Have tascam given up on gigastudio or are there any developments?

[paynterr]

Nothing has happened for months and months... I wondered whether Tascam had thrown in the towel, or whether there is a major upgrade of GS coming that I don\'t know about. They seem to have rested on their laurels slightly.
Does anyone know what is going on at Tascam?

[Alexcremers]

Huh, what? ... graemlins/tounge_images/icons/smile.gif


------------
Alex Cremers

[Bill]

> is a major upgrade of GS coming

You mean other than v3.0?

[paynterr]

No - I mean v3.0? Or whatever the next major version release is?

[Runyon]

Not sure if Tascam has, but a lot of users have.

Seems to me that the future rests in releasing libraries in self-contained playback engines as Spectrasonics, and now Quantum Leap are doing.

Or, integrated sample playback in a sequencer as ESX or Halion.

Only speaking for myself, but I can\'t imagine spending any more time or money dealing with a stand-alone soft sampler. I guess there is a future for live playing by lugging a laptop to a gig, but even in this scenario, I\'m seeing people bringing Logic Audio on a laptop and running ESX as a live sample player.

If I were a sample developer, I would focus on a dedicated playback engine, and damn the multiple platform headache.

Bottom line about a new Gigastudio....who really cares?

[Simon Ravn]

Originally posted by Runyon:


Bottom line about a new Gigastudio....who really cares? <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Oh, I certainly do. I really wish GS3 would be just around the corner and that it would include a copy protection scheme that would make it comfortable for e.g. Nick and Doug to port EWQLSO to GigaStudio. And that V3 would be able to use at least 2GB RAM. Nothing beats GigaStudio\'s streaming and efficiency - and it has 64 MIDI ch\'s - let\'s hope for 128 in V3. Much more convinient than 8-16 MIDI ch\'s VST samplers.

[Runyon]

Originally posted by Simon Ravn:
QUOTE] ...and that it would include a copy protection scheme that would make it comfortable for e.g. Nick and Doug to port EWQLSO to GigaStudio. [/QB]<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Was the decision to use their own playback engine based soley on copy protection issues? I didn\'t realize that.

I thought there was more to it. I find integration to be far more useful, but maybe that\'s just me.

Plus, the constant requests for a version in this format and that format...things not translating perfectly, et al....

I can imagine it is hard to turn a profit under those conditions. Or more to the point.... Who wants their business to be dependant on some other business? Entrepeneurially, that is dangerous territory.

Seems to me that self contained playback engines would be the smartest way to go. No question that\'s what I\'d do if I were a sample developer.

I\'m really surprised that VSL didn\'t go that route.

[paynterr]

Yes - I\'m amazed how Tascam let their lead in the market slip. I can only comment that perhaps this was the goal of Tascam all along, to buy up the soft competition and then run it into the ground... exactly what they said they would not be doing incidentally.
I guess there are two users of samplers... those who want to create their own wierd and wonderful sounds and those of us who really don\'t care about being able to program the instruments ourselves. For the latter, I agree with you on your point of stand-alone. That is exactly what I would want. An abstraction on the instrument and the sample engine... the ideal for each sample library is that it would appear as a virtual instrument with its own instrument abstractions, rather than low-level sampler controls.
That is the way it will go.
Interestingly, with the advent of technbologies like www.fxteleport.com, (\"http://www.fxteleport.com,\") sample library makers are afforded new and interesting opportunities. e.g. making sounds available in runtime over the internet, with farms at their end of the bargain. Long way off, but intresting idea that the sample library owner could buy a farm of machines and then distribute the sounds on a per-month/usage basis, rather than distribute on disk.
(but, this is a long way off images/icons/smile.gif

[Alexcremers]

What really gives it away though, is the total absence of advertisements from Tascam above this page.


Eagerly awaiting Tascam\'s new release,


------------
Alex Cremers

[Munsie]

Tascam thrown in the towel? Not at all. They are currently selling/advertising the existing version. I\'ve seen full page ads in several magazines. These are not cheap. Personally I don\'t think the magical \"3.0\" is going to be a huge leap by any means. I think you\'ll find a more mature engine with Vst and/or Direct X effects compatibility. But that would be good enough for me. images/icons/smile.gif

[sporter]

I think if Giga will just keep up with current technology (vst, Direct X, 24 bit...), they have a large enough following, and such a huge library base that they\'ll be able to remain on top. I certainly hope so...

