Sax imitation

[mscmixer]

Hmm, it appears that alot of people use a clarinet in place of a sax when writing jazz pieces and such. I've listened to saxes before(though I'm not very familiar with them) and it seems to me that an English Horn would be a better substitute. I guess this really isn't that important of a topic, but I'm just curious what other people use for saxes.

[jesshmusic]

For classical sax, English horn sounds closest to the alto sax. the tenor is meant to sound like a cello. The rest are not common in the classical repetoire.

As for jazz.... best to just wait for the big band package, the jazz sax has a vastly different sound than the classical sax. I have heard many mention using the big band saxes in classical settings, but this won't work. The same vice-versa.

[Styxx]

Hmm, it appears that alot of people use a clarinet in place of a sax when writing jazz pieces and such. I've listened to saxes before(though I'm not very familiar with them) and it seems to me that an English Horn would be a better substitute. I guess this really isn't that important of a topic, but I'm just curious what other people use for saxes.
Yes, and the bassoon works well sometimes. I've used it in rendering a musical score for rehearsals but only if the sax or saxes are particularly important for cues. Otherwise, I've used other GM sounds to fill the gap.

[kitekrazy]

Did you know "Tears of A Clown" by Smokey Robinson uses a bassoon? After listening to that song it never sounded like a bari sax. I looked it up and found they used a bassoon in the recording.

[Richard N.]

Hmm, it appears that alot of people use a clarinet in place of a sax when writing jazz pieces and such... ...it seems to me that an English Horn would be a better substitute. I guess this really isn't that important of a topic, but I'm just curious what other people use for saxes.

I am one of those who has used clarinets - and have tried the suggestion of using English Horn, Bassoons etc.,

The approach I take is that (until I get my grubby mits on the Jazz/Big Band library) I select from the GPO pool of instruments those which legitmately could be expected to be played in a typical pro-band. Hence, my choice to use clarinets.

Excluding the crossover orchestral/big band productions, I know of a few Big Band charts that have included Oboe parts, but I have never actually come across anyone in Big Band field who played them on Oboe (either through ability, availability or choice - I don't know which).

So (in my opinion) whilst using clarinets instead of saxes is not what has been scored, the sound obtained is recognisably that of a Big Band.

My trials of using the double reeds has been interesting (and brought a smile to my face because it conjures up the image in my head of a Middle Ages Court Band playing Charlie Parker charts) and at times suggested a likeness to a sax section, I think I prefer going for the clarinets which are different to what has been written but not unthinkable as opposed to getting a suggestion of the scored sound but being obviously not believable for a Big Band.

Just my thoughts....

[cptexas]

I beleive that I have the best solution for this issue:

Don't use a sax in your peice!!!! :D

Chris

[SteveHanlon]

I have a better solution

contact this internet sax player

Jeffrey Wills jscotwills@earthlink.net

He's freakin' amazing! And he's very reasonable. And he plays bari to soprano. I've had him record me soprano, alto and tenor parts on my tunes (all via the internet)

See Bruce's post about his recent piece that involved a real clarinet player. Real players make all the difference.

Regarding saxes, money better spent on a real player. Forget English horn. English horn is best left for Concierto de Aranjuez.

[cptexas]

I have a better solution.
What do you mean you have a better solution??!!!?!

Mine is cheaper, easier, and.................cheaper!

Oh well, I'll give it a rest. :rolleyes:

Good luck with your sax,
Chris

[SteveHanlon]

But it's less saxy. And if you want more sax, no sax is not the solution.

I get the feeling you're saxist...

[cptexas]

But it's less saxy. And if you want more sax, no sax is not the solution.

I get the feeling you're saxist...
Actually, I'm a little jealous of saxes.
I'm a bassoonist, and in my HS band, I'm almost always in unison with the tenor saxes. They always drown me out, and they all sound better than me, and they all put less effort into it than I do! :mad:
Why can't the stupid arrangers give the bassoon (just singular. I'm the only bassoon worth listening to) a unique part? :confused:

I'll tell you why:
Because saxes are soooooooooo much more popular than bassoons because they're easier to play, sound better with less effort, almost always in tune, and are cheaper. And therefore a band (especially a HS one) will be more likely to have a lot of saxes than a lot of bassoons!
Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!!! :mad:

So that's why I'm saxist. :)

Chris

[KevinKauai]

The French, bless 'em, use a lot of sax in early 20th century pieces -- Darius Milhaud, in particular ("La Création du monde" comes to mind). Contemporaries Ravel and Lalo also indulged in teh new-fangled (at the time) invention.

At one point, I thought we had convinced Gary to include orchestra saxes (at least soprano, alto and tenor) in some GPO update, but now it seems I misunderstood and they will be in the Big Band/Jazz package. I'm not sure if sampling those 3 is different for symphonic purposes than for BB/jazz, but it would sure be nice to have the resource for symphonic saxes.

There's an interesting website called saxspot.com (http://www.saxspot.com/). (Careful, though -- if you type an "e" in place of an "a" there you get any entirely different and annoying "won't go away" type of web site.)

You can get just a taste of the way that Milhaud used the sax on tracks 2 and 5 of the disc 2 "audition" tracks on this Amazon.com page (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000J7P1/qid=1110250480/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/103-7350464-6715043).

Speaking of oddities, has anyone else used or had experience with the Indian instrument called the "esraj". Supposedly it's like a small sitar, but it's bowed. (Or stirred, not shaken.) I ran across it in a discussion of scoring for a lengthy soundtrak in the last few days. So far, I've not found any sample sets. Supposedly quite a unique characteris tone (but then, so is the bagpipe!).

