on Cubase.

This leaves the software companies with no other option than to develop their own hardware. Cakewalk has stated they are developing a controller for Sonar. I am sure that Greg will have to work harder than ever to compete as a top software company (of which they only have recently arrived in the audio side of DAWs). Either that, or he will pick up all of the frustrated users that may leave due to hardware limitations.

Samplitude has 2 options. They could choose Mackie or RME. They only support the RME soundcards though others work very well with it. They also support the Mackie control almost exclusively. They support other controllers, but Mackie is their top priority.

Mackie could choose Cakewalk, Samplitude, or Emagic/Apple. They initially developed for Emagic, but they decided universal was the route to take. Now, it seems as if it would be smarter to develop only for Samplitude or Cakewalk. Unfortunately Samplitude won't be released in English until mid-January and their user base is very limited. They have the best DAW in v8 (as long as you don't require scoring features).

Oh, and SAW.......they have an awesome audio engine, but I just didn't believe them to be as fully developed yet as the others - though it is good software.

This is just my rant. ProTools has held the industry too long. OMF/EDL support has allowed other producers to use other software, so now it is only a matter of time. Also, the UADs need to become a little more efficeint to compete with Farm Cards still.

I like Samplitude 8 Pro with Mackie developing controllers, RME developing the audio hardware, and Universal Audio picking up the DSP processing on a larger scale. This is the ultimate DAW.

---Oh, and to stick to the topic of Yamaha buying Cubase - I think this is the demise of another great audio app. I just don't see Yamaha as the best competitor in the audio world.

[Jake Johnson]

Probably insignificant news---Yamaha is locked into the old hardware mode, where 50 megs of ROM samples is good. (They just released their new piano card for the S-80, S-90, Motif line, with under 30 megs of samples...) Steinberg will just keep producing Cubase and a few libraries.

It could be good news. They could go in the direction that's been obvious for the past 2-3years: create a $1,000 keyboard that can load samples fast, with whatever standard RAM you want, and a normal 40 gig IDE hard drive that the user can replace. Just a matter of coupling existing technology. But that would make their Motifs more instantly recognizable as obsolete. Instead, they'll release keyboards with 100 megs of ROM, capable of loading 500 megs of samples, and in another year, 525 megs of samples. In other words, Yamaha buying Steinberg just means that neither of them will create anything new or unexpected. Not to complain---they'e both doen wonderful things. But they won't do new things by being joined. Creative buys Ensoniq, but this time, Ensoniq will still exist, in name at least.

On the other hand, what do we really want? What would be the ideal new development? We have good controllers and good sample sets and sample players. We can now connect a fast CPU and hard drive to good software. I think the best new things will come from the ways libraries are created with existing technology.

[jazzbozo]

Dedicated hardware will have a place for years to come. Software and general purpose computers are flaky. I work in a field where there are many, many Powerpoint presentations. I've watched Powerpoint presentations for a decade, and a full 50% of all the presentations I've attended have had technical problems. Half! Doesn't matter where in the country you go: the projector won't work with the laptop, the laptop won't boot the presentation off the CDROM, I've never seen anyone successfully play a movie from Powerpoint (and dozens have tried). And this is a dumb slideshow program. What kind of confidence (Bruce exempted) does anyone have on a gig that their hard drive will work? What do you do if it locks up on you? I've been through 3 hard-drives in my computer over the past 5 years. I've NEVER had a hardware synth fail over the past 15 years. And this is the security that professional musicians expect and is delivered by Korg, Roland, and Yamaha.

Don't get me wrong, eventually, the big 3 will go to streaming samples. But not for a while, not until some failsafe mechanism is in place (maybe a new type of cheap multigigabyte ROM or maybe when rugged harddrives are cheap enough for RAID in a workstation). Yamaha will not tolerate their high profile artists having a Motif-type instrument crash during a concert. It would be professional suicide for their synth division.

Jazzbozo

[Alfalfa]

My predictions:
1) All but the technical people (programmers) and a few support personnel will be fired from Steinberg, thus gutting Steinberg of any individual personality other than Yamaha's German music software R&D laboratory
2) All sales and tech support will be handled through Yamaha
3) Motif will get Halion's disk streaming capabilities
4) Tascam will sue and it will spend years in the courts
5) Nuendo will be subsumed first into a Yamaha-only hardware situation to compete with high-end ProTools systems
6) Cubase SX 4 will be the next to subsumed into a Yamaha-only hardware solution to become competition for ProTools systems such as the 002/R
7) VST3 will become more proprietary, requiring licensing fees and approvals from Yamaha
8) VST3 will include mLan protocols
9) Someday in the future, musicians will talk about the old days when they played music on the same system where they typed e-mail and "surfed the internet" (cue laughter) -- How weird.

