Best Woodwinds?

[dlang77]

I am trying to decide in which direction to go with solo woodwinds. Here are the ones I have narrowed it down do with a demo that I like from the library.

It would be great to get other users perspective on these demos... :D


Westgate Woodwinds:

http://www.westgatestudios.com/woodwind_choir.mp3



Dan Dean Solo Woodwinds: (I like the Holst demo on this page)

http://www.dandeanpro.com/sample_lib/products/3_DDSWW_GS/products3_DDSWW_GS.html



VSL Woodwinds:

http://vsl.co.at/admin/downloader.asp?file=/data/Sounds/MP3/HT_woodwinds_ensemble.mp3




DC Studios Solo Woodwinds:

http://www.donniechristianstudios.com/mp3demos/UnhatchedChicks.mp3



So how would you rate these libraries?



Regards,


Daniel

[Marcussen]

Well... dont know about the demos. They are very different, and therfore very hard to compare. But VSL woodwinds are absolutely fantastic, especialy because of their Legatos. Cant beat it. :)

[Daryl]

Well... dont know about the demos. They are very different, and therfore very hard to compare. But VSL woodwinds are absolutely fantastic, especialy because of their Legatos. Cant beat it. :)
Agreed. Make sure that you get the French Oboe though.

Daryl

[JonFairhurst]

I own Westgate and the VSL samples that come with GS3.

Westgate is a great value. Its only real weakness is in fast legato runs.

VSL's legato clarinet demo sure is fun to play, but they haven't separated me from my money yet...

GS3.1 has a new legato iMIDI rule. I'm hoping that I can apply it to the Westgate winds. We will see...

Regarding sound, the VSL stuff in GS3 is super clean. Westgate's stuff is grittier, not that it's badly recorded, you can just sense the player a bit more in Westgate. VSL's samples almost sound too perfect. Almost, that is. In practice they don't sound robotic or anything. I like both.

The sound of each is unique, and both work well in practice. I guess I'd have to choose Westgate's human sound for exposed solo lines (aside from the lack of legato), and VSL for use as part of a larger orchestra.

I want the legato of VSL with the price of Westgate. ;)

-JF

[jloeb]

At the risk of sounding like a an employee of Synful (i'm not, nor do i even know any), i'll just say this: Listen to this link-

http://synful.com/Sounds/Synful_Plays_Rite_of_Spring.mp3

and tell me if any of those libraries could do better. And leave aside for the moment the fact that you can supposedly achieve this kind of articulation in something close to real time (!!!).

I'm still at a loss as to why Synful isn't absolutely dominating any library discussion having to do with solo instruments. The thing is mind-blowing- I'm practically drooling as i await its release for OSX.

[A_Sapp]

Synful is great, but not quite there yet. I think one thing that would really help is if they found some way to automatically implement key clicks, breath noises, ect. The tone is there, but the transition from note to note sounds synthy - TO ME.

[JonFairhurst]

Wow. The legato of the oboe is almost *too* smooth. I've never said that about any purely sampled instrument.

-JF

[Markus S]

Hi,

The xsample woods might be worth to mention. I especially like their Bassclarinet. The have a complete set of WW (bundle) you might find for not so exensive.

Good luck,
Markus.

[belbin]

Keep in mind that the VSL ww ensebles are just that ENSEMBLES. If you're looking for solos, look elsewhere. I just got the westgate winds, and am happy so far. I also tried stacking them with the winds bundled with GS3. This approach lets you play either or both, and that, to me, is an attractive idea.

Belbin

[Dietz]

This is not true. Our Library offers solo-woodwinds as extensive as ensembles (and even more). Please take a glance at the complete listings on our site.

[JonFairhurst]

Keep in mind that the VSL ww ensebles are just that ENSEMBLES. If you're looking for solos, look elsewhere. I just got the westgate winds, and am happy so far. I also tried stacking them with the winds bundled with GS3. This approach lets you play either or both, and that, to me, is an attractive idea.

BelbinBelbin,

I think that the VSL woodwinds that ship with GS3 Orchestra are solo only. Strings are ensemble only and Brass is solo and ensemble.

Stacking the GS3-VSL woodwinds with Westgate and running through GigaPulse is a nice way to do ensembles though. I will check it out this weekend!

-JF

[Markus S]

This is not true. Our Library offers solo-woodwinds as extensive as ensembles (and even more). Please take a glance at the complete listings on our site.

Hello Dietz,

are they still bundled with the brass -- do you plan any seperate release?

Thanks,
Markus.

[Tomke]

I would also agree that VSL fit very nicely as solo instruments. It all depends on what samples from the vast VSL lib you are listening to, of course. But for me, this is one of the foremost reasons I went VSL: it is the only lib I've tried to date where you can use the instruments BOTH in solo and ensemble instrument without feeling that it sounds radically better in one of the two environments. All other libs that I've tried have a clear tendency of sounding better as either solo or ensemble - but not both. Feeling free of those concerns frees me of alot of investment- and sound/instrument organizing trouble.

[MDesigner]

I think VSL woodwinds are the best, no contest. The performance legato is the main element that really sells it. I've got the legato clarinet demo that comes with GS3 Orchestra, and it's incredible. It's actually VERY satisfying to just sit there and play it idly, not to mention compose with it!

As far as using iMidi on Westgate: I don't think that's possible. iMidi follows nearly the same structure as the VSL legato samples. So the samples would have to have every interval recorded, and assigned to the proper keyswitches, etc., just like VSL samples. (I wonder if VSL has publically released instructions on how to create legato samples according to their specs? Otherwise how are developers supposed to develop iMidi legato samples for GS3? I suppose you could sit down and figure it out..)

