New piece - can your ears tell the difference between these two mixes?

[MDesigner]

...and if you can tell the diff, which one sounds better to you?

I'll give you a hint so the listening process isn't so agonizing: it's in the instrument placement, and it's very subtle.

http://www.samhulick.com/bgate.mp3
http://www.samhulick.com/bgate2.mp3

Edit: mp3s above removed..thanks for the feedback. Latest mix here:
http://www.samhulick.com/Riverside.mp3

[Stephanie Pray]

I like the 2nd one better. Am I right? :p

[FredProgGH]

Hmmm, panning of the winds, right?? I think I like the second one with everything not centered. I *think* :D

Nice cue, BTW!!

[MDesigner]

Nice, guys.. I can count on you every time.

Yes.. I like the 2nd one too. I was experimenting a bit with it. The 1st one sounds like it's empty in the center. It's lacking the proper fullness it deserves when the strings come in.

Wow, you'd be surprised how tiny an adjustment it was between #1 and #2. We're talking something below millimeters here.

Now I'm just waiting for the film score buffs to come in with a raised finger, saying "Um, that theme is by (blank) from the movie (blank)." Damn!!

[Stephanie Pray]

It sounds vaguely familiar... ;)

[gugliel]

To me, there is a little lost -- or rather added -- in the second. It is as if there are slight phase problems when combining the reverb of a note with its duplicate at the next point in the melody. The E of the first melody note (sounds like an organ pipe with a 4' plus 2' doubling, or maybe a french horn with 2 octave flute doubling and an oboe or something in the middle octave) is duplicated in the third note and sixth note -- and the echo of the first blurs or phases with the third, and the third with the sixth, a tiny bit. This is a tiny difference, and maybe the extra ambiance helps the overall sound despite the new problem.

Listening to this also cleared up a little about my own projects, where the better I make something sound with a reverb the worse it begins to sound in other ways. Thank you!

[carlmsmith]

We're wise to you, Sam! You got us all to listen to your piece at least ten times! Rats! Now I can't get it out of my head!

Anyway, very nice indeed. Did the bassoonist move one chair over?

Carl

[MDesigner]

We're wise to you, Sam! You got us all to listen to your piece at least ten times! Rats! Now I can't get it out of my head!

Anyway, very nice indeed. Did the bassoonist move one chair over?

Carl

Muhahaha! At least ten times..perfect! Enough for the subliminal messages to sink in. ;)

Actually I moved all the chairs closer together for the 2nd clip. Disregard the stray oboe line at the end, the oboist had a few too many drinks before the recording session and felt the need to improvise. Those responsible have been sacked.

[MDesigner]

Final mix (but not the final piece) - http://www.samhulick.com/Riverside.mp3

Same mixing as clip #1. Thickened up the orchestration a bit at 0:32 and changed the flute+bassoon melody.

[gugliel]

Third version sounds best to me. You might consider -- just an idea, not a criticism -- once the harp enters arpeggio, adding a little movement either higher, bisbigliando, or in the medium register, single line chord notes -- the river seems beset by tidal flows otherwise, where all motion stops along with a melody long note.

The rocking flute, strings, harp at 0:13 is beautiful.