[ngstime]

Yep.... I remember when Gibson bought Opcode :) a match made in heaven

....and PC users are so thankful for Apple picking up Logic.

fun,fun,fun :o

[JonP]

Yamaha have made some decent and innovative hardware. For instance, they forged RCM synthesis and made some pretty stunning physical modelling gear (....although they left them back in the last decade). They now own a company that sometimes gets it right and makes decent software. I'm playing the optimist on this and betting that some great things could come from the merger.

[Houston Haynes]

There are plenty of successes and failures to go around when you're Yamaha they're so big that even their failures make money.

On the plus side, they nearly single-handedly created the digital synth market - and with technology licensed from an American university, to boot. So there is at least one good example of them taking a tack that no-one else thought of and launched onto the scene in a way that surprised nearly everyone.

Then again, they also ditched most of their operations in America right when I was relly getting into my SY99 and VL-70m. That's not to say that they weren't good instruments (as I got gigs and made money with them) but the longer term potential was just so "there" that it felt like they were abandoning things right as they got interesting. But in hindsight, they were right to back off of certain developments until the course of the industry was such that they could make a leap out front "just so" that the remainder of the industry can catch up and they are once again at the vanguard.

In pro audio circles, their current generation of digital audio consoles enjoy a good reputation, and full integration with Cubase and Nuendo is a compelling concept for pro studios looking for a good value/performance ratio. It looks like they're taking the best that dedicated DSP and native processing have to offer and putting the entire framework in a SDK and making it available for FREE. It certainly looks like they made a move to put them WAYYY out front of the other large musical instrument manufacturers, and are at least making a pretense of staying at arm's length. It at least gives a sense that they've found a way to maximize the positive while learning from their failures. How can that be bad?

[Nick Batzdorf]

What earthly reason would Yamaha have for buying Steinberg just to destroy it, Alfalfa? Companies only do that if they want to eliminate the competition. I promise you, your scenario isn't going to happen.

Lots of people thought Apple would do the same thing with Logic, and that's 180 degrees opposite to what they did. Of course they killed the Windows version; they're in the business of selling machines that compete with Windows. The Gibson/Opcode travesty was irrational. Apple and Yamaha are publicly held companies that would get sued by their investors if they behaved that way.

Yamaha knows that hardware is on the decline, despite jazzbozo's opinion, so they bought a great music software company with lots of strong products and an existing user base.

[Alfalfa]

Actually, my scenario could produce an interesting future. If Nuendo became a piece of a Yamaha hardware/software package like ProTools, I think it would penetrate the PT market in a way that Nuendo as software alone hasn't yet. They may keep VST as open as it is now for development. But, if I were sitting at Yamaha, I wouldn't leave this goldmine alone just to sell software. I'd use it to sell a solution like Digidesign has done so well. Besides, Steinberg has been a poorly performing software unit of Pinnacle, as well as a poorly performing software company on its own as far as actual revenue goes. If you were Yamaha, and had the huge potential of value-added to only your hardware, would you keep it open to others, or would you turn it into a gateway to sell your hardware? Ah, I just discovered how this is like Apple buying eMagic. It took me a day to figure out the obvious.

I wouldn't call it necessarily good or bad. I'd just call it change. And change affects different people differently. It is the degree of change that I believe will be most shocking to people. Maybe they will go on with an evolutionary change, but I doubt that maintaining a poorly performing software unit is in Yamaha's plans when that same software unit can bring added value to their hardware. For a few million dollars, Yamaha bought a lot of value added to Yamaha's current stable of products, or they bought a poorly performing software unit. We'll see though won't we? Whether we want to or not.

[Houston Haynes]

Yamaha knows that hardware is on the decline, despite jazzbozo's opinion, so they bought a great music software company with lots of strong products and an existing user base.Bingo!

Studio Connections - the protocol that is the basis for their "Total Recall" project, is available to all companies as a FREE SDK. So Yamaha gets to eat its cake and have it too - remain dedicated to pro audio hardware while connecting seamlessly to native-based solutions. The kicker is that they've left the door open for everyone else to walk through, too. That's the critical point you might be missing here, Alfalfa, and represents a "lessons learned" on Yamaha's part that you don't want to give them credit for. I guess only time will tell - but I have difficulty imaging that the relationship will be worse for Steinberg than the damage that Pinnacle did to them.

