Can you guys help me make a decision?

[wayne_rowley]

Hi there,

I am looking for an orchestral library. I have been looking at both GPO and EWQLSO for a while, listening to demos etc. I *thought* I was pretty much set on EWQLSO Silver Pro. However I had a chat with a friend last night who is a GPO user and now I am undecided again. I wonder if other GPO users could help me. I also have some questions about GPO Advanced (which perhaps Garry could answer).

Firstly, my requirements are that I want a high quality orchestral library that I can run on a single PC (this precludes the EWQLSO PLatinum, and to a degree the Gold, which really needs two powerful PCs to run the whole library). Having listened to the demos my thoughts are that EWQLSO was very bright sounding, with a lot of presence. It has fanctastic brass and percussion, but on the silver, the strings sound very synthy (compared to the gold). The sound was very hollywood (which I do like and would use for some compositions), but lacked expression. Also, the Silver does not have the articulations I would want - I would need Silver Pro.

GPO sounds to me more darker, expressive and intimate - especially with the wind and strings. I have heard some good brass (demo The Celtic Land) but other brass has not convinced me. As it sounds dark and intimate I am not sure how easy it is to get that big hollywood sound - some of the demos on the website have not convinced me. But it is a self contained orchestral solution which my friend has said is extremely expressive and rich sounding.

The GPO update is supposed to provide more agressive brass. How well does it do it? Are there any demonstrations I could listen to?

Obviously neither are the 'best' orchestral libraries given the price but I am not sure which to go for.

There is also the question of GPO Advanced. Is this a new library that will require more computing power to run, but which is higher quality than GPO (like Gold is to Silver) or is it a library extension providing more instruments and articulations (Silver to Silver Pro)? I would be interested in GPO Advanced as long as it was still a self-contained solution that I can run on one PC comfortably. Or is it going to be a 15GB super library with the same requirements (and price) as EWQLSO Gold.

Many thanks in advance.

Wayne

[Styxx]

I am looking for an orchestral library. Hi Wayne, look no further, GPO!

[SteveHanlon]

Wayne, I'd go with the GPO since you can control the amount of reverb. Nice solo violins and the instruments lay well with ech other. You would be missing the choir that comes with Silver but maybe you can lookinto another choir library.

I have EW GOld and GPO. I'm happy with both but when I use EW GOLD I only use EW GOLD since it is so wet (you can stop the relese triggers from happening, which are the hall sound) but still it feels like an isolated library. Also the oboe plays out of tune and seems irreparable.

For a beginining orch lib. and all around good one, I'd say GPO will be your thing.


But to complicate things, getting Silver instead will not be a loss at all. EW made a very nice library. No doubt about that!

I think when you want less reverb, GPO will be your best bet.

(If others feel I'm out of mind about the hall verb in EW, please correct me. Perhaps I just don't know the deeper tricks.)

[wayne_rowley]

Thanks Marty. I have Symphony of Voices so I am well stocked for choirs. I agree about the release trails, but Silver does not have them (so other reverb can be applied). I also have Kirk Hunter strings, so that could make up for a string shortfall in Silver. It is a difficult choice.

Wayne

[Christopher Duncan]

Hi, Wayne.

I don't have personal experience with the EW stuff, but I'm sure it's good quality. GPO, of course, is also good quality. And of course, you can listen to The Composer Channel (http://www.thecomposerchannel.com/) to get more ideas on how it sounds in various settings. Ultimately, as far as the sonic considerations go, you'll have to let your ears do the talking. You'll obviously find a lot of folks here who are happy with what they hear in GPO.

However, the overall experience of purchasing GPO was much larger than I was expecting. I had just purchased GigaStudio 3, which ships with some Vienna samples, also good stuff. I actually bought GPO as an afterthought. I ran into it, had heard some good things about it, and thought for the price, well, why not.

What I found after the fact was a tremendously helpful and supportive community, much more so than any Internet forums I've encountered (and I've encountered a lot). Also, the level of customer service is notable - with Gary's products, it takes on an extremely personal tone and feels like you're dealing with a friend rather than a large corporation. That's extremely rare in any business these days. I think you'll also find his upgrade polices (like GPO to Advanced when it releases) to be extremely generous.

