Expressive cello sample?

[MDesigner]

I'm thinking it boils down to Kirk Hunter vs. VSL Solo Strings. I'm looking for a really nice cello sample. The attractive thing about VSL Solo Strings is, of course, the performance legato tool. But what I like about KH is, you can buy the solo cello by itself, which is a nice option.

I listened to demos for both. The KH cello demos sound... weird. I can't put my finger on it. The VSL cello seems to be crisper and have better "presence."

Opinions on this?

[greatzed]

VSL rules all. That's all I have to say.

[Scott Cairns]

One of my fav parts of the EWQLSO lib are the Cello's and Solo Cello, sampled in four octaves. Some of the patches are expressive and lyrical and have a really natural swell.

Of course, you need to buy the whole lib to get them!

[Not Dudley Simpson]

Sam,

Check the demos for X Sample vol 7. That's the disc with the vibrato cello, spinet etc. Sonically, it's the nicest solo cello I've heard. You can feel the musician behind it. Other cellos, some of which are undoubtably more elaborate and comprehensive, seem a little brittle by comparison.

There are non-vib/pizz/stac solo cellos on other Xsample discs. Pity they broke them up that way.

Luck
Heath

[josejherring]

I like the cello in EWQLSO like Scott does.

Heath, what's X sample? Is that a library or the name of a patch in a library?

Thanks,

Jose

[Not Dudley Simpson]

Here you go, Jose

http://www.xsample.de/english/x_cdroms.htm

Their harp is outstanding too. I have a VSL harp, but I keep going back to the Xsample version. It's great for key-switching between open and stopped tones - very realistic performances.

Cheers
Heath

[Herman Witkam]

The Xsample vibrato cello is great!
I'm using it here:
http://www.herman-witkam.com/playlists/dissonata_pt_I_disorientation.m3u
http://www.herman-witkam.com/playlists/dissonata_pt_II_discomfort.m3u

Another lib you might want to look at is:
http://www.cosmod.net/soundbank/soundbank.html

Sonically I really like the harp as well.

[Alexcremers]

I find the looping of the X-Sample vibrato cello to be a bit annoying. Why, oh why did X-Sample have to loop so many instruments of their library? The harp, however, is the best thing they ever did! It's simply an ageless sample.

------------
Alex Cremers

[Herman Witkam]

You have to place them in the context of their time of release. I think they're looped really well, and gives the opportunity to adds lots more expression than with static samples. A great example is the brass disc. The material dry sounds like crap, but if you play it expressively it sounds great!

[composernyc]

The VSL Solo Strings really aren't THAT expensive when you look at what you're getting. And the quality is truly outstanding... the VSL continues to blow my mind. I've had the Solo STrings set for a while now and they're spectacular, especially when you put them into an Altiverb environment.

kerry

Kerry Muzzey
www.kerrymuzzey.com

[Rich Pell]

The Xsample vibrato cello is great!
I'm using it here:
http://www.herman-witkam.com/playlists/dissonata_pt_I_disorientation.m3u
http://www.herman-witkam.com/playlists/dissonata_pt_II_discomfort.m3u

Another lib you might want to look at is:
http://www.cosmod.net/soundbank/soundbank.html

Sonically I really like the harp as well.
Nice pieces Herman! Is that all x-sample? I like the trem strings...Rich

[Herman Witkam]

Thanks Rich!
Yeah, all the strings used are Xsample. The tremelos are really great indeed. You wouldn't believe they're looped.

Unfortunately the Xsample libraries don't always get the credit they deserve.

[Rich Pell]

Thanks Rich!
Yeah, all the strings used are Xsample. The tremelos are really great indeed. You wouldn't believe they're looped.

Unfortunately the Xsample libraries don't always get the credit they deserve.
Yea, i bought a couple of them , way back. I remember really liking the mallets and celeste at one point. I know theres lots of useful stuff there..Time to revisit ;) ..thanks, rich

[Rich Pell]

I like the cello in EWQLSO like Scott does.





Jose
Dittto that , the performances in the QLSO Solo Cello and violin can actually be quite emotional...Rich

[Tmon]

Donnie Christian has a very nice sounding solo cello. I know he sometimes seems like a bit of a kook at times, but the guy makes great sounding libs. I have his orch percussion lib and his celeste (downloadable) and they rock. check it out here:
http://www.donniechristianstudios.com/cello.htm

-T

[josejherring]

I like xsample. It aslo comes in Akai format. Good. I can import that into my Reason set-up. Cool.

Thanks guys.

Jose

[navidson]

Check out the Synful demo's Cello as well, I think it sounds wonderful.