I'm really interested to see if Yamaha does revive their line of synths through emulations in software designed by Steinberg (and the contractors they use). Between the RCM and PM synths, I think they have a lot to offer - if they can find a way to release software without getting robbed blind and crippling their hardware sales. Maybe they're seeing it dwindle enough that migrating to software and the lower overhead is their ultimate goal... I'd think that we'd see a lot more prison labor in China lost to this acquisition than jobs for software developers in Germany.

[lion_tone]

Computers are too cost effective, and frankly, too damn good at Audio to ever lose their place as DAW hosts. If "the big 3" ever did go "hardware-only," some other program-just as good as Cubase, Sonar or whatever, would step up to the plate.

[charles]

Computers are too cost effective, and frankly, too damn good at Audio to ever lose their place as DAW hosts. If "the big 3" ever did go "hardware-only," some other program-just as good as Cubase, Sonar or whatever, would step up to the plate.

Thats actually a very good point, the vacuum left would be filled by newcomers like you say, in fact there are already up and coming sequencers that would have such a market

[Houston Haynes]

Thats actually a very good point, the vacuum left would be filled by newcomers like you say, in fact there are already up and coming sequencers that would have such a marketNah - the big 3 - when and if they enter the market - would never create a void in the native-based software sector. Ever. That's why Yamaha acquired Steinberg to begin with - get it? They're looking to take advatage of the things Steinbergis doing right - not redirect it into a vector that is clearly not in the long-term interest of their business. Think about it.

That being said, I think there will always be room for alternate host/sequencing/recording apps. As many tastes and working styles as there are out there (and those yet to be designed/discovered) it's to be expected. I just don't think it's going to happen as an effect of a large parent acquiring an "independent" sequencer platform and then killing it or otherwise making it no longer viable in the marketplace. That's just crazy-talk.

I want to see a software version of the TX-16W.... W.... W.... :eek:

Note: Anyone that knows what I'm talking about please give me a shout out...

[Ray Lindsley]

Up until about ten or so years ago, I was a Logic user. When it came time to upgrade to the latest Logic release, It was pretty obvious that they were only interested in supporting their proprietary soundcards that had just recently been introduced, and they were crap. I chose to spend the extra money to switch to Cubase so I would have the option of choosing a decent audio interface that would be supported. In retrospect, this proved to be a good decision based on the Apple/EMagic merger (I am a PC user). I would just as quickly abandon Cubase if Yamaha did the same, but I don't see that as very likely.

Steinberg's attempts to create hardware that integrates seemlessly with its software has had some pretty poor results (look at the Steinberg Houston), but they've always kept an open platform. I agree with those who have stated that computer based DAWs are too cheap and effective to be completely replaced. I do think that Yamaha will integrate as much hardware as they can to work seemlessly with the software, and I think the Protools analogy is valid. However, I don't think it would be to Yamaha's advantage to try to eliminate the ability to stay with a computer based DAW.

There are too many users out there that are not using their DAW to record a band in a live studio setting. They're using it as a virtual one man band using virtual instruments, samplers, loops, or a combination, to create the music all in the digital domain. They may need a mic input or two for vocals and a way to input a keyboard signal, but they don't need a mixer with 16 or more channels. A control interface is nice, but not essential. What has proven successful for the Cubase line is its scalability, and I can't see Yamaha abandoning that. They will have a big advantage owning the Steinberg, though, in the open market because a lot of consumers will feel that Yamaha gear is going to be a better fit with Steinberg going forward- they won't need to close the market.

Having said that, it's very hard to predict how a merger like this will turn out- the best laid plans...

[JonP]

Nah - the big 3 - when and if they enter the market - would never create a void in the native-based software sector. Ever. That's why Yamaha acquired Steinberg to begin with - get it? They're looking to take advatage of the things Steinbergis doing right - not redirect it into a vector that is clearly not in the long-term interest of their business. Think about it.



Absolutely right. It would be insane for them to deviate from such a successful path.

[mts]

Surely the world's largest musical instrument manufacturer is a better option than a consumer desktop video company. I can't think of another company that supports 'music' as much as Yamaha - music schools, real instruments, studio gear, computer etc... So what if they design a new hardware interface for Cubase/Nuendo? They'll still support other manufacturers, but as they will be creating the hardware and software they'll be able to write incredibly 'tight' integration - Steinberg's hardware has always been a little hit & miss and Pinnacle certainly wasn't going to build an "ICON"... I still think it's fantastic news!