Consequently, GS3 gets used for other things these days (like Larry Seyer's Acoustic Drums!!! http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif ). When I need an orchestra, I reach for GPO. It's extremely easy to use, sounds great, and I feel like I'm a part of something bigger each time I do thanks to the community here.

Oh, yes, and lest I forget the obligatory disclaimer - since I run the Composer Channel and also offer a listener discount on GPO in our online store, I'm naturally going to have good things to say about it. But they're all true! http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Joseph Burrell]

And for clarification...

GPO Advanced is a seperate library. The retail copy will include all of the regular GPO instruments/articulations, plus many more.

So... If you only buy GPO Advanced, it will include all of the preset GPO, plus the new instruments/articulations. Meaning, you'll only have to buy Advanced; you won't have to buy GPO then GPO Advanced.

If you already have GPO and upgrade to Advanced, you will essentially be installing over GPO with GPO Advanced.

The current price we've heard is for the retail copy of Advanced. So if you're upgrading, I imagine the upgrade price will be quite a bit lower than the $499.00 (is that right Gary?) retail price.

[imagegod]

To be honest, I haven't used any EWQLSO product, so I can't comment on it. I have used GPO, and for my purposes, it's wonderful.

But there's more to this decision making process than the relative merits of the two specific products: When you buy GPO, you're not only buying the product, but to one degree or another you're also investing in the company and of course the people running the company. Over the long term, this makes a difference. Just read through the forum: Mr. G and co. are working on some fantastic products for the near/mid and long term. This is important to me.

Also, look at the products included with GPO...you may not need them, but their existence is evidence of Mr. G's overall vision.

Finally, look through his posts on this (and other) forums: his passionate interest in the consumer and his dedication to the industry as a whole is amazing!

[wayne_rowley]

GPO Advanced sounds like what I hoped it would be - and in the right price range!

Hmmm.

Some more listening to do I think. The community aspect is also one that I need to consider. There is a community for EWQLSO, but the GPO one seems a little more close-knit.

Many thanks,
Wayne

[cptexas]

Wayne,
Before I purchaced GPO, I was just as, if not more, hesitant than you. Actually, I was also torn between Silver and GPO. I did rescearch on the two for over a year before I bought anything. When I listened very intently to ALL the GPO demos and ALL the sliver demos, I went for GPO's warm classical sound. Silver's demos are more hollywoodie, but I write neo-classical (I think that's what it's called) and I highly dislike (I don't mean to offend anybody at all, this is just my personal preference) the hollywood sound.
So I went for GPO. I think with some EQing you can get GPO more hollywoodie, and from what I learned from my year of research, GPO has more clever controls. It seems Silver is more of the type of library (correct me if I'm wrong) with lots and lots of samples, and you just sorta pick and choose the ones you want. GPO is more like take a sample and play with it to make it sound more like another.

I've never used Silver, so if I'm completely wrong about it, feel free to shut me up! :D

Chris

[JackB]

I have GPO and EW Silver. If I had to choose one, my choice would be GPO.

EW seems to be intended to work with itself, not with other libraries, and I've read the Silver is intended to be a "starter" set for people who hopelfully will move up to Gold and Platinum.

Even with just the one mic position, silver has ambience, and GPO is dry. It seems it is intended that one will add his or her own reverb to GPO, since a reverb plug-in is included in the package.

To my thinking, GPO has a much wider variety of instrument sounds, with several solo violins, violas, etc. There is also an excellent keyswitched harpsichord, pianos, etc.

If you have choir and strings already, GPO will add a lot of character and choices. GPO will also play well alone. It does not have sections--the sections must be built. However, there are _excellent_ tutorials on this and many other aspects of using GPO.

In another thread Gary mentioned that Sam's brass works very well with GPO. Since you already have strings and choir, perhaps some of Sam's brass would be good to look at for the bigger section brass sounds.