[enb141]

In my opinion the only things that GigaStudio need to beat the competition are:

- To Add sostenuto

- 24/96 audio samples

- VSTi and DXi

[Bill]

> there\'s been no actual confirmation from Tascam that there will be a GigaStudio 3.0

I remember seeing quite a few reference to 3.0 from Tascam on their site...

[JonFairhurst]

But no official announcements.

3.0 may just be a working title. Who knows what whiz-bang title their marketing department will come up with? GigaStudeler anyone? ;-)

[dougrogers]

Originally posted by Runyon:
</font><blockquote><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><hr /><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Originally posted by Simon Ravn:
QUOTE] ...and that it would include a copy protection scheme that would make it comfortable for e.g. Nick and Doug to port EWQLSO to GigaStudio. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Was the decision to use their own playback engine based soley on copy protection issues? I didn\'t realize that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">No, that wasn\'t the only reason, but it was the last straw!

Giga has technical limitations from a creative point of view. Apart from the lack of 24bit support (which opens up the soundstage) they wouldn\'t support our request for a better way of handling release samples. NI did fortunately, and now we have an intelligent system where the amplitude of the release sample is matched to the amplitude of the main sample, regardless of when the key is released. This results in a seamless transition that is very natural. This is just one example that frustrated us as sound designers. There are many other creative programming problems also that I hope they fix in the mysterious 3.0.

Take care,

Doug Rogers
-------------------
EASTWEST
www..com (\"http://www..com\")

[Kenn159]

Dougs response is another glaring example that gigastudio is being technologically left behind .
As a enduser that spent $699 for gigsampler and $149 to upgrade to giga studio, I am concerned about my investment[not to mention gigasample libraries].
I know that Gigastudio is a great program but come on , I bought my Echo 24 bit Darla sound card almost 4 years ago , and giga STILL doesnt support 24 bit?
And 2.5 came out fall/winter 2001 , were pushing 2 years between 2.5 and 3.0 and no word what so ever.
OK I didn\'t want this to turn into a bitch session and Tascam I understand if you dont want to tell us what features will be in the next upgrade , but ATLEAST tell us a tenative release date.

[Hudson]

You\'d prolly have better luck sending that last post directly to Tascam...in fact, anyone who feels that way should do the same. They need a serious wakeup call!
-Hudson

[Kenn159]

I just copied this whole thread to the Tasam forum, hoping to get a response from Tascam.
So now we all can follow this thread at 2 different forums.

[SOD213]

From the Yahoo group:

-----Original Message-----
From: Mitch Brink
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 7:22 AM
To: NemesysMusic@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [NemesysMusic] Is Giga dead?


I have to ask.
The Tascam forums are dried up. There\'s no more Tascam rep presence anywhere.
<snip>

Is this product line dead or not? Did Tascam buy Giga just to bury it?
Is Kontakt going to replace Giga?

I saw a post at Northernsounds by Doug Rogers at East West that really sounds as if they\'ve completely given up on Giga as a viable sample platform.

-------------------------------------------------

From: \"Joe Bibbo\"
Subject: RE: Is Giga dead?

Mitch,

Geez, I hope not. I keep telling myself there
is purpose behind all the hours we are putting into the technology images/icons/wink.gif

Actually, I do not spend much time on the forums
because so many have of them are just noise.
So as far as who is talking about Giga on the internet, I really couldn\'t say. I like this one, mainly because I can access it via my mail tool.

Anyways, I know a number of developers here in Austin, as well as in California are marching to the Giga3 drums, and retirement is the furthest thing from our minds.

As far as Doug and EastWest, I wouldn\'t put too much weight behind what is said on NS. Basically, the sound developers will support the platforms with the largest markets - the trend hasn\'t changed since the first sample was commercially available. You run a business,
you try to make money - simple as that. If the platform is successful, then the sounds will follow. So our job as platform developers is to create the most desirable platform for both the developers and the end user. NS has a long history of special interest groups.

There is no doubt over the last few years Giga has seen more and more competition. Any good idea is bound to be copied, and as computer technology gets faster/bigger and cheaper the
programming gets easier. One of the more satisfying results of TASCAM acquisition, is their commitment to the original philosophy- take the time, create innovative solution, don\'t just copy. Of course, this strategy takes
time and time is money. So it not always easy to swallow, but I truly believe that this forward thinking helps the industry as a whole.