Mark TS

[Nick Batzdorf]

If Nuendo became a piece of a Yamaha hardware/software package like ProTools, I think it would penetrate the PT market in a way that Nuendo as software alone hasn't yet

Add-on DSP for Nuendo? According to Steinberg's local representative, a dual Opteron running Nuendo has roughly the same power as a PT HD Accel system and costs roughly the same without the Mac. I can't confirm that from personal experience, but I haven't heard anyone complain about not having enough DSP in Nuendo.

Pro Tools is a success *in spite of* requiring proprietary hardware, not because of it. People like me have been using the PT software for years, and like it enough to put up with expensive hardware upgrades or (in my case) the hassle of keeping our PT MIX systems on separate computers so we don't have to abandon the platform. :)

***

Lee, you know that I disagree with you about Logic's audio editing. We agree on its strengths, but we disagree on the weaknesses compared to Pro Tools and other audio editors.

For me, Logic's fatal flaw in this department is that you can't just click on the waveform to park the cursor and transport where you want them. If you could just option/click like you can in the score editor, I could probably deal with the rest of the shortcomings, but there are very real reasons to use Pro Tools for some things.

...just as there are very real reasons for using Logic for composition.

[Nick Batzdorf]

Lee - I'm not saying it's a fatal flaw that makes Logic unusable, because I use it every day. It's only a fatal flaw for certain kinds of editing, like when you're spotting sfx to picture or making precise cuts in dialog or VO. And it's especially fatal if I have Pro Tools sitting there on the same machine as an alternative. :)

I really do need to be able to click on the waveform where I want to make an edit before making it. It's not that it takes so long to go to the ruler or anywhere else, it's that you can't find exact points very easily that way. Imagine trying to cut a K out of one word and pasting it onto another, for example. You don't want to be making selections in no stinkin' ruler.

And your tape analogy is perfect, except this is like using the greasepencil on the tape head instead of the tape. :)

[SWL]

Are you sure you're aware of and using all the features that are in Logic 7? There's an enormous amount there, more than most any application I can think of.

For level adjustment, you could use the track automation, or region based automation. There are some nice shortcuts, too. Hold down shift control and option while rubberbanding over an automation line, and Logic generates four nodes - two on each side of the region. It's then simple and fast to drag the center of the line up and down to adjust the gain of a particular section.

I don't understand what you mean about needing to go offline to adjust a level.

Lee Blaske

FYI: i've been a Logic user for almost 10 years. I can drive it ;-)

Sure, what you mentioned 'works' -- but in a time crunch (as in any video post environment) - it takes WAY too long to make simple edits in the arrange window. Automating is too many mouse clicks for what i need to do. So i have a dialogue track --- the announcer really!! steps on a word - it is 10 db above all the other material. So i make 2 cuts with the sissor tool, now it is a seperate clip - i pull down it's level with the handles (in Nuendo, or on a Fairlight) ... anyhow, that is 3 mouse clicks. Anymore than that, and its too much work. Ask and post guy. I have a 2 hour show, 140+ tracks, i need to work fast!!!!

When i get OMFs from video, i like to see his fades/level adjustments on the clips. Some i may keep, and save me time on the backend, but Logic disregards all of that info. Nuendo and ProTools retains it all - doesnt matter if it comes from Avid, Media100, FCP or Premiere. Not to mention OMF is COMPLETELY broken in Logic. Has been since the first OSX version. Just browse the Logic forums for a few minutes.

Logic is still far behind ProTools and Nuendo in audio editing features.

I'm not dogging Logic, i love it!! But for serious post work, it lacks serious features and usability of its competition.

Going offline: having to make destructive edits after dble-clicking on the waveform and opening Audio Editor. In Nuendo, i can non-destructively do anything from the arrange window.

Also - in Nuendos Audio Editor, i can for instance apply an effect to portions of the clip, once again - not available in Nuendo.

Sorry, its much too time consuming to argue about this - many others feel the way i do.

Nuendo saves me 10 hours a week of mouse clicking !!!!

[Alfalfa]

Well, everyone is just guessing what will happen anyway. I think that this is the biggest deal since Apple bought eMagic. Maybe bigger. While Steinberg may have engendered favor from its users, as a company and as a unit of Pinnacle, it has not performed well. That will have to matter to Yamaha. I just find it hard to believe that Yamaha will allow a semi-autonomous Steinberg unit to continue following a business model which has not performed well for them financially. I would expect Yamaha to enforce a business model on Steinberg which they are used to following, even if it ultimately destroys Steinberg. mLan doesn't give me much encouragement that Yamaha is interested in open protocols. I am willing and hoping to be wrong.