[StrangeCat]

I like Miroslav solo samples both cd's the cello is great! But...even though GPO doesn't have as good a sounding cello the samples are more flexible with the mod wheel and key switching(the version I have of Miroslav solo instruments isn't that flexible). Still the Cello in Miroslav's solo instruments is well real LOL. I want to check out this Xsamples sometime. I never even heard of them.

[Theodor]

http://www.herman-witkam.com/playlists/dissonata_pt_I_disorientation.m3u
http://www.herman-witkam.com/playlists/dissonata_pt_II_discomfort.m3u


I really enjoyed those two compositions, i think they're amazing ! Well done Herman ! I think you just got me addicted to dissonant Music :)

[Joanne Babunovic]

I know I'll get booed off the stage, but AO, believe it or not, has a very nice solo cello. Nice natural trails and attack with no muss or fuss.

[dcoscina]

I agree with Scott on the section celli sounds- especially the legato/arco patches. Nice for giving long melodic lines to.

However, for biting downbows, I have found the celli section in particular a little lacking in EWQLSO. I have PRime Sounds Session Strings and they have a really good downbowed staccato and spiccato. Now, mind you they are smaller sections so there's greater detail. I also like the HALion String Ed. celli section too.

[Herman Witkam]

I really enjoyed those two compositions, i think they're amazing ! Well done Herman ! I think you just got me addicted to dissonant Music :)

Thanks Theo! I'm still working on the third part, since a Sonata always comes in 3, I figured a Dissonata would as well ;)

I started this composition as a dissonant piece, but I ended up with tonal music:
www.herman-witkam.com/sneaking_thru_the_catacombs.mp3
It also uses a lot of the Xsample cello (and double bass).

[MikeGraybill]

I know I'll get booed off the stage, but AO, believe it or not, has a very nice solo cello. Nice natural trails and attack with no muss or fuss.

Not too long ago I had to re-create some music I had lost based off of an mp3 of my own work. I was thinking... great! I've got waaay better sounds these days. For the most part it was true. Except for the cello. I tried the KH, VSL, Xsample and none sounded right, the way it was pulled off so lyrically when I first did it. Turns out it was the AO cello. That really was one of the better parts of that lib. Once I used it everything fell right back into place, even better than before.

Not that I'm saying the others are lesser obvioiusly, but in this case none of them could do the line the way AO could.

If it's a question of which lib to get, as much as I love the KH lib, I'd recomend the VSL, the cello is not the strongest aspect of the KH - it is very useful, but I find myself using other's as my mainstays.

[Theodor]

[QUOTE=Herman Witkam]I started this composition as a dissonant piece, but I ended up with tonal music:
www.herman-witkam.com/sneaking_thru_the_catacombs.mp3
QUOTE]

Thank you Herman ! I'm downloading it right now :)

[MDesigner]

Thanks for the suggestions.. I might consider the Xsample solo cello, but I'd have to hear more demos of it using sustain articulations.

And PS: Yes, Xsample harp does totally rock. I've never used the VSL harp, but I imagine Xsample comes in 2nd place after that one. It's incredible.

[Herman Witkam]

Thanks for the suggestions.. I might consider the Xsample solo cello, but I'd have to hear more demos of it using sustain articulations.

Check out the demo I posted above. It uses the sustain vibrato only.

[MDesigner]

Herman: You mean the Sneaking thru the Catacombs piece? The sustains aren't long enough.. I wanted to hear more drawn out and almost exclusive use of the cello to see how it holds up..

[Herman Witkam]

Herman: You mean the Sneaking thru the Catacombs piece? The sustains aren't long enough.. I wanted to hear more drawn out and almost exclusive use of the cello to see how it holds up..

Well, the cello sustains are looped, so after a few seconds they go into a loop. There are some longer notes in the other two demos, but here's a cello trio that has a lot of solo notes:
http://www.herman-witkam.com/cello_trio_3_in_a_minor.mp3

EDIT: Dan who? :D
But seriously, these should be great as well. Does anyone have a demo to share using Dan Dean solo strings?

[Bill]

Don't forget the Dan Dean Cello!

[Markus S]

I agree, the xsample cello is great. I think it is as good as the VSL solo cello, if not better. You also get a nice harpsichord with it.
On the other hand, with VSL, you pay a bit more and you get all instruments, all articulations and the performace set. Imagine you want your cello to play staccatos... Xsample is nice, but VSL will serve you longer and better, IMO.

[MDesigner]

Herman: Wow, the cello trio piece sounded really great. Thanks for posting that up!

[Herman Witkam]

Thanks Sam! ;)
I kind of improvised it together on the keyboard.
What I really like about this cello is the huge difference in attack between the F and P layers. It adds a great amount of realism.

[Alexcremers]

People, that vibrato sounds like a Lesley effect!

