1812 Cannons

[cptexas]

I'm doing an 1812 thing and I've reached the point where I need the cannon sounds. I tried synthesizing up something, but it didn't come out all that great. Does anyone know where I can get good cannons?

Thanks,
-Chris

[Andrew Aversa]

I imagine your best bet would be in a sound effects library. I've heard nothing but good things about http://www.sounddogs.com/ - maybe you should start there?

[_naturalstudio_]

If you buy the Mercury Living Presence 1995 CD release of the 1812, you'll get some solo'd cannons and muskets on the track 2 (which also has some interesting commentary on the recording).

[FV]

Hi,

But this is probably not usable if it is for a commercial project. The recordings on that CD would be copyrighted in that case.

FV

[cptexas]

Thanks, guys!
I'll look into what y'all suggested! :)

-Chris

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Sounddogs.com

[Bruce A. Richardson]

At an outdoor concert, once upon a time, we fired shotgun blanks into a storm sewer.

From the "this is how we almost get expelled from college collection," my good friend Daniel Moore found a stash of glass 5-gallon water bottles next to a basement stairway offstage, and threw them all down the stairs during a performance of 1812.

Creativity is everything...

[Terry]

August, 1998, Montevideo, Uruguay

Paolo Esperanza, bass-trombonist with the Simphonica Mayor de Uruguay, in a misplaced moment of inspiration, decided to make his own contribution to the cannon shots fired as part of the orchestra's performance of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture at an outdoor children's concert. In complete seriousness, he placed a large, ignited firecracker, which was equivalent in strength to a quarter stick of dynamite, into his aluminum straight mute and then stuck the mute into the bell of his
quite new Yamaha in-line double-valve bass trombone.

Later, from his hospital bed he explained to a reporter through bandages on his mouth, "I thought that the bell of trombone would shield me from the explosion and instead, would focus the energy of the blast outwards and away from me, propelling the mute high above the orchestra, like a rocket." However, Paolo was not up on his propulsion physics nor qualified to use high-powered artillery and, in his haste to get the horn up before the firecracker went off, he failed to raise the horn high enough so as to give the mute enough arc to clear the orchestra. What actually happened should serve as a lesson to us all during those delirious moments of divine inspiration.

First, because he failed to sufficiently elevate the bell of his horn, the blast propelled the mute between rows of players in the woodwind and viola sections of the orchestra, missing the players and straight into the stomach of the conductor, driving him off the podium and directly into the front row of the audience. Fortunately, the audience were sitting in folding chairs and thus they were protected from serious injury, for the chairs collapsed under them, passing the energy of the impact of the flying conductor backwards into the row of people sitting behind them, who in turn were driven back into the people in the row behind and so on, like a row of dominos. The sound of collapsing wooden chairs and grunts of people falling on their behinds increased logarithmically, adding to the overall sound of cannons and brass playing as constitutes the closing measures of the Overture.

Meanwhile, all of this unplanned choreography notwithstanding, back on stage Paolo's Waterloo was still unfolding. According to Paolo, "Just as I heard the sound of the blast, time seemed to stand still. Everything moved in slow motion. Just before I felt searing pain to my mouth, I could swear I heard a voice with an Austrian accent say, "Fur every akshon zer iz un eekvul un opposeet reakshon!" Well, this should come as no surprise, for Paolo had set himself up for a textbook demonstration of this fundamental law of physics. Having failed to plug the lead pipe of his trombone, he allowed the energy of the blast to send a super heated jet of gas backwards through the mouth pipe of the trombone which exited the mouthpiece burning his lips and face.

The pyrotechnic ballet wasn't over yet. The force of the blast was so great it split the bell of his shiny Yamaha right down the middle, turning it inside out -- while at the same time propelling Paolo backwards off the riser. And for the grand finale, as Paolo fell backwards, he lost his grip on the slide of the trombone allowing the pressure of the hot gases coursing through the horn to propel the trombone's slide like a double golden spear into the head of the third clarinetist, knocking him unconscious.

The moral of the story? Beware the next time you hear someone in the trombone section yell out, "Hey, everyone, watch this!"

[ohernie]

Darwin Award's candidate?

Ernie

[belbin]

How 'bout pitching down a home-made capgun sample? Add some verb (maybe the cavernous concrete thing from the cyber kitchen...) and away you go!

[belbin]

August, 1998, Montevideo, Uruguay

Paolo Esperanza, bass-trombonist with the Simphonica Mayor de Uruguay, in a misplaced moment of inspiration, decided to make his own contribution to the cannon shots fired as part of the orchestra's performance of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture....

I saw an episode of Myth Busters where they tested that with everything from small firecrackers to C4. I think in the end with a huge balst they managed to propel the mute into the dummy conductor, but he himself didn't go far, and it took C4 to blow the bell apart.

Nice to hear some names and such. Lends creedence to the idea of it really happening. Any info on where to find out more?

Belbin

[Terry]

I can't imagine the story is really true, but I have been with enough crazy trombonists to imagine something like it happening.

I played with a throw together concert band for a block party on July 4th many years ago. We played 1812 and some guys thought it would be cool to use shotguns (loaded with blanks) and a 55 gallon oil drum. It makes a very effective cannon! The only problem was they shot it off about 10 feet behind me and I wasn't prepared for it. I jerked so much my mouthpiece came away from my lips and then came back and busted my lips. I bled for the rest of the 1812.