[Nick Batzdorf]

Yamaha makes a lot of knick-knacks and repackaged units, and yes they buy technology and adapt it, but don't forget that they also may be the single most innovative company in our industry.

For example:

DX-7
FB-01 (first inexpensive multitimbral synth)
SPX-90
VL1 (again, best synthesizer ever :))
ProMix01 (amazing mixer when it came out)
02R (ditto)

And even before that, their stereo equipment in the early '70s was absolutely killer. The cassette decks sucked (although later ones were really good), but their amps sounded absolutely gorgeous.

[Jim Wright]

mLan doesn't give me much encouragement that Yamaha is interested in open protocols. I am willing and hoping to be wrong.FWIW, I worked with Fujimori-san of Yamaha on the MIDI-over-1394 spec, and with him and others on an AES standards group looking at 1394 for pro audio.. These are all more-or-less open protocols. (IEC may charge for some of their 1394-related specs, but that's not Yamaha's fault). Yamaha has actually put a lot of effort into making 1394 viable for audio and MIDI work. mLan offers some additional services (such as connection management - patching and routing - across a set of mLan devices). Nevertheless, you don't have to use mLan to benefit from Yamaha's contributions to 1394. (Other companies ... Sony comes to mind ... have resisted anything that "distracts" from what they see as Firewire's primary target market: camcorders, home media centers etc.)

Of course, it's true that mLan is not open-source, and that mLan drivers have not had a stellar rep. It's also true that if I (as a developer) wanted to design a product using an mLan "node controller", Yamaha would license me (or anyone else) to do that, royalty-free. (Rolling your own node controller from scratch does require license fees, but if you can design ASICs and pay a silicon foundry to make them, royalites to Yamaha shouldn't be a barrier....) It's also true that getting technical info from them can be an amazing pain -- it was for me, sometimes, while working on 1394 specs -- but that's often language issues more than anything else (Japanese translators generally don't speak geek, and certainly don't understand it; Japanese rocket scientists rarely speak English all that well -- nor do US/English audio wizards speak fluent Japanese, very often).

Yamaha is certainly not perfect, but one shouldn't malign everything they do. Some of the people at Yamaha are bean-counters, but there are also a few visionaries, and some of what they do is really pretty cool.

I'm curious -- what do you think Yamaha should do with mLan ?

Best,

Jim

[Scott Cairns]

You know, a lot of people started forecasting on what Pinnacle was going to do for Steinberg; improved AV integration etc....

I guess we will have to see if Yamaha even hold on to Steinberg for any decent length of time before they might actually improve it it in some tangible way to the end user.

At least this time its a music company buying another one, hopefully this will be a good sign.

[Jim Wright]

One other point: Yamaha acquired a majority share in Korg quite a while ago. Yet, Korg has hardly withered -- in fact, they've enjoyed a fair bit of independence from Yamaha, while still getting access to various Yamaha technologies (the US-based Wavestation developers worked for Yamaha -- think SY22 -- until Yamaha slashed their overseas R&D in the late 80's). And Korg is a Japanese company, which would be much easier for Yamaha to "assimilate" than, say, Steinberg or another European company.

Putting up grave markers for Steinberg is waaaaaaayyy premature.

- Jim

[WayneSim]

The buyout doesn't bother me much at this stage... However, if Yamaha tried to go the "our software only works with our hardware" type of thing, like DigiDesign. Personally I would no longer use Cubase or any of there stuff. One of the major reasons I support Cubase over DigiDesign and ProTools, is because I refuse to get locked into one software/hardware setup. Sure if I had a massive studio that made lots of money it would be less releavant as I'd get both and run lots of computers. But for me, even if I did prefer ProTools at one point, I wasn't about to buy their hardware. That's a simple fact. Of course it's my personal choice. But lets just hope that there are many more years of Cubase SX use to come.

[Houston Haynes]

I'm curious -- what do you think Yamaha should do with mLan ?

Integrate (and grandfather) it into their Studio Connections initiative with Steinberg.

[SWL]

I agree. Using the rubber banding method I described, I would have done that operation in Logic with only two clicks, not three. Unless you need to move it time-wise in relation to other audio, making contiguous audio into a separate clip doesn't make sense to me. Why not just automate?

