Little piece done with Synful [Archive]

Lux

01-07-2005, 06:39 AM

Chadwick

01-07-2005, 07:35 AM

Sounds great - lovely piece with lots of expression, lots of variation within the sounds.

Did you have to do much 'post performance' tidying up to make it sound right?

SWL

01-07-2005, 08:22 AM

I'm sorry I just don't know what all the fuss is about - to my ears Sybful sounds like a cheap synth. Why would you want to use that when you have Siler/Gold/Platinum?

:rolleyes:

Perhaps you should goto the other related thread .....

MCS

01-07-2005, 08:36 AM

I like your piece, very nice!

Hm, well the sound of synful could be improved of cource, but I don´t know an other synth which creates such expressive lines, and that´s the point.
Just my 2 cent.

Best,
Michael

Rob Elliott

01-07-2005, 08:47 AM

What really strikes me on this very good demo is the sting accomp part - very expressive and real sound to my ears.

Rob

(did you have to do a lot of post editing to get that expressive - not just volume but held note swells?)

Lux

01-07-2005, 09:01 AM

Thanks guys for comments.

About the post editing, just on clarinet I adjusted some overlapping when I needed more legato, just because I do it not well with keyboard (I play guitar)

All lines are played in real time. Most effects can be done with you fingers once you understand the logic. Just a dosage of pressure and overlapping. The rest is done by the phrasing interpreter (ehr...well, the only thing I know is that I didnt do it http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif).

The only volume control drawing is on final chord to achieve a smooth crescendo from zero. No other controllers drawed into the piece.

Ditto on what Michael said about Synful.

Ciao
Luca

Rob Elliott

01-07-2005, 09:23 AM

Hmmm :rolleyes: , I know how 'long' I have to work in VSL PE to get these results. This may be an excellent 'companion' (doubler) product now and even 'replacement' product later. The potential seems very bright for this technology.

Rob

FredProgGH

01-07-2005, 11:07 AM

Yes, I think that as people are getting Synful in their hands the quality of demos is improving by leaps and bounds!! The string work on this is outstanding. How did you achieve the ensemble effect- how many violins, played seperately or copied data, etc. It sounds excellent.

Nice tune as well, btw!!

(A thought- if you have a traditional string lib I'd love to hear this with the strings doubled with samples as a comparison.)

Rob Elliott

01-07-2005, 11:34 AM

ditto on Fred and Craig's question.....

Thanks (the imagination goes wild with what is possible to do in string arrangements - especially in accomp - without the 'sucking' sound. This string accomp seem to have fluidity and real 'motion' and expression.

Rob

Lux

01-07-2005, 11:36 AM

Thanks Craig!

Fred: Thanks! loved your examples too. About the ensemble effect...well...I have to say that I didnt anything to achieve it. There are on average 2 or 3 violins playing divisi. I just played all on a single track. Same for cello. I didnt applied any strings doubling. I just tried to apply the pressure and legato that I felt sounded better and trying to alternate legato and non-legato notes to achieve more expressivity.

My guess is that the ensemble effect is due to the fact I applied an Hall reverb setup (that I'm more used to and I prefer), instead of a chamber one, most used for single instruments.

Edit: hehe Rob, you were faster http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

Luca

Hardy Heern

01-07-2005, 11:54 AM

I'm sorry I just don't know what all the fuss is about - to my ears Sybful sounds like a cheap synth. Why would you want to use that when you have Siler/Gold/Platinum?
If you don't know what all the fuss is about then you'll be happy as you are then.....right? That's all that matters.

To my ears, which is what matters to me, the story is completely different!:)

Frank

I just noticed, you've been listening to Sybful....you need to listen to Synful!:)

Hardy Heern

01-07-2005, 11:57 AM

Luca, a lot of interesting stuff in this, for the ear to consider! Very nice.

Frank

Rob Elliott

01-07-2005, 12:09 PM

If you don't know what all the fuss is about then you'll be happy as you are then.....right? That's all that matters.

To my ears, which is what matters to me, the story is completely different!:)

Frank

I just noticed, you've been listening to Sybful....you need to listen to Synful!:)

Couldn't agree more Frank. Listening to the string ensemble at :20-:30 and :53-1:11 I am just astonished. Can't wait to give it a test spin.