It makes a great cannon, just position it farther away from the band!

Terry

[cptexas]

It just occured to me that I don't really know what a real cannon sounds like. Every single recording of the 1812 that I own has their own distinct cannon sound.
This is the one I synthesized up. Tell me if it'll do.

http://cptexas0.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/cannon.mp3

-Chris

EDIT: sorry about the link. go to http://cptexas0.tripod.com/id2.html and click on 'cannon'.

EDIT: be careful. The lower frequencies are powerful. Don't blast it full blast at first.

[thesoundsmith]

Hollywood Edge has a whole CD of various gunfire samples, I believe an old-style cannon is one of them.

[chmara]

In years past I have seen 50 Gallon drums (one end out) fired into with shotgun Blanks 12 guage, A little tinny -- but in the right hall--- very loud and concise.

The problem with Canon is the same as with a 7'gong and a 6' gong. Actually each has a distinct sound. And since the 1812 was set with Black Powder in mind -- dinky little two pounders seem to have a different resonance than fully recoiled artillery -- such as the battery at West Point tried some years ago.

[pdNH]

Having stood within 100 feet of an 18th century 4 pound brass cannon being fired, I can tell you that you want them waaay off. So getting the right reverb is important. Also, the nature of how the thing is set off makes the exact moment of firing uncontrollable so I don't think metrically synchronized cannons are possible. Modern howitzers like the Boston Pops uses are different.

[ohernie]

Ah yes, another candidate for the R.A.W. collection ...

Ernie

[Hardy Heern]

It just occured to me that I don't really know what a real cannon sounds like. Every single recording of the 1812 that I own has their own distinct cannon sound.
This is the one I synthesized up. Tell me if it'll do.

http://cptexas0.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/cannon.mp3

-Chris

EDIT: sorry about the link. go to http://cptexas0.tripod.com/id2.html and click on 'cannon'.

EDIT: be careful. The lower frequencies are powerful. Don't blast it full blast at first.


Yes, that'll do fine! Good job.

Frank

[ohernie]

That's a good thing. I couldn't find any full size cannons on Ebay :rolleyes:

Ernie

[howardv]

I think these are the ones usually used by the FX guys...

http://www.bigbangcannons.com/catalog/cannons.cfm?prev=bangsite

Howard
Ragtime (http://www.rtpress.com) Press (http://www.rtpress.com)

[cptexas]

Any more suggestions? More crack? More boom? More bang? More rumble?

Thanks,
-Chris

[Bruce A. Richardson]

Well, any good whore will tell you that more crack is better.

It's not a bad synthesis. The "noise" component is serving well as simulation of the echo/reverb component, but is perhaps a little constant. It could also be that underneath the track, it would work just fine. I would try to combine it with some other sound, like maybe a stretched pistol shot, or something else to give it distinct echoes. The sound we associate with cannons is far less about the cannon, and far more about the "impulse response" of the area in which it is being fired. Much like the sound of thunder, which is a single "impulse" followed by the response of a broad stretch of land...which is why "city" thunder sounds so loud and immediate, and "country" thunder sounds so huge and immensely spread out. Even drums, unless mic'ed point blank, are much more made up of the reflections of the area they're in than of themselves.

The idea of cannons in 1812, or of this kind of programmatic effect in any piece of music, is to simulate the sounds of battle. Therefore, it is probably helpful to consider the cannons an almost separate sound design which dovetails with orchestral scoring of the "battle."

There are several explosions in Hollywood Edge which would do nicely in the context of an 1812 type piece. I'm sure, as mentioned before, you could find some good ones on SoundDogs.com, and since you purchase FX by the length of time on that site, cannons would be a cheaper buy than longer tracks of ambient content, etc. Probably just a few bucks for a lifetime license to the sound, which is not a bad deal.

[cptexas]

Well, any good whore will tell you that more crack is better.

It's not a bad synthesis. The "noise" component is serving well as simulation of the echo/reverb component, but is perhaps a little constant. It could also be that underneath the track, it would work just fine. I would try to combine it with some other sound, like maybe a stretched pistol shot, or something else to give it distinct echoes. The sound we associate with cannons is far less about the cannon, and far more about the "impulse response" of the area in which it is being fired. Much like the sound of thunder, which is a single "impulse" followed by the response of a broad stretch of land...which is why "city" thunder sounds so loud and immediate, and "country" thunder sounds so huge and immensely spread out. Even drums, unless mic'ed point blank, are much more made up of the reflections of the area they're in than of themselves.

The idea of cannons in 1812, or of this kind of programmatic effect in any piece of music, is to simulate the sounds of battle. Therefore, it is probably helpful to consider the cannons an almost separate sound design which dovetails with orchestral scoring of the "battle."

There are several explosions in Hollywood Edge which would do nicely in the context of an 1812 type piece. I'm sure, as mentioned before, you could find some good ones on SoundDogs.com, and since you purchase FX by the length of time on that site, cannons would be a cheaper buy than longer tracks of ambient content, etc. Probably just a few bucks for a lifetime license to the sound, which is not a bad deal.
Thank you, Bruce!
That was extremely helpful! :)

-Chris