OT: Help! What do I do? (Business question)

[chriscaouette]

Hi all,
Well the referal game has started. I did the music for a short (freebe) and that person has refered me to someone else. This new person's company makes extremely low budget slasher films and has some distribution (Borders, Best Buy, Blockbuster...etc). The budjets are so tiny that this is a copy/credit only job. My question is how or should I ask about residual payment on sold product through their distribution and if so what is the proper percentage or amount?

This is that weird area where the jobs start coming in and at some point you have to say show me the money. The flip side is I don't have many film scoring credits and I could use more.

Thanks in advance,
Chris

[James W.G. Smith]

How low budget are we talking here? I have done some SUPER low budget stuff but still have been paid for them (even though it was practically nothing). I usually just go by 2.5% of the budget, and if that amount is too low I just license the score to them. Food for thought. Bottom line is I would never do a project for copy/credit. Ask for a percentage of the rentals or something.

James W.G. Smith

[fozzy]

My advice is the same as Sharmy's below, except:

If it doesn't match at least 2 of those criteria.. I'd walk.


I find tracking someones sales as something I would rather not do, unless you have someone to monitor it for you or you like that kind of thing then i would decide on other factors.

1. Will this possibly lead to better work (better connections...director on the way up...etc)
2. Is it fun
3. Will you learn a lot from the experience
4. Is the money worth the effort

If it does not match any of this critera...walk
If it does match any of the critera then go with your gut.

[chriscaouette]

Thanks for the replys. When I say low budget it is about $2000. That really doesn't leave much in the way of anything for the music. This is why I was thinking of the licensing deal. How much would be normal per unit sold? So far it fits three of the four criteria as there is no money yet. Actually, #1 is probably the bigger one here as so far this was from a referal from my first job (which has no distibution like this). It a way it is a step in the right direction.
Chris

[John DeBorde]

Thanks for the replys. When I say low budget it is about $2000. That really doesn't leave much in the way of anything for the music. This is why I was thinking of the licensing deal. How much would be normal per unit sold? So far it fits three of the four criteria as there is no money yet. Actually, #1 is probably the bigger one here as so far this was from a referal from my first job (which has no distibution like this). It a way it is a step in the right direction.
Chris

how certain is the chance of distribution? Even if the budget is small up front, the producer probably has some idea what they will bring in once it's distributed. rather than try to get a percentage of the sales, i would ask for a lump sum that is triggered when they get distribution, and possibly bonus sums triggered if their revenue passes certain milestones.

and whatever you do, don't give up the publishing/do a "work for hire" unless you are well paid for it!

getting experience is a must, but don't sell yourself short. it sounds like they are doing this to make money, so you should insist on being paid something, even if it seems trivially small.

congrats!

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Business answer:

If you work for no money, you will get referrals as a person who will work for no money.

So, as a principal (composer) on a project, either a) get paid up front sufficient to compensate your time and contribution, b) get guaranteed back-end based upon the gross sales, or c) walk.

[chriscaouette]

Alrighty. I have enough to go with now so thank you all for the input. Ah the joys of the heavey competition.
Chris

[aplanchard]

Business answer:

If you work for no money, you will get referrals as a person who will work for no money.

So, as a principal (composer) on a project, either a) get paid up front sufficient to compensate your time and contribution, b) get guaranteed back-end based upon the gross sales, or c) walk.


I could not agree more. The production was made with $2000, with intent to make further $. Either the 2000 was spread over several contributors or the producers took a do-it-yourself approach. In either case, one should not expect the music, an integral part of the success of such visual media, to be generated for nothing.

[midphase]

Hello Chris,

I think you're better off passing on this one. A slasher film made for under $2000 is definitely not something that you want to be associated with. It could hurt your carreer more than help it. As a matter of fact, I think you should be upsaet at your friend for referring you to these guys. And as far as the deferred payment goes, the chance of you ever seeing any money from this is so slim that you might as well play the lottery instead!

If you need credits, find some talented student directors which have projects with more credibility and that will ultimately help your carreer more.

[chriscaouette]

Hello Chris,

I think you're better off passing on this one. A slasher film made for under $2000 is definitely not something that you want to be associated with. It could hurt your carreer more than help it.

I think thats the best advice yet. Thanks Kays. I was already on the edge of respectfully declining.
Chris

[Tomke]

Agreeing with many of the above.

I've moved around some, and both myself and other musicians I know will testify one thing: Whenever you move into a new area - either physically or "move into a new direction in life" - and you have resources people can use, then the first 5-10 ones that is going to spot your abilities and want to use them are almost always people from the bottom-end of the buisness that you don't wanna stay with for too long. No disrespect to poeple who keep a low profile, but you know what I mean ... there are plenty of unemployed bedside guitarists who would love to have you do arrangements and stuff for them to get their name out, only to spread the word around that you are a no good wannabe if they don't get their way. Those kinds of situations may lock you up doing stuff you don't respect yourself for a long time. I've been there ...

So, be selective in the beginning ... ;)

[Mandarin Man]

b) get guaranteed back-end based upon the gross sales
Just wondering how you would ever be able to verify sales in terms of copies sold? You could make a license for this, but is there a way you can actually inspect some figures? Are there companies that specialize in this sort of thing?

Thanks,

Roy

[Rob Elliott]

Hello Chris,

I think you're better off passing on this one. A slasher film made for under $2000 is definitely not something that you want to be associated with. It could hurt your carreer more than help it. As a matter of fact, I think you should be upsaet at your friend for referring you to these guys. And as far as the deferred payment goes, the chance of you ever seeing any money from this is so slim that you might as well play the lottery instead!

If you need credits, find some talented student directors which have projects with more credibility and that will ultimately help your carreer more.

Sage advice ;)

[Mandarin Man]

Ask if you can sit in on the casting session. http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif

Hahaha! Good one. http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Seriously, what about say, medium budget indie films. Any way to check out how a film is doing figure-wise, except via the production company itself?