Rob

charles

01-07-2005, 02:52 PM

Lux

01-07-2005, 03:55 PM

Nice piece lux.
Did you have to do any tuning of the Clarinet?
Have you tried writing something with just winds? for example a wind quintet.
Why i asked i just wondered if it works because no one is really trying block harmonies of windsThanks Charles. Nope, I didnt apply any tuning settings. Those instruments are quite in tune together. Some other have some tuning issues. I guess at Synful will fix it soon. Meanwhile one can modify the tuning knobs inside it.

I'm obviosly in a minority of one - I'll have to get a demo of Synful and take a longer look at it.Dont worry, its mainly a matter of taste. I'm not an paid advertiser of Synful, so...if you dont like it...no problem http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif. I got many sample libs and have fun with them. I had fun with Synful too, expecially for expressivity of playing, thats why I did the piece.

Edit: Thanks Frank!

Luca

Lux

01-07-2005, 04:18 PM

I didn't mean to offend - and no reflection on your skill as a composer. Just my initial reaction. I've recently got Gold and loving it and Synful just seemed miles away from that quality of sound.No offense taken http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

Luca

Alexcremers

01-07-2005, 06:03 PM

Nice tune indeed. My only comment is that the clarinet "player" should take a few more breathing pauzes.

------------
Alex Cremers

navidson

01-07-2005, 06:15 PM

It's an excellent piece, and its definatly a good showcase for how good Synful can sound. However, does the Clarient sound slightly out of tune to anyone else? Have my ears gone mad?

Mattias Henningson

01-07-2005, 06:28 PM

However, does the Clarient sound slightly out of tune to anyone else?
No, your ears are fine if you ask me. The clari is definitely out of tune.

/Mattias

Rich Pell

01-07-2005, 08:10 PM

No, your ears are fine if you ask me. The clari is definitely out of tune.

/Mattias

I actually like that 'out of tune' clarinette. Kind of innocent.
Still cant believe were NOT listening to samples or a real ensemble..Its a frigin` VST Synth!! :eek:

Ken-P

01-08-2005, 12:56 AM

Nice tune!!!

To my ear, it sounded like high school kids sight-reading, which is great in this case. I can wait to see the developer at NAMM.

Lux

01-08-2005, 05:36 AM

Thanks Alex, navidson, Mattias, Rich and Kentaro. Your comments are much appreciated!

Absolutely agree about breathing pauses.

About the out of tune, I can hear it, but honestly in this case while playing I didnt find it too disturbing. As Rich and Kentaro said, the slightly out of tune in this case sounds a bit innocent also to me, but its a matter of taste.

Thanks
Luca

Synful

01-08-2005, 06:15 PM

Yesterday I made this small piece, with Synful, just in time before my trial ends.

violin, cello, bass, clarinet, horn and bassoon.

The glocken is from Silver.

http://www.archisounds.com/amadea.mp3

Luca

Great demo. I will review the tuning issues. Do people think the clarinet out of tune with itself or can it be brought into tune with the sliders.

MCS

01-09-2005, 04:03 AM

Great demo. I will review the tuning issues. Do people think the clarinet out of tune with itself or can it be brought into tune with the sliders.

In my ears not with itself.. with adjusting the sliders it´s ok

Best,
Michael

RickD

01-09-2005, 11:20 AM

Great demo. I will review the tuning issues. Do people think the clarinet out of tune with itself or can it be brought into tune with the sliders.

the clarinet is about 7 cents sharp. I haven't tried all the notes though, that was in the key of D from a3 to d4.

Rick

Ouch that hurts

01-09-2005, 11:30 AM

I'm obviosly in a minority of one - I'll have to get a demo of Synful and take a longer look at it.

Not quite - I agree. Those string accompaniment parts sounds horrid to me, utterly metallic and synth-like. I'm not sure why as I like the Beethoven quartet demo at the Synful site, and I think the violin solo towards the end is lovely. Maybe some wierd stuff that happens as the instruments are piled up.

The clarinet is OK, but the legato and note attacks don't sound convincing. Certainly not as good as the better sample libraries available.

Lux - no reflection on your piece here, which I think is beautiful. I just agree with awp that most of these sounds are not there yet, in relation to what else is available. I'm fascinated by that solo violin though.

Funny how subjective these things are.