By all means, use what makes you happy. Be aware, however, that there are plenty of people who are quite happy with audio editing in Logic.

Lee Blaske

Please no offense - but i don't believe you really understand the convenience other platforms offer. Or maybe you do, and simply are defending Logic out of pure loyalty. ??????

Post guys don't use Logic - for the reasons i listed and many others. I automate maybe 30-40% of a show - the rest i must slash and hack the clips.

And i'll state again, fades and level adjustments to clips DO NOT translate into Logic from video application nor will Logic's 'fades' translate to video programs. That is a MAJOR set-back!

And THAT makes it un-usable in a video-post environment.

Let me reinerate - i believe that Logic is still the leading choice for composers.

If i were forced to mix records or shows in Logic - i would find another gig.

[toader]

The buyout doesn't bother me much at this stage... However, if Yamaha tried to go the "our software only works with our hardware" type of thing, like DigiDesign. Personally I would no longer use Cubase or any of there stuff. One of the major reasons I support Cubase over DigiDesign and ProTools, is because I refuse to get locked into one software/hardware setup. Sure if I had a massive studio that made lots of money it would be less releavant as I'd get both and run lots of computers. But for me, even if I did prefer ProTools at one point, I wasn't about to buy their hardware. That's a simple fact. Of course it's my personal choice. But lets just hope that there are many more years of Cubase SX use to come.

I completely agree here... if they try to change the open nature of Cubase, I think there will be major problems. I have been a very loyal Steinberg user for a long time now, and this is probably the one thing that would cause me to seriously consider switching to a different platform.

toader

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Actually, Logic, Nuendo, Cubase, ProTools, etc...

NONE of these environments are as easy to edit in as Vegas. You guys should try it sometime. Butter.

[Houston Haynes]

I completely agree here... if they try to change the open nature of Cubase, I think there will be major problems. I have been a very loyal Steinberg user for a long time now, and this is probably the one thing that would cause me to seriously consider switching to a different platform.

toader

Unclench the sphinctors, boys. Yamaha acquired Steinberg to capitalize (literally) on what it does well, not to convert them to a failed standards development model. It is Yamaha's tacit admission that some of their previous attempts were a failure, and they have opted to buy into a widely accepted platform standard (VST and ASIO) in order to get back into the game.

R-E-L-A-X

[Houston Haynes]

Actually, Logic, Nuendo, Cubase, ProTools, etc...

NONE of these environments are as easy to edit in as Vegas. You guys should try it sometime. Butter.

I have Vegas 5.0b and like it quite a bit. A surprising amount of stuff you see on TV and the indie films circuit gets cut on Vegas, and for good reason. The editing environment is quite nice. If it was the only task I had to do, I would go to it more often.

[scharles]

Hi There:

Remeber that we are on the verge of 64 bit processors and dual processors on a single die...making 4 processor machines affordable.

So I would go to a couple of MB manufactures such as Tyan and have them make me a gaming/server MB. Tyan is on the verge this with s2895 MB. Get it Stable. Then go visit the evil empire MS and get them to build a stripped down version of Window and make it stable.

Yamaha then they would be able to support Nuendo and Cubase because they hardware and OS equation would be know. (Just go to the PT web site and see the hardware supported pages).

For the past year there have been several producers/engineers using dual AMD OPT's, Nuendo, and the DM2000. I can't say who...but they have dumped PT and are quite successful and make alot money using this exact combination!!!!

If I were Yamaha I would view my competition as PT.

It I were PT I would be burning a lot of Midnight oil. The is one of the worse senarios for them.

Charlie :rolleyes:

[scharles]

Hi There:

Forgot one important piece. If I were Yamaha I would license Finale and put a really score creation program in place with in Cubase and Nuendo. Sorry Sibellius users. I use both and I find Sibellius editing cumbersome. Besides once you have a sequencer of the Steinberg caliaber in place Sibellius MIDI transalation engine become redundant.

Charlieundefined :cool:

[mts]

For the past year there have been several producers/engineers using dual AMD OPT's, Nuendo, and the DM2000. I can't say who...but they have dumped PT and are quite successful and make alot money using this exact combination!!!!


I also personally know some 'top engineer/producers' who have dumped PT for Nuendo. If I wasn't a Soundscape user, I'd probably do the same. Anyway, it's about time the PT had some serious competition, it's never been the best... just the most widely used.

Mark TS

[Nick Batzdorf]

Lee, you're absolutely right about the marquis tool. I didn't know about shift/clicking with it.

