Halion 3 -- Better Copy Protection than Kontakt?

[Martin Hines]

First, some library developers "jumped" from GigaStudio to Kontakt, largely due to the included player capability, cross PC/Mac compatibility, and copy protection.

I now see that some other sample library developers have recently come out with "virtual instruments" using the Halion 3 player. Examples are:

- Scarbee Vintage Keyboard Collection Virtual Instrument
http://www.scarbee.com/

- Project SAM True Strike Virtual Instrument
http://www.projectsam.com/

I was curious as to why:
- better copy protection? Do Halion player libraries use a USB "dongle"?
- better licensing deal?
- better functionality than Kontakt?
- sounds better?

[midphase]

My basic guess would have to be better licensing deals. Now that NI has established itself as a solid candidate for the integrated sample player market, people like Steinberg are scrambling to gain some momentum.

They are probably offering screaming deals to developers to get them on board, which NI has no reason to offer since they have a solid client base.

It's quite possible that copy protection is a factor, but I find NI products to have pretty solid copy protection as well.

[Simone]

Hi,

Believe me that Steinberg licence pricing is not a "screaming deal"... it just a different deal from NI's one... with a different product and a different company: after all this is what competition is all about... and in the end the users should be winning, right?
If you just think about the fact that Scarbee's new VI ships with a Steinberg USB key... this key costs quite much... of course we could have decided to license only the Player with the Code to authorize the key but what if a user buys it and then he discovers that he needs the key and the key is not available SOON anywhere? The user would be really pissed...

As for multi license users (more than one computer at the same time):
Steinberg key already allows much easier handling of many computers not at the same time since all you have to do is install the softwares and just move the key from one computer to another or even move authorizations from a key to another, the Syncrosoft key management software allows this and for free, no need to pay any fee like for example to tranfer iLok authorizations from a user to another; NI license officially allows you to install software on 2 computers but not to use it at the same time, read the small print.

Steinberg deal MAY (and I underline, MAY) allow us a flexible scheme, but this is just a speculation from me, since Thomas is the one who reads and signs contracts... stay assured that Thomas is very sensible to user satisfaction and he will try to make the best he can: Scarbee's VKFX VST effect for example can be run on up to three computers at the same time.

Copy protection should be better, I say should since no CC scheme is uncrackable... NI CC scheme has proved to be almost unuseful since the net is flooded with serial number generators and relative challenge/response generators... I monitor pirate sites whenever I can to check for our products there and NI stuff is very present there...
The real copy protection in NI products is that if you own a pirated copy it is not as easy to access to the frequent updates of every single Kompakt/Intakt engine... and this is the time when usually I start laughing at my so-called-'friends' who easily get access to many more products than me (even though I have plenty of them...)

We, at Scarbee, surely love a lot HALion. Personally I would have never chose a platform for licensing price reasons... I just like the way HALion is... and Thomas thinks the same, he is very excited about coworking with Steinberg on this first Scarbee VI plugin release.

Sound: there are plenty of 'indipendent' infos on the net about soft samplers' sound (especially when dealing with real time transposition and resampling, I think there is thread about it somewhare on NS). This matters quite much but I IMO both Kontakt and HALion sound very good with Scarbee Libs since they are multi sampled and chromatically sampled and do not use transposition...

Best regards,

Simone Coen

[Simone]

Ah... BTW... I am very excited that Scarbee is sharing the first release with HALion player with such a great developer like Project SAM!

;)

Best,

Simone

[Brian2112]

The Scarbee J Slap n Fingered Bass is one of my most used and favorite libraries. I hope that Scarbee will continue to support other formats as well. I threw Cubase in the trash quite a while ago and keep my computer free of dongles. It has been my experience that dongle + Steinberg = disaster.


I monitor pirate sites whenever I can to check for our products there and NI stuff is very present there...

Then you also know that Steinberg stuff is the easiest to find. It has always been #1 on the pirate "hit list". Ironically, the better the copy protection scheme, the more likely it is to be cracked. The reason is in the mindset of a pirate. They like a challenge. Someone who cracked Sonar would be flogged naked through the streets in the “community” of pirates. To them, cracking Steinberg products is a real achievement. Still, please don’t see this as a criticism, I just want to make sure that the excellent Scarbee libraries are not “married” to one platform.


...2112:o

[Maarten Spruijt]

Thanks Simone! We're thrilled to enter this new path with great colleagues like yourself and Thomas!

Best,

Maarten
Project SAM
www.projectsam.com

[Simone]

The Scarbee J Slap n Fingered Bass is one of my most used and favorite libraries. I hope that Scarbee will continue to support other formats as well. I threw Cubase in the trash quite a while ago and keep my computer free of dongles. It has been my experience that dongle + Steinberg = disaster.


Then you also know that Steinberg stuff is the easiest to find. It has always been #1 on the pirate "hit list". Ironically, the better the copy protection scheme, the more likely it is to be cracked. The reason is in the mindset of a pirate. They like a challenge. Someone who cracked Sonar would be flogged naked through the streets in the “community” of pirates. To them, cracking Steinberg products is a real achievement. Still, please don’t see this as a criticism, I just want to make sure that the excellent Scarbee libraries are not “married” to one platform.


...2112:o

Then you should know that lately Cubase cracks are reported to not be working properly...
Also: I have dongles installed on at least 4 systems now and the only one causing me temporary ehadaches was an iLok on an old G4 DP... it ended up being an USB Hub problem...

Never had any single dongle prob: here I have 3 steinberg keys, 3 emagic/apple keys, 1 iLok, 1 Yellow Tools and I mix and match them to need...

Just my experience...

Best regards,

Simone Coen

[robin123]

Is it possible to have 10 dongels installed if you have 10 different applications protected with this stupid thing!!!

[Martin Hines]

Is it possible to have 10 dongels installed if you have 10 different applications protected with this stupid thing!!!

No, you would authorize all 10 applications with a single key. As Simone mentioned earlier, there is "Synchrosoft key management software" that would allow you to do this.

If you already have Cubase 3, then you could use that USB key.

http://www.steinberg.net/Steinberg/Company/NewsItem.asp?id=3858&Langue_ID=7

At least with Scarbee, it appears they will include a key in the box.

[peter269]

First, some library developers "jumped" from GigaStudio to Kontakt, largely due to the included player capability, cross PC/Mac compatibility, and copy protection.

I now see that some other sample library developers have recently come out with "virtual instruments" using the Halion 3 player. Examples are:

- Scarbee Vintage Keyboard Collection Virtual Instrument
http://www.scarbee.com/

- Project SAM True Strike Virtual Instrument
http://www.projectsam.com/

I was curious as to why:
- better copy protection? Do Halion player libraries use a USB "dongle"?
- better licensing deal?
- better functionality than Kontakt?
- sounds better?

I wouldn't say we "jumped". The practical sales reality is that you develop for what customers are using. It would be great to keep KH in just one format. But, the experience of other developers taught us early that you have to be in at least GigaStudio and Kontakt, as only with this combination can you address the total market including Macintosh owners.

If we see Yamaha/Steinberg (http://www..com/musicbiz/) package HALion 3 with Cubase SX and SL, that would be compelling enough to add a third sampler, which is also cross platform.

Another consideration is 64-bit Windows. Kontakt and HALion appear ready for it. If this is the case, then as developers, we have to determine if the PC customer is able to have the experience that Mac users are having with Logic and EXS. If yes, then this would be a significant tipping point that would mandate change.

At day's end, it's all about being customer driven.