Powercore as good as System 6000 ?

[SyQuEsT]

Some of my friends told me that the Powercore is as good as the System 6000 ... is it true ?

Thanks

[DPDAN]

Some of my friends told me that the Powercore is as good as the System 6000 ... is it true ?

ThanksIf you're talking about reverb, I have never heard a system 6000 in person, but I own the Powercore Firewire and the reverbs in it totally stink compared to my 20 year old Lexicon 200 which retailed for $4800.00 when I bought it back in the mid 80's. The lexicon sounds beautiful and like a real acoustic environment, while the powercore sounds like an SPX 90, real stringy and cheap sounding. When the Powercore Firewire reverb has to process a pure tone, like a sustained violin without vibrato, it acts like a sampler and just extends the tone without coloring it like a reverb processor should. Solo violins and other legato high pitched instruments sound absolutely horrible in it, regardless of the room size, or any of the other settings. Believe it or not, even the older classicverb in the Powercore firewire blows the doors off the mega reverb version 3.42, at least for pretty orchestral stuff.
Now, for pop oriented instruments, it is great when the reverb time is short enough. I was totally expecting the reverbs in the Powercore Firewire to reasonably replace my Altiverb when I was running OS9, but nope. I have been able to get by with it, but I almost always use the old Lexicon, and print the verb to a stereo track. If I need to remix, I just turn on the old Lex and go to the preset or change the settings to the comments that I recorded in the comments portion of the reverb track in DP, and re-record new verb.
Sorry to poke fun at an otherwise fantastic piece of gear. The other stuff in it is awesome! Just don't buy it for your only reverb. :(

DPDAN

[SyQuEsT]

Thanks ... we will have a System 6000 (sounds incredible) for the plugins, we have a Sydec Soundscape with a Mixpander (9 CPU, VST compatible).

[hv]

Sounds like a killer system. My guess is that the TC Reverb plugin for the Soundscape would have at least equalled that of a Powercore. But I think you'll find the 6000 a totally different beast, with it's hundreds of VSS3 and VSS4 reverbs running multichannel at any rate and source. You just need to make sure you provide 8 high speed AES/EBU I/O's for it.

Howard

[jkerr]

You can get as good of a reverb as possible for free with SIR. Download some IRs from noisevault and you can't go wrong. Not even a PC or UAD hold up when it comes to algorithm vs. IR. You can even download Lexi IRs that sound awesome. A latency-free version is in the works if you need it realtime. I use it post. I rely on it.

[Scott Cairns]

I must admit Im not as enamoured with the Powercore reverbs as when I first got the card.

The reverbs that help shape the character of a sound are good, for example a percussion reverb with a low diffusion (I think its low, I can never remember which). But a transparent type reverb just isnt do-able with the Poco IMHO.

Some of the best software reverb I've heard is the Waves IR1 (dont have a Mac so havent experienced Altiverb first hand.)

SIR is good but the only decent ir's I ever heard through it are the Sony DRE-777s. SIR is a CPU hog though, not so good for working with until final render unless you've got heaps of juice in your hardware.

[SiliconAudioLabs]

Yep I agree with DPDAN on the Lexicon stuff & Powercore.

Also, I took ALL the reverb plug-ins out of the first "go-to" list and inserted external send/returns in PT bus to my 224XL - 480L - 300 and even my PCM70 as well.

I will never look back. And it's odd I'm not really sure WHAT happened. Even Altiverb has lost it's luster. Hardware converters may be the issue.

I'm starting to see this phenomenon of thinking around a number of forums lately too.

[DPDAN]

hmmm, weird about the Altiverb loosing it's lustre :(

I really liked using the Altiverb in DP before I went OSX and DP4. I really don't think it hogged too much CPU for what it was doing. It's also really nice to load a project and have everything right there ready to go, just like it was when you last used it.
We don't get that luxury with outboard processors. :(
I love the old Lexicons, it's a sentimental thing too, but the sound is just so wonderful.
DPDAN

[SiliconAudioLabs]

hmmm, weird about the Altiverb loosing it's lustre :(

It's also really nice to load a project and have everything right there ready to go, just like it was when you last used it.

DPDAN

Really good point DPDAN and that's EXACTLY why we drifted away from the outboards. Then slowly and very subtly we started using them again - more and more. We started to reference between the two and started A/B'ing and blind testing with engineers and our clients - the results were that the Lexicon’s were almost always the preference.

I was about to sell the 300 and I’m glad I didn’t. While the Altiverb Impulses (and engine) rated higher among the other IR’s they never EVER really add that “width, color & bigness” & while that’s okaaaay… sometimes you WANT a reverb to do that and the IR’s sort of never want to chalk it over.

Also more often than not the preferred Impulse for Altiverb, SD & R1 was the SYNTHETIC!?! “digital” reverb impulses...hmmmm (lightbulb!) we starting to do some serious thinking.

It’s all just perception so no big thing, it’s just that it's really REALLY counter intuitive to what the promise was (or is) from all the current IR technology not to mention the frustration of having make another U-turn.

Oh well, two steps forward – three steps….?

[hv]

TC announced a Power Core VSS3 reverb package at NAMM:

http://www.tcelectronic.com/VSS3PowerCore

If you can run these at 96K in stereo, that would put the Power Core on par with a 6000. I have a Rev4000 and it'll only process 1 channel at a time at 96K.

Howard

[DPDAN]

from all the current IR technology not to mention the frustration of having make another U-turn.

Oh well, two steps forward – three steps….?
Your observation and willingness to post it here is ingenious!
I agree, however I am really thrilled with using GS3's G-Pulse too! :)
I use it in real time with a stereo Aux send from Digital performer via ADAT lightpipes during midi project sequence building. Then I will use two or three varitaions of the same IR in groups for orchestral mixing. I love it, and my Lex is still connected. ;)


Howard, I'll take a look at the new verb by TC, but it probably won't be much improvement over the ones already in Powercore Firewire.
IMO, it certainly won't be worth buying,,, but who knows. I am really ticked at TC for making their Powercore reverbs sound so poorly. I mean come on, even an old Alesis reverb sounds better on Orchestral stuff.

Thank you for the heads up Howard. I was losing interest from visiting the TC website. The Powercore Firewire unit otherwise is an extremely powerful piece of gear, and I would not want to be without it. :D

DPDAN

[hv]

I think the reverbs that come with the Powercore are M2000 vintage. The dual engine M3000 VSS3 reverbs are much better source-based algorithms including many halls and rooms plus hundreds of patches geared towards recreating spaces for application in film. The source based reverbs use a ray-tracing algorithm which yields really good results. The VSS4 reverbs take it a step farther and are quite a bit easier to use... hopefully they aren't far behind.

Howard

[DPDAN]

It will be interesting to see how proud TC is of this new reverb.
I will pass on it though. I bet it will be $399.99.

DPDAN

[SiliconAudioLabs]

Your observation and willingness to post it here is ingenious!
I agree, however I am really thrilled with using GS3's G-Pulse too! :)
I use it in real time with a stereo Aux send from Digital performer via ADAT lightpipes during midi project sequence building. Then I will use two or three varitaions of the same IR in groups for orchestral mixing. I love it, and my Lex is still connected. ;)

DPDAN

Ohhh man I'm gonna check that out. Only had a little bit of time to check out the G-Pulse - sounded good but just not enough time... now I'm going to have to try that combo.

I have the feeling a combo of the hardware verbs and maybe a a blend of the IR's for the tails.... hmmmmm...jus thinking out loud now...