[belbin]

This is not true. Our Library offers solo-woodwinds as extensive as ensembles (and even more). Please take a glance at the complete listings on our site.

Sorry, Dietz. It was rash of me make a statement like that based on the title (which, believe it or not was the mistake I made) without investigating first.

Knowing that, I shall now proceed to investigate the library in question.

Again, sincerest apologies.


Belbin

[belbin]

To clarify for JF and Dietz:

I was referring to VSL's "Woodwind Ensembles", which, by its title (as well as by its section on vsl.co.at) is a library of ensemble samples. Turns out I was right....misleading perhaps, but right.

Jon, you're absolutely right. The Vienna giga symphony stuff is indeed solo.
And D: I'm aware that the VSL does do solo winds, but (at least I thought) someone recommended VSL's woodwind ensembles library, and I felt the need to save the buyer from a mistaken purchase, since it was clear that they actually were looking for solo winds.

Anyway, I guess I should've worded my reply more carefully. Like, "Don't get VSL's Woodwind Ensembles if it's solo winds you're after. Get VSL's Brass and Woodwinds"...or something like that.

I hope no one (Especially no one from VSL) thinks I was attemting to do any damage. I assure you this was not the case.

I also hope I'm not overreacting.

I apologize one final time, and bow out, my two cents being twice paid, explained, and atoned for.

Belbin

[JonFairhurst]

As far as using iMidi on Westgate: I don't think that's possible. iMidi follows nearly the same structure as the VSL legato samples...

Sam,

That's true for GS3.04, but GS3.1 has some new iMIDI rules that we will get to play with, once it's released. I saw 3.1 at NAB in April, and a new legato rule was one of the additions.

They told me that the new rule is much simpler than the VSL legato rule, but I don't know if it can be applied to older libs that don't include any special/transition samples.

Hopefully, we will find out soon...

-JF

[MDesigner]

Sam,

That's true for GS3.04, but GS3.1 has some new iMIDI rules that we will get to play with, once it's released. I saw 3.1 at NAB in April, and a new legato rule was one of the additions.

They told me that the new rule is much simpler than the VSL legato rule, but I don't know if it can be applied to older libs that don't include any special/transition samples.

Hopefully, we will find out soon...

-JF

Awesome.. thanks for the news, Jon!

[Markus S]

What I personally find disturbing about the VSL woods is that you will have to buy all the brass with it, and in addition, if you want the legato instruments, all the performance set, which means all the orchestra performances. If you buy Opus1 for the winds (to get a little bit of the legato too) you still get lots of sounds around you are not necessarily interested in.
If you could just get the woods I would have bought them for sure.
Same goes for the string section. You can't add just the legato instruments to your pro edition, you will have to buy all the performance instruments, which is about 128 GB and 6.000 euros, if I remember right.
I which they would arrange those earlier products the way they arrange the newer horizon series. You buy all the woods, and get the legato with it (same for the other orchestral section), so "split" those older libs.

Markus.

[newmewzikboy]

With respect to MarcusS post, we didn't put in the cost parameter in the discussion. VSL is expensive for my budget. I have DanDean, which was relatively affordable. What else is in line? How would you map these by cost/quality?

[dlang77]

Here's an update. I was able to just buy the solo flute from DC Studios and it is absolutely outstanding. It was a rather large download but for $99 it was instant gratification! It even comes with real key clicks and breathe sounds. It was great to buy just one instrument to get the vibe of the whole library. I think I will get the rest of this library down the road.

This is the demo that sold me on it.

http://www.donniechristianstudios.com/mp3demos/Syrinx.mp3


I see that Dan Dean sells his instruments individually as well. I may pick up his contra bassoon which the DC woodwinds do not have.


Regards,

Daniel

[MDesigner]

Back on the iMidi Legato topic real quick.. it just occurred to me that SAM Trumpets has full intervals recorded. I'd definitely spend the hours needed to convert it into a perf. legato sample!

PS, the instructions for creating your own legato instrument are in the GS3 manual, pages 118-119.

[newmewzikboy]

I believe donnie also did the London Solo Strings, which I just purchased. If the ww are as good as the strings, and London Percussion, they are worth every penny.

[Dietz]

To clarify for JF and Dietz:

I was referring to VSL's "Woodwind Ensembles", which, by its title (as well as by its section on vsl.co.at) is a library of ensemble samples. Turns out I was right....misleading perhaps, but right.

Jon, you're absolutely right. The Vienna giga symphony stuff is indeed solo.
And D: I'm aware that the VSL does do solo winds, but (at least I thought) someone recommended VSL's woodwind ensembles library, and I felt the need to save the buyer from a mistaken purchase, since it was clear that they actually were looking for solo winds.

Anyway, I guess I should've worded my reply more carefully. Like, "Don't get VSL's Woodwind Ensembles if it's solo winds you're after. Get VSL's Brass and Woodwinds"...or something like that.

I hope no one (Especially no one from VSL) thinks I was attemting to do any damage. I assure you this was not the case.

I also hope I'm not overreacting.

I apologize one final time, and bow out, my two cents being twice paid, explained, and atoned for.

Belbin

Don't worry, Belbin - I was just trying to make a short correction without sounding like an advertisement. No offense taken.

BTW - I'm known to sound sarcastic, but I don't bite :-)

All the best,

[gugliel]

Here's a vote for Dan Dean woodwinds. Extremely comprehensive programming, beautiful tuning, very good samples, complete group of instruments (english horn, contra-bassoon, etc). Good ranges. Clear names (no EWQL 'butter' or GOS 'rich' to interpret...).

A few drawbacks: No fancy articulations, no flutter tongue, no key clicks.
The flute is the weakest individual instrument, imo, it is a kind of breathy non-classical flute. The others, excellent.