Anyways, enough said. I am a developer and this kind of discussion is not my forte. However, every once in awhile I need to say things like this, because I am very appreciative of our situation, and I think it helps for customers to
know that this isn\'t just a faceless company behind some technology.

Regards,
Joe

[Alexcremers]

Boy, I felt all warm reading this. It\'s like getting news from the homefront.


------------
Alex Cremers

[michael88s]

Alex,

I don\'t get a warm and fuzzy feeling here thinking Tascam might be taking their time to get it right, I just don\'t trust the corporate mentality, sorry if I\'m a curmudgeon.

If Tascam feels that their attention to Gigastudio might have a negative impact on their earnings elsewhere, do you think they\'d hesitate to tread water or to squash GS altogether?

I sure don\'t. But I hope I\'m wrong.

michael88s

[Alexcremers]

michael88s,

I guess I was in a \"any news is good news\" mode. No matter how small it is. I will remain optimistic even though it\'s gonna take alot of patience.


------------
Alex Cremers

[michael88s]

Hi Alex,

Perhaps I was playing \'the devil\'s advocate\' a little too strongly there, because I actually don\'t see how developing Giga has any negative impact on Tascam, in fact just the opposite.

Their hard disk and hardware recording divisions should go hand-in-hand with software sampling and playback ala GS.

A more likely guess as to what\'s taking so long probably has to do with the company\'s just having a lot going on in several divisions, and all at the same time.

Regards,
michael88s

[Alexcremers]

Or worse, Michael88s, some legal issues with the old Nemesys gang which could explain their silence. If this is the case then this nowhereland could take years. And then Kontakt is sitting on the throne when King Giga returns as 3.0.

------------
Alex Cremers

[dougrogers]

From: \"Joe Bibbo\"
As far as Doug and EastWest, I wouldn\'t put too much weight behind what is said on NS.<font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hmmmmm...... I\'ve been in this business about 10 years longer than you Joe. During that time I\'ve witnessed the demise of Akai, Emu, Kurzweil, Roland, SampleCell and other Samplers that all had a large user base at one time or another.

Most users are NOT loyal. They will jump ship if they see a more powerful option, as they did when Giga came along.

The largest developers have recently abandoned Giga in favor of their own solution, due to years of silence and broken promises.

Giga 3.0 will have be so much better than your current competitors IMO to reverse this trend.

I hope I\'m wrong for your sake, but this all feels like deja vu!

Take care,

Doug Rogers
--------------------
EASTWEST
www..com (\"http://www..com\")

[Bill]

Forum members no doubt realize that Doug’s presence here on the NS forums is to promote the financial interests of EastWest Sounds, and will keep that in mind when reading his posts.

[dougrogers]

Originally posted by Bill:
Forum members no doubt realize that Doug’s presence here on the NS forums is to promote the financial interests of EastWest Sounds, and will keep that in mind when reading his posts. <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I resent that comment - I try to call it as I see it, regardless of my affiliations. Which part of what I said do you disagree with?

Doug Rogers
------------------
EASTWEST
www..com (\"http://www..com\")

[michael88s]

Like Yogi Berra used to say, \"it\'s deja vu all over again\"....maybe.

IMO, and I\'ll state what seems obvious, I can\'t see how it can be any worse for Tascam than it is right now regarding keeping a solid Gigastudio user base. Saying what\'s coming up or when might let a few cats out of the bag, but saying nothing has and is losing them users, and companies ARE developing and/or finding other solutions.


michael88s

[Houston Haynes]

\"Make your own decisions - and live with them.\" One of my seven rules for better living.

I make music with GigaStudio. The programming interface makes a kind of sense to me (after investing in the GigaMastery CDs). It is possible that I might crossgrade to Halion or Kontact, but right now I\'m busy enough with making music to worry about limitations I haven\'t hit yet.

Call me old fashioned, but there needs to be a real watershed in order to cause wholesale platform abandonment. And while all of the hardware/firmware sampler platforms are waning, there is still plenty of demand out there for AKAI and others to keep producing new models. It\'s like the horse and buggy era giving way to the automobile - there is a transition period and we\'re in it. However - it will be known for the death knells of VLSI processing, not for migration from one native platform to another.