Ouch that hurts

01-09-2005, 11:35 AM

Funny, I just listened to Rob's little folky improv on the other thread and noticed the same thing - the strings astonish me when played alone, then completely lose me when played together. The chords just sound lifeless and "scrapy" to me. Maybe they just need more reverb or something, I dunno. But the detail in the soloistic articulations is incredible.

I can well imagine using this for a solo violin part over a lovely bed of sampled orchestral strings. Hmmm.....

Up Late

01-09-2005, 12:35 PM

Synful is so good at many things. It's all about the expression, especially in the strings. Nothing up to this point has ever brought me close to buying a PC, but I'm going to have to make an exception here, unless they can hurry up with the Mac version (I can't wait 6 months).

Vibrato on sustained notes needs some humanized variation in rate, depth, etc., as would occur naturally with a real player. This is where Synful needs to improve to really deliver all the goods.

As part of our regular arsenal, Synful is going to provide some welcome expression that not even VSL (and I have the complete Pro Edition) can provide.

Luca -- So that we can marvel undistracted, can you post only the strings of your piece?

Thanks.

Lux

01-09-2005, 05:55 PM

Luca -- So that we can marvel undistracted, can you post only the strings of your piece?

Thanks.

sorry...trial ended... :o

Up Late

01-09-2005, 06:31 PM

Lux

01-09-2005, 06:46 PM

Listened to that vibrato again and it's a deal breaker. Too bad -- for all the lengths Synful has gone to provide all this wonderful expression, the vibrato is terrible. Hopefully, since they have solved so many performance issues already, they can remedy this as well.

Up late,

please dont consider my piece as a showcase of all features on Synful.
It isnt.

The vibrato can be varied using mod wheel. I just choosed not to do it, because i just played notes and rendered them fastly. Lot of settings can be changed. To me sounded good and I leaved it as it is.
If you want to judge it, download, read the pdf booklet and try yourself to make your opinion.

Luca

FredProgGH

01-09-2005, 06:52 PM

The functionality of the vibrato is unpredictable, though. Whenever you use the wheel there is still a delay. That means the wheel acts more like an on-off switch for a delayed vibrato than a typical expression tool.

Synful has done some great things for a young release. If they get together with users and implement a few thoughtful updates it will really be an excellent tool.

Up Late

01-09-2005, 07:13 PM

Up late,

please dont consider my piece as a showcase of all features on Synful.
It isnt.

Luca

Thanks Luca -- understood; it's just that every demo I've heard so far exhibits similar vibratos. I'd download it myself if I had a PC, but will see them at NAMM in any case and hear it there.

beyarecords

01-11-2005, 03:09 AM

Listen you guys, this Synful thing is incredible. Just heard about it today and was left stunned. Ok, for some of you hardened classical guys, the vibrato is not quite vibratoish enough! But for me as one who comes from Urban side of music (hiphop.......) and loves classical music, it sounds incredible to me....

My only problem is than it is not yet available for the Mac. Now that is absolutely Synful..

command_shift

01-11-2005, 04:28 AM

Thanks Luca -- understood; it's just that every demo I've heard so far exhibits similar vibratos. I'd download it myself if I had a PC, but will see them at NAMM in any case and hear it there.

I tend to agree with you Up Late. Vibrato's a very hard thing to get right. I know Synful is not perfect (yet) because I noticed the vibrato sounding too 'samey' on the violin demos here (which are really great btw).

However, sampled solo strings are worse imo. They almost always sound fake to me (it's about phrasing for me and samples just don't cut it without hours of tweaks).

I'm going to get a spare pc to try out Synful too. My early comments based on the demos so far would be to suggest more user control of vibrato, in particular. Specifically rate, depth, shape an maybe harmonic overtones if the Synful engine has that power. This is possible e.g. on the VL1 - Yamaha give the user a lot of vibrato options which really help programming alive and lifelike sounds. It would be nice to be able to be a real-time musician with this tool! :D

Up Late

01-11-2005, 11:57 AM

I tend to agree with you Up Late. On the VL1 - Yamaha give the user a lot of vibrato options which really help programming alive and lifelike sounds. It would be nice to be able to be a real-time musician with this tool! :D

Yes -- I had a VL1 and its vibrato capabilities were VERY realistic. If those properties could be applied to Synful, well then you'd have it.

BTW, I posted about Synful's vibrato to bring some attention to the issue, not to slam the product. Synful is incredible, even with its mechanical vibrato, and I can't wait until it's available for the Macintosh.