Now I'm going to have to see whether there are commands for all the other things I use...

[Bruce A. Richardson]

YESSS!! HE SCORES! Off I go to write this up in the ol' diary.

I'm on cloud nine. I can't let the exhilaration go to my head, though, or I might do something really foolish like taking another whack at trying to convince Bruce that content copy protection is a GOOD thing. ;)

Lee Blaske
All I have to say is, eat your Wheaties. Then again, it's getting very chilly down here in Hell, and I even think I saw a pig fly by earlier today.

[Alfalfa]

I'm curious -- what do you think Yamaha should do with mLan ?

I guess something like VST where someone can sign an online agreement and get instant access to the development kit. We might be surprised what kind of small hardware companies can pop up in such an environment.

The reasoning behind my "predictions" (more like theories of possibility) has to do with piracy and stability. Just looking at the feature set and price of Nuendo 3, it is a perfect match for a high-end hardware unit as well. I've been a true believer that the PC(Mac)-Windows(OSX)-chooseyourownhost-chooseyourownsynth method is the future, but my faith is no longer so firm. If Yamaha can take the best of this system and put it back into a hardware system with more stability (because it is a closed system to which they write code rather than attempting to plan for every possible configuration). I could see that along with keeping Cubase native and available for PCs and Macs. Maybe the current product lineup will remain unchanged, but with a hardware option as well. Any such change would reallocate at least some of Steinbergs resources.

The bottom line is still the bottom line. It seems to me that Yamaha will want to get something more out of the Steinberg assets than has been seen in the recent past. I didn't mean to imply that Yamaha did not have visionaries that work there. Quite the contrary, actually. I believe that they have their own vision of what to do with Steinberg, or will develop their own, and it may not be congruous with the way Steinberg has worked or developed in the past. It is because Yamaha has its own vision that I think changes will occur at Steinberg. While the thoughts I mentioned, if they were to occur, would be an uncomfortable switch for current Steinberg customers who have setups based on Steinberg's current model, even they might prefer a more closed system when it came time for the next upgrade if it had the benefits of Cubase+VST.

As for the company itself, I don't think programmers will be losing jobs, but others perhaps. I think some of the programmers will get new assignments.

Maybe I'm just seeing it through the prism of Apple buying a software company to protect and boost its hardware sales.

[Houston Haynes]

I thought I'd dig up this old thread and take a look at what's happened over the past few years since Yamaha acquired Steinberg. There were people that were predicting "doom and gloom" on both extremes - that either
Yamaha was going to turn Steinberg into a closed shop and wither on the vine -- or -- Steinberg was going to be left to founder at arms length - wither on the vine - and get sold off once again.
Well, it seems that neither of the extremes have happened to this point. In fact, there have been some really interesting developments of late that I think are worth talking about - since it looks like Yamaha and Steinberg are showing signs getting things right in the integration department while continuing to support a relatively open platform approach.

The first surprise came when I took a look at replacing my venerable Kurzweil MIDIBoard, which was beginning to truly fall apart after so many years. I stumbled across the Yamaha KX series of MIDI controller keyboards (http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/kx/index.html)- inexpensive to be sure, but not necessarily cheap - the smaller models have a decent spring-weighted keyboard (for blowing synth riffs or straight-ahead MIDI sequencing input) and interesting integration features across the board. While missing aftertouch, the plusses definitely outweigh the minuses. I bought the KX61 to tie me over until some other large-format keyboard controllers hit the streets, but now that I've had some time with the KX61 I'm seriously tempted to try out the pseudo-weighted action of the KX8.

There are plenty of controls not only for handling transport and navigation within Cubase (the AI version comes bundled with the keyboard, along with a bunch of other limited versions of third party soft synths) but there are also quite a few controls for making seriously deep control of soft synths. Of course they're pre-fabbed to directly connect to the synths that come with Cubase - as well as the third party bundled content, but you can also program your own templates for accessing any other bit of kit you have in your rig. Of course, the hooks into Cubase and Nuendo are nearly automatic, but the KX series also has controller modes that allow it to work as a front end for Digital Performer or Sonar - and looks to be some form of Mackie control surface emulation. So there's a balance of deep integration with Steinberg products while continuing to support other applications and protocols.