[josejherring]

People, that vibrato sounds like a Lesley effect!

So do most solo cellist.

Jose

[Herman Witkam]

People, that vibrato sounds like a Lesley effect!
hehehe. Well there's a sustain patch on another Xsample disc that allows you to add vibrato using the modwheel. That gives some more subtle results ;)

[JackB]

hehehe. Well there's a sustain patch on another Xsample disc that allows you to add vibrato using the modwheel. That gives some more subtle results ;)
Which disk has the cello with mod wheel vibrato control? Thank you!

[Herman Witkam]

That would be Vol.10
http://www.xsample.de/english/xpr10.htm

[MDesigner]

That would be Vol.10
http://www.xsample.de/english/xpr10.htm

Wait, I'm a little confused. You said there's "another" Xsample CD that has the modwheel vibrato.. and that's Vol 10. The cello is spread out over 2 CDs? I was under the impression the solo cello is on Vol 10 only.

[Bill]

5, 7 and 10

http://www.xsample.de/english/index.htm

[MDesigner]

5, 7 and 10

http://www.xsample.de/english/index.htm

Ah, interesting.

So all I really need for "legato" performance is volume 10, right? And that lets you use the mod wheel to control vibrato.

Looks like volume 5 just has effects and pizz on it, and volume 7 has just vibrato. Am I correct in these assumptions?

[Markus S]

Ah, interesting.

So all I really need for "legato" performance is volume 10, right? And that lets you use the mod wheel to control vibrato.

Looks like volume 5 just has effects and pizz on it, and volume 7 has just vibrato. Am I correct in these assumptions?

You can't compare the cello from volume 10 with the vibrato cello (volume 7), IMO. There is no natural vibrato on volume 10 (and no legato at all on both). The sound on 10 is very straight, and in a way sterile (they did this in purpose to create a more flexible sound). The other articulations, tremolo, harmonics, SFX are great on this volume. If you are looking only for a good sustained patch, better get only the vibrato cello.
Volume 5 (I believe) has all the pizzicato, staacato in it of all 4 instruments.

[Herman Witkam]

There is no natural vibrato on volume 10 (and no legato at all on both). The sound on 10 is very straight, and in a way sterile (they did this in purpose to create a more flexible sound).

I don't think Sam meant "true" legato, but just sustains. The more sterile sustains on Vol.10 can be used to create much more subtle vibrato that is progressive. Personally I've changed the modwheel settings so that the maximum vibrato setting matches the vibrato of the Cello patch on Vol.7.

Sam - Just have a look at the Xsample website again, it will probably clear things up for you: www.xsample.de

[Markus S]

I don't think Sam meant "true" legato, but just sustains. The more sterile sustains on Vol.10 can be used to create much more subtle vibrato that is progressive. Personally I've changed the modwheel settings so that the maximum vibrato setting matches the vibrato of the Cello patch on Vol.7.

Sam - Just have a look at the Xsample website again, it will probably clear things up for you: www.xsample.de

Yes, true, this is one advantage : "real" players use to play progressive Vibrato, adapted at the musical phrase. It is more "flexible". All I am saying is that I wouldn't buy the cello from volume 10 based on the demos of the vibrato cello from volume 7. The sound is very different. The natural vibrato is a strange thing, I have read an article on this once, it is very complexe and you can't recreate the feel of it with an artificial vibrato. As much as I like the sustaines of the vibrato cello I wouldn't recommand those of volume 10.

Best,
Markus.

[Not Dudley Simpson]

Sam

This is the bottom line: if you're going down the xsample route for solo cello, you'll need to buy all three CDs - vol 7 for vib sustains, vol 10 for non vib sustains, and vol 5 for pizz/stac and effects.

If you only buy vol 10 for the sustains, you might be disappointed because the artificial mod-wheel vibrato doesn't quite cut it, IMO. Vol 10's straight, non-vib tones are great but they are dead straight and need to be mixed with the vibrato cello on vol 10 for maximum realism.

Like I said before, it's a pity Xsample had to split the library apart like this, but at least you get a bunch of other very useful instruments on those CDs too.

Good luck
Heath

[peter269]

If it's a question of which lib to get, as much as I love the KH lib, I'd recomend the VSL, the cello is not the strongest aspect of the KH - it is very useful, but I find myself using other's as my mainstays.

Which KH Library are you talking about? The Concert String Cellos are excellent. Very big and wide, yet intimate. You have the full section with 12 cellos, then the chamber section with 6 cellos. And the cello in the solo strings is fantastic,especially when you consider you get a complete set of single layers for each instrument to customize your own sound.

In the Kontakt version of Concert Strings, you have control of attack and release using controllers 27 and 28 which you don't have in VSL.

I'm not sure I understand the basis of your comparison.