Oh, and as far as the alluded to conflict of interest is concerned - it\'s definitely there, from my perspective. The more people stand pat with Giga (quite a few I\'d imagine) the fewer of the 24 bit new-fangled libraries are sold. It would seem to me that EastWest has a vested interest in getting folks to go toware their new libraries which cannot be exploited in Giga 2.5 My guess is that tune will change within 90 days of Giga\'s 3.0 release. Just a guess, mind you...

[dougrogers]

Originally posted by Houston Haynes:
Oh, and as far as the alluded to conflict of interest is concerned - it\'s definitely there, from my perspective. The more people stand pat with Giga (quite a few I\'d imagine) the fewer of the 24 bit new-fangled libraries are sold. It would seem to me that EastWest has a vested interest in getting folks to go toware their new libraries which cannot be exploited in Giga 2.5 My guess is that tune will change within 90 days of Giga\'s 3.0 release. Just a guess, mind you... <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Did you know Houston, that EW has the largest collection of Giga libraries!!

Take care,

Doug Rogers
-------------------
EASTWEST
www..com (\"http://www..com\")

[KingIdiot]

hehee

I too am quite frustrated with the lack of hard facts out there about giga 3. I do know more than the average soul but not enough to make me happy. This doesn\'t mean I think Giga\'s not gonna be cool. In fact because of it I have a feeling they\'ve got some really interesting achievments up their sleeve.

I do however think that some of these achievements will go largly un-noticed as they may end up being more \"under the hood\". Quite a few users themselves have shown that they are fairly unwilling to learn what makes giga instruments tick, so why would they be blown away with advances in what makes giga itself tick.

I for one think that all this \"jump ship\" stuff is ignorant. Use what works. These standalone apps from EW dont force you to buy another sampler. They allow you to use it on its own, and giga on its own. they are different tools, and you have to accept that. Your sequencer is a different tool. Your soft synths are a different tool, your editors are different tools.

get over it.

Giga 3 will ahve many benefits over its competetors I\'m sure. Their competitors will ahve many benefits over Giga.

Its like VSL/QLSO

or GOS/SI

or Coke/Pepsi

or Nintendo/Sega in the mid-late 80\'s to early 90\'s and Nintendo/Sony in the late 90\'s and Micro/Sony in the 00\'s

Use what will get your music done and get over it.

From early reports giga 3\'s going to have some hardcore advancements that have my ears perked up. Some of the other stuff I know thats going in, is extremely cool.

I for one know I\'ll be programming SINGLE INSTRUMENTS that will use both Giga and Kontakt via some creative midi routing so that I can get the best of both worlds. images/icons/smile.gif I have to have some REAL down time before I get to that tho. Away from programming other stuff, and some time away from teh puters in general.

[Munsie]

I wonder what percentage in gross sales GS is compared to their other products. I would guess it\'s extremely low. It\'s probably very low on their priority list. I\'ve seen quite a few new hardware products from them lately being advertised. I do think if GS was being handled by a software only company you would see much more pre-advertising for 3.0 going on. But if you were the owner of Tascam, wouldn\'t you agree that pushing their hardware developments is the key to immediate income and the software development is key to future growth? Obviously they are taking their time learning this software. Remember, it was only a small group of people working on the GS technology. If they were all of a sudden dead, GS would more than likely be gone with them. I would think Tascam is documenting everything about GS, teaching other techs about the technology so they can continue to develop it. This takes time. Plus no one really knows how long the previous coders are going to stay on board? I wonder if in the back of their mind they (previous coders) can\'t wait to go at it on their own again and develop the next REAL version of GS? images/icons/smile.gif I think Tascam is willing to let the current sample market dry up for them because they are preparing for the future. And they are more than likely preparing some hardware/software hybrid as well. This only makes logical sense for Tascam. I wouldn\'t be surprised if we have seen the last product with the name \"Giga\" in it. However it wouldn\'t shock me either if the new \"Tascam Audio Studio\" was announced sometime soon. images/icons/smile.gif

[Ed]

Originally posted by enb141:
In my opinion the only things that GigaStudio need to beat the competition are:

- To Add sostenuto

- 24/96 audio samples

- VSTi and DXi <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">... and offline bouncing.

Ed

[composer22]

add:

Better memory management
Remote server administration

images/icons/wink.gif

[JonFairhurst]

Not 24/96, 24/192. That\'s compatible with DVD-Audio. Sure it\'s more than most of our soundcards can do. Today. Gotta stay a step ahead of the competition.