:) KevinKauai

[Jerry W.]

Actually, I'm a little jealous of saxes.
I'm a bassoonist, and in my HS band, I'm almost always in unison with the tenor saxes. They always drown me out, and they all sound better than me, and they all put less effort into it than I do! :mad:
Why can't the stupid arrangers give the bassoon (just singular. I'm the only bassoon worth listening to) a unique part? :confused:

I'll tell you why:
Because saxes are soooooooooo much more popular than bassoons because they're easier to play, sound better with less effort, almost always in tune, and are cheaper. And therefore a band (especially a HS one) will be more likely to have a lot of saxes than a lot of bassoons!
Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!!! :mad:

So that's why I'm saxist. :)
Chris

Sounds like sax envy to me. :) JK

Jerry

[FredProgGH]

Actually, I'm a little jealous of saxes.
I'm a bassoonist, and in my HS band, I'm almost always in unison with the tenor saxes. They always drown me out, and they all sound better than me, and they all put less effort into it than I do! :mad:
Why can't the stupid arrangers give the bassoon (just singular. I'm the only bassoon worth listening to) a unique part? :confused:

Chris
Dude!! Ditch the band, find a baroque ensemble and play Vivaldi! Or Telemann- he wrote great music for bassoon. :)

[SteveHanlon]

Have you tried blowing big wet spitballs thru the body?


Someone's gotta try at least once.

[cptexas]

Have you tried blowing big wet spitballs thru the body?


Someone's gotta try at least once.
THAT, my friend, works!!!
I manage to sound like a sax then.
Or if I have a crappy reed and/or an overly loose embrochure, which is how the other bassoonist sounds. It sounds like there's a bumblebee stuck in his instrument!
And he's a senior!
Been playing for four years!
I'm a freshman!
I've been playing for one and a half years and graduated from that bumblebee sound after three months!!!!
And he thinks he's so much better than me!!!
And my tone is round like the GPO bassoons!!
Grrrrrr!!!!!! :mad:

Off topic.....


Dude!! Ditch the band, find a baroque ensemble and play Vivaldi! Or Telemann- he wrote great music for bassoon. :)
I would, trust me, but I live in the middle of nowhere. NJ is all city except for the northwestern corner, where I live. My HS only has a band, no orchestra, not to mention a BAROQUE one! I'm a member of the county youth orchestra playing cello, and if I were to play in a baroque orchestra, they'd put me on cello anyways 'cause I'm better at it. Maybe I could to to Newark. That's a big city.
Hmmmmm...........
They'd have a baroque orchestra!
Cool!!

Thanks, guys!!!

Chris

[kitekrazy]

Actually, I'm a little jealous of saxes.
I'm a bassoonist, and in my HS band, I'm almost always in unison with the tenor saxes. They always drown me out, and they all sound better than me, and they all put less effort into it than I do! :mad:
Why can't the stupid arrangers give the bassoon (just singular. I'm the only bassoon worth listening to) a unique part? :confused:
Chris

Most band directors in my area would think you came from heaven and the tenor sax players came out of the depths of hell to torment them.

You should look for a recording of Mozart's Basson Concerto. Beethoven also featured bassoon solos in his works.

They only reason the tenor saxes sound better than you is because Sax is an easy instrument to play. In the same respect there are very FEW sax players who really make that instrument sing-very few.

[cptexas]

Most band directors in my area would think you came from heaven and the tenor sax players came out of the depths of hell to torment them.

You should look for a recording of Mozart's Basson Concerto. Beethoven also featured bassoon solos in his works.

They only reason the tenor saxes sound better than you is because Sax is an easy instrument to play. In the same respect there are very FEW sax players who really make that instrument sing-very few.
Yeah, but every time I play Beethoven, I'm playing the cello. And the three tenor saxes we have are very good. They all make their instruments sing. In fact, I think at least two of them will be professionals some day--even if not on sax. One of them has already played piano at Carnagie hall!

Chris

[jesshmusic]

At one point, I thought we had convinced Gary to include orchestra saxes (at least soprano, alto and tenor) in some GPO update, but now it seems I misunderstood and they will be in the Big Band/Jazz package. I'm not sure if sampling those 3 is different for symphonic purposes than for BB/jazz, but it would sure be nice to have the resource for symphonic saxes.


Unfortunately, the Big Band saxes will be unusable in the classic literature or in any orchestra setting other than Pops. The style of play, reed, mouthpiece, tone, articulation are completely different. Our only hope is that GPO advanced has classical saxes. I have seen a lot more obscure instruments so I will be a little surprised if it doesn't. When one is exposed to a true classical sax tone you will be so amazed. Most people don't realize there is a giant sax solo in "Bolero" because the saxophonists uses a classical tone. I have posted often on this because I think the sax is the instrument most likely to be added to modern orchestras. Especially since it has such a uniform tone throughout the section.

But I must repeat...emphatically... the big band saxes are for big band and will not sound right with an orchestra. ;)

[tcohen]

Did you know "Tears of A Clown" by Smokey Robinson uses a bassoon? After listening to that song it never sounded like a bari sax. I looked it up and found they used a bassoon in the recording.


Very interesting, it always sounded like a britone sax to me.

[Journeyman]

See Bruce's post about his recent piece that involved a real clarinet player.
Could someone point me to this? I can't seem to locate it. Thanks!

[SteveHanlon]

http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30100&highlight=clarinet

[Journeyman]

Thanks, Marty.