My take is that GPO is a complete orchestra, with lots and lots of variety, that works well with other libraries. I expect GPO advanced will be a thrilling extension to this metaphor. Plus, since day one, the resources of support available for GPO have been amazing.

Silver seems an introductory orchestra for people who will work within in the EW family and move up to fuller versions. Excellent products, but different.

[Haydn]

I would recommend GPO over Silver as your first library as it gives you a more solid foundation especially in the string section. You get all the articulations in all string sections including separate 1st and 2nd violin sections.

Silver is missing many instruments that are found in GPO such as celeste, solo viola, solo double bass, plus many other instruments.

GPO has a much better legato mode than the one in Silver which has work arounds as legato as programmed in GPO is not available in the Silver Kompakt player.

GPO is much easier to use out of the box because of the advanced programming.

[John Hawksley]

Hi Wayne,

I don't know if you're still reading this thread (hope so) but I just finished re-touching the brass fest which is the Star Wars main title. I was reading through the threads on here and you wanted to hear the aggressive brass patches. The template I use for GPO brass is to take the solo patch, back it up with three ensemble players, then use the F/FF overlays and aggressive overlay as necessary.

You can as a rule do a lot with cut and paste but you must generally re-enter modulation data for FF and AG overlays (they tend get very loud if you use the modulation data for, say, the an ensemble player). I use them rather more conservatively than regular expression since they give a lot of brass 'drive'.

I used the tuba, french horn, trumpet and trombone aggressive patches for the Main Title. (disclaimer - the percussion is not GPO on this track, everything else is though).

Hope it sways you to the GPO :-)

Star Wars Main Title - GPO Aggressive Mix.mp3 (http://www.hawksley.net/mp3/Williams%2C%20Transcr.%20%26%20Arr.%20John%20Hawks ley%20-%20Star%20Wars%20Main%20Title%20%28GPO%20Aggressiv e%20Mix%29.mp3)

-John

[dnortana]

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned one of GPO's strongest features - Ease of Use, coupled with expressiveness.

With any other sample library one has to load and manage a variety of articulations. It's time consuming and disturbs the creative flow. GPO is the only library with such good sound without the endless articulation hassle.

The control choices that Tom/Gary made were absolutely brilliant. Velocity for attack, modwheel for volume, and so forth. I'll take the resulting 'easy expressiveness' over a monster library 99% of the time. EWQLSO Gold, for example, sits unused on my hard drive.

Trond

[Jerry W.]

It does not have sections--the sections must be built. However, there are _excellent_ tutorials on this and many other aspects of using GPO.
.

I hate to correct you, JackB, but GPO DOES come with sections, at least with the strings. Not only do you get all the cool solo strings, but you also have samples of each string section.

But Wayne,
If you have the CPU power and RAM for it, doing the ensemble building can really produce a very realistic section sound since even in a REAL string section, it is a number of solosists playing the same music but each with his or her own phrasing, attack, etc etc. GPO is the only library that has this!!! In and of itself is the tie-breaker for me! It is just so versatile!

And this ensemble building can be applied to the rest of the orchestra as well, since there are a variety of solo instruments, each with its own sample, so no phasing will occur when playing unison with other solo instruments.

Plus - GPO seems to be the library that works the easiest with notation software. Finale 2005 even has a GPO optimization built into its Human Playback Feature. Etc. Not sure if you use notation software much - but Overture Se comes with it and it is a rockin' program as well!
:)

Jerry Wickham

[JackB]

I hate to correct you, JackB, but GPO DOES come with sections, at least with the strings. Not only do you get all the cool solo strings, but you also have samples of each string section.
Jerry Wickham

Yes, of course. I guess I meant the focus of GPO is on individual instruments and section building. And primarily I was referring to brass, woodwinds, etc., since the original poster had string sections.

The harp is great in GPO, etc. Many, many different intruments and sounds. A complete package. A complete orchestra.