On the Yamaha side of things they have the n-series digital mixers (http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/n8n12/index.html) that act as a FireWire audio interface, control surface and DSP resource for Cubase. Likewise, there's quite a bit of buzz about the new Steinberg audio interfaces that are about to hit the streets. They're essentially Yamaha hardware and DSP techology (that seem to borrow heavily from the n-series digital mixers), with deep integration capabilities with Steinberg software. Not just making the on-board DSP available as a full VST3 plugin (read - Rev-A reverb with no need for delay compensation and no DSP load on the CPU) but also handling things like instant recall for things like Control Room routing. The physical controls on the interface also act as an entry point for controlling Cubase in many circumstances. Again, I'd imagine that anyone could use these devices as a general ASIO front end to their DAW of choice, but they're using mLAN, Studio Connections and probably some other "special sauce" that makes the case for an integrated installation fairly compelling.

On the synthesizer front, the Motif Rack XS (http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=6837)sports a new OS update that allows it to integrate with a Cubase setup as well - even sharing an mLAN data pipe with up to two MR816 audio interfaces. Again, not only can you instantiate instrument tracks in Cubase that seamlessly leverage the synth DSP on the Motif Rack XS, but the editing interface for the synth can be opened like editing a software based plugin and you wouldn't notice the difference except for the *lack* of hit to your CPU.

Let's also not forget the third party "professional" consoles and applications that integrate with Nuendo in ways that no Yamaha digital mixer has demonstrated thus far. Euphonix (http://www.euphonix.com/) and WK Audio (http://www.wk-audio.de/en/controllerid/c/d) have produced well-recieved hardware that has really gotten the attention of the audio and tv/film/broadcast post communities. And now SmartAV (http://www.smartav.net/index.php) has launched the Tango control surface that uses the same high-density/high-bandwidth communication layer at a price point that fits between the higher-priced controllers and the MIDI-based Mackie-styled alternatives. There's also the Virtual Katy (http://www.virtualkaty.com/) application suite that uses the same hooks to automatically re-order events in the Nuendo time line - pure magic when you see it in action. There was a lot of support that Steinberg had to throw toward those efforts, and continue to do so even though it would *seem* to run against the goals of Yamaha to sell more of their high-end consoles. So I think a lot could be said for Steinberg's continuing commitment to supporting a relatively open platform (both in regard to IP and general technological approach) while increasing their touchpoints with the Yamaha hardware and technologies.

With all of that said, some of these integration points are relatively new or are just reaching a level of maturity that they can be held up as a paragon example - and up to this point there have been some bumps along the way. The launch of the VST3 spec and SDK was met with consternation, skepticism, and outright distain from third party developers. And in most cases, that reaction was well deserved. The VST3 spec when it was first published was *not* ready for prime time by all accounts (outside of Steinberg). Likewise, there are users that are still looking for a Steinberg application that can properly scale to more than four cores on their DAW, so it's not to say that everything is perfect - by any means.

My point is that things between Steinberg and Yamaha are looking like they're converging nicely after technologies and cultures have had a chance to mesh over the past few years. And I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is - since I'm looking for ways to upfit my studio, some of the gear I've mentioned above is at the top of my list to consider as I look for ways to improve my workflow and operate on a larger scale. But what's great is that I still have a plethora of other options to consider as well - which is a tribute to Steinberg and Yamaha's continued commitment to an open model.

I'd be interested to hear/read what other people have to say about it - now that there's been enough time to reflect on then versus now.

[EricWatkins]

Nice read. Even better, it's good to see that your still around despite being a busy LA based composer. I have to say that I agree that things are coming together nicely between Yamaha and Steiny. Honestly, at about the time of the acquisition, I think alot of people were really concerned with Steinberg period. It just seemed like a lot of people were being left in the dark with major bugs in Cubase and Nuendo. I didnt KNOW things were going to get better but I did figure that a company the size of Yamaha, once fully integrated into Steinberg's development team, would surely run the show more responsibly than Steinberg was by itself. I just cant wait till my motorcycle has VST3 support.:D

E

[Robobino]

My Midex 8 will always remember... :(

[Gesticulator01]

I particularly like the n-series. I've read that the design mantra for it is daw integration rather than automation - though a great next step would be to integrate more automation (faders?) into their integration...so to speak.

[Alfalfa]

I was wrong. I was glad I was wrong. I liked the direction Yamaha/Steinberg has headed, so I bought Cubase 4 (switching from another host) and stopped worrying about what would happen next. There seems to be enough room for multiple DAW platforms.

[kitekrazy]

Well Yamaha buying a software company is nothing compared to Tascam buying a software company. Yamaha knows what it was doing and they were in the software business as well. I still have a copy of XG Works somewhere.

I never understood the panic over this.