[Michael_uk]

Thanks Marty. I have Symphony of Voices so I am well stocked for choirs. Wayne
Hello Wayne,

My ears opened on your 'Symphony of Voices'. (A strange physical phenomenon on my part since I'm reading the conversation and not listening to it but you know what I mean) :rolleyes:

As GPO does not yet have a choir I've been searching for something to fit in until Gary releases his choir library. Is 'Symphony for Voices' a good library and if so are there any 'weaknesses'. Is anyone here using 'Symphony for Voices' with GPO and if so do they integrate well or do we have to climb through hoops and jump hurdles?

Thanks.

[wayne_rowley]

Hello Wayne,


As GPO does not yet have a choir I've been searching for something to fit in until Gary releases his choir library. Is 'Symphony for Voices' a good library and if so are there any 'weaknesses'. Is anyone here using 'Symphony for Voices' with GPO and if so do they integrate well or do we have to climb through hoops and jump hurdles?

Thanks.

Hi Micheal,

Symphony of voices is very good! I have the Kurzweil edition which I use on my K2600. The packages has the following samples:

Male and Female choirs (the London Chorale). These are the stock choirs and they are very good. You get a variety of different vowel sounds, along with some phrases. The only weakness is that there are no vibrato samples.

Male and female solo artists. Notes and phrases. These are really good!

Boys choir, with solo boys. These are fantastic and very playable.

Gregorian chants.

Pop stack vocals - with Enya-esque multi-layered vocal samples.

I really like the package, and it would be 'complete' apart from the lack of vibrato samples with the choirs.

I would find the choirs in Silver useful as they are vibrato and would augment SOV nicely I think.

I am still undecided on the libs, but leaning towards EWQLSO Silver Pro. I agree with everything people have said about the GPO community and I think I would miss that, but I think that the way EWQLSO has been recorded gives it a very cohesive orchestral feel, which I have not heard from GPO yet (or rather only once - in the demo 'The Celtic Land' but I am not sure how 'pure' a GPO recording it is as there is no additional info) - even with ensamble building.

The Silver brass is also breathtaking (though I have downloaded the Star Wars fanfair and will give it a good listen this evening :-)).

The weakness of Silver is the strings and woodwind, and I think I can 'patch' that with Kirk Hunter strings and the Kurz. I would have to buy another library to 'patch' the GPO brass.

I would still like more info on what is in Advanced. If it has the 'holywood' brass sound I would go for GPO tomorrow (with the order for Advanced upgrade when it comes out).

Many thanks,
Wayne

[aspenleaf]

Hi Wayne,

I recently bought GPO and I'm working on a short piece that explores the new aggressive brass instruments. If you can overlook a sloppy mix and other rough edges, have a listen to this file:

http://dandamicomusic2.homestead.com/DAmico_GPO_Test.mp3

I think the updated brass is much better than the original patches.

[JackB]

I just went through the instruments and played many of them in both EW Silver and GPO.

The first thing that stands out is the completeness of GPO compared to EW Silver.

GPO does include string sections. It also has many solo instruments with different characters. Many of the instruments have many keyswitches. There are many convenient setups and instrument variations (such as piano and harp and harpsichord).

I bought EW Silver primarily because of the choir. However, this is _very_ limited and of questionable use, as far as I'm concerned. I tried using it once in a small section and finally ended up using bells for this part.

It is also worth noting that in most of the threads I've read comparing GPO and EW, the comparison is made between EW Gold and GOP. Generally, EW Silver is considered not nearly on a par with GPO.

If the music to be created is primarily blaring horn fanfares, followed by booming tubas to accompany entering elephants, punctuated by trilling E-flat cornets to accompany the princess batting her big, big eyes, something other than GOP might be the best first step. But for anything else, I recommend GOP and go from there. GPO is so relatively inexpensive, that one could get a part-time job at a burger place for the time spent trying to make a decision, and the orchestra is paid for. Then the original money for the investment can be spent on EW Silver or something to complement GPO.

[Stephanie Pray]

I have both GPO and Silver (not pro). In my opinion, GPO is far superior to Silver. I especially love GPO's solo instruments - they're perfect (in my opinion). They sing. I know that I haven't said much, but I